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Brute Lights? Dino lights?


Joshua Hesami
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If the window is only 3x3ft wouldn't a 20x