When am I out of film? 16mm question

[James Gordon]

Im shooting my first roll of 50D film in a Krasnogorsk K3 16mm camera.

 

How do I know when I have run out of film? On a still camera it is obvious when you've run out.

 

Do i just need to open it in pitch black to see if there is still film passing through? Or should i monitor the film counter in the future?

I don't see any other way of knowing, because the camera sounds and functions the same with or without film.

 

Thanks

[Kenny N Suleimanagich]

You can wear a stopwatch and run it every time you run the camera. When you approach 2m 45s, you'll know you're about to run out.

[Stephen Timpe]

Load a dummy reel and learn the sounds - you will be to tell when the film ends

[James Gordon]

Load a dummy reel and learn the sounds - you will be to tell when the film ends

 

ok but i have film in there now. what can i do?

[Bill DiPietra]

I've never used the K3, but listen to the camera. When you're out, you should be able to hear the film strip bounce against the spool - with a rather high pitch - before it makes its way to the take-up spool. It sounds like a little "ping."

[Brian Drysdale]

The footage counter is the usual method of knowing where you are on a roll of film.

 

Usually you can hear the end of the film going through the gate.

[Josh Gladstone]

On a shoot with a camera crew, your camera assistant would be working with the script supervisor to keep track of the lengths of each take, to make sure that you're reloading at the right time and not rolling-out mid shot. Other than that, most cameras have a footage counter that shows you how much footage is left. And like everyone else has mentioned, you should be able to hear the difference. Especially with an MOS camera.

[James Gordon]

On a shoot with a camera crew, your camera assistant would be working with the script supervisor to keep track of the lengths of each take, to make sure that you're reloading at the right time and not rolling-out mid shot. Other than that, most cameras have a footage counter that shows you how much footage is left. And like everyone else has mentioned, you should be able to hear the difference. Especially with an MOS camera.

 

 

if i open it up in pitch black, can i safely check it?

[Satsuki Murashige]

For right now, open the camera in a changing bag, dark room or similar pitch black area and feel if the take up spool is loose or taut. If it is loose, then you have rolled out and finished the roll.

 

If you don't have such an area and can only check in subdued light, then roll the camera for 5 seconds or so and then open the camera. Because the K3 uses what are known as Daylight Spools, the design of the spool allows you to load and unload the film in subdued lighting and only flash the exposed bits at the end. You may get some flashed edges on a few feet previous due to the film not sitting in the spool perfectly, which is why you should roll a few feet of tails before you open the camera.

 

Obviously, don't do this with normal 400' rolls of film that don't have Daylight Spools or you will flash the entire roll.

 

In the future, just check the footage counter and get used to the noise of the camera with and without film. As you get closer to the end of the roll, anticipate the film rolling out and keep your head next to the camera. You'll definitely be able to hear the film roll out, there's an audible difference.

[Jeff L'Heureux]

I'm unfamiliar with the operation of the K3, but is the lens permanently affixed to the body? Couldn't you simply take off the lens and look for film in gate to see if you've run out or not?

[James Gordon]

I'm unfamiliar with the operation of the K3, but is the lens permanently affixed to the body? Couldn't you simply take off the lens and look for film in gate to see if you've run out or not?

some good responses, thank you guys.

 

this would be ideal, and no, you are able to remove the lenses..it is an m42 pentax screw mount.

[Aapo Lettinen]

the easiest way is to take out the lens so you can see the gate. the K3 pressure plate has those silvery metal stripes so it's pretty clear if you have any film left or not.

 

as others said, you can usually hear when the film end runs through the gate and the camera sound also changes when it is running without film

[Mark Dunn]

I'm unfamiliar with the operation of the K3, but is the lens permanently affixed to the body? Couldn't you simply take off the lens and look for film in gate to see if you've run out or not?

That's lateral thinking, that is.

Unprocessed film looks brownish (colour) or greenish (b/w) on the emulsion side.

[James Gordon]

the easiest way is to take out the lens so you can see the gate. the K3 pressure plate has those silvery metal stripes so it's pretty clear if you have any film left or not.

 

as others said, you can usually hear when the film end runs through the gate and the camera sound also changes when it is running without film

do i need to run the shutter to check? or would it always be visible? I'm not sure what im looking for... i have the lens off now.

 

Also, when all film has been used does it end up completely on the take-up spool? I'm not sure how to properly retrieve the film before i go process it.

Edited June 10, 2015 by James Gordon

[Brian Drysdale]

You just run the camera for a moment, you'll see the film emulsion if you've still got stock left, as against seeing the pressure plate, which I gather is silver on this camera. If you don't run the camera you usually only see the shutter..

 

The film goes onto to the take up spool, you remove this from the camera in subdued light, put it in the can that your film came in. Write up the details on the can and sent it off to the lab together with other reports etc remembering to put on your name and address.

[Satsuki Murashige]

Doesn't the K3 have a prism viewfinder? If so, then you may not be able to see the film since the prism is permanently in the way. The film emulsion is a tan color, if you rolled out you would just see the metal of the pressure plate. This would be the easiest way to check if you had a reflex viewfinder with a mirror shutter. Otherwise, you may have to open up the camera body.

 

Once you roll out, the film will automatically end up on the take up spool, you just lift the spool out and put it back in the box it came in. Do this in the dark if you want to save the last few feet of film on the roll. Otherwise, unloading in subdued lighting is fine, you'll just end up flashing the last few feet. The box is light-tight and there's an adhesive strip on the top that you use seal the box for shipping. I always put 1" black camera (gaffer) tape on top of the seal to indicate to the lab that there is exposed film inside and to prevent anyone from accidentally opening it.

[James Gordon]

Doesn't the K3 have a prism viewfinder? If so, then you may not be able to see the film since the prism is permanently in the way. The film emulsion is a tan color, if you rolled out you would just see the metal of the pressure plate. This would be the easiest way to check if you had a reflex viewfinder with a mirror shutter. Otherwise, you may have to open up the camera body.

 

Once you roll out, the film will automatically end up on the take up spool, you just lift the spool out and put it back in the box it came in. Do this in the dark if you want to save the last few feet of film on the roll. Otherwise, unloading in subdued lighting is fine, you'll just end up flashing the last few feet. The box is light-tight and there's an adhesive strip on the top that you use seal the box for shipping. I always put 1" black camera (gaffer) tape on top of the seal to indicate to the lab that there is exposed film inside and to prevent anyone from accidentally opening it.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you all for the advice and tips, this is a great forum. I ran the camera and looked through the prism and confirmed my roll was over. Saw the pressure plate. I'll have to read up on how to use the film counter in the future. Thanks to the above poster for the tips on packaging it, i will do this. Thank you all

Edited June 11, 2015 by James Gordon

[Bill DiPietra]

Thank you all for the advice and tips, this is a great forum. I ran the camera and looked through the prism and confirmed my roll was over. Saw the pressure plate. I'll have to read up on how to use the film counter in the future. Thanks to the above poster for the tips on packaging it, i will do this. Thank you all

 

On behalf of myself and everyone else who responded...you're welcome! And welcome to the forum! :)

[Kenny N Suleimanagich]

Doesn't the K3 have a prism viewfinder? If so, then you may not be able to see the film since the prism is permanently in the way. The film emulsion is a tan color, if you rolled out you would just see the metal of the pressure plate. This would be the easiest way to check if you had a reflex viewfinder with a mirror shutter. Otherwise, you may have to open up the camera body.

 

 

Actually, the K3 is a mirror-reflex camera.

[Simon Wyss]

The Krasnogorsk-3 has a film lenght indicator that works with an arm riding on the supply roll. At the back of the camera, through a window, you can read the film length in 5 meter increments. The K-3 is the weirdest camera for 16-mm. film, it has a mirror-shutter reflex viewfinder as a professional feature but not a frame, not even a mechanical foot counter. This lack puts the camera down among the point-and-shoot products. It’s a Platypus.

[James Gordon]

Doesn't the K3 have a prism viewfinder? If so, then you may not be able to see the film since the prism is permanently in the way. The film emulsion is a tan color, if you rolled out you would just see the metal of the pressure plate. This would be the easiest way to check if you had a reflex viewfinder with a mirror shutter. Otherwise, you may have to open up the camera body.

 

Once you roll out, the film will automatically end up on the take up spool, you just lift the spool out and put it back in the box it came in. Do this in the dark if you want to save the last few feet of film on the roll. Otherwise, unloading in subdued lighting is fine, you'll just end up flashing the last few feet. The box is light-tight and there's an adhesive strip on the top that you use seal the box for shipping. I always put 1" black camera (gaffer) tape on top of the seal to indicate to the lab that there is exposed film inside and to prevent anyone from accidentally opening it.

 

 

The take up spool that came with my k-3 had teeth inside that caught the film. The leftover reel from my 50D does not. So do I just use the leftover film reel as my new take up spool? In other words, do people just recycle the spool as they go?

[Bill DiPietra]

In other words, do people just recycle the spool as they go?

 

Yup.

[Mark Dunn]

The slot will grip the film perfectly well. Just push through a few frames.

[D.Edwards]

I also shot some 50D in a Super 16 K-3 this August in a 36 Deg C. European heatwave!

Great forum advice from all of the above but to help anyone else with this camera, these were my experiences:

 

Always use a Kodak empty daylight spool as a take-up. I initially used a Russian one and the flange tolerances were different. It caused a poor pack on the take-up and about 60 feet into the film I had to put the camera in a changing bag and manually wind the build-up of slack back onto the take-up. Fortunately not a scratch on the result. You can hear when it does this very easily and I had no problems once I used a Kodak take-up.

 

The film counter is a pain - I am currently working on a system to detect and alert that the feed spool is no longer rotating, as a clear indication that the film has run out. As a quick solution I used the camera in single frame mode with the lens off and looked at the gate, just as others have suggested.

 

In Super 16 and a re-entered lens, you will get corner vignetting at 17mm, it is a shame that the stock lens is not wider. Adapting lenses is a pain for this camera. You can't just put on a 16mm C mount lens with an M42 thread adaptor. The Meteor Zoom, that the camera comes with, protrudes into the body quite a bit for the back focus to be correct.

 

But on the plus side, the results from 50D were actually very good in this camera. Although scratch free, there was slight vertical cyclic jitter that is correctable in post, but many of the shots could have almost come from an Arri BL. Not quite prime lens detail but certainly close enough at some lens angles. I forgot to stop-down (in searing sunlight) after focusing for one shot and overexposed massively. Amazingly, once scanned and graded you would not know. Try that with digital cameras!

 

The internal light meter can be powered with a 675ZA hearing aid battery (you need to pack the extra space out a bit with metal washers) This worked very well and I could not fault the exposure. Even if you accidentally leave the light meter switched on overnight, it does not seem to drain the battery.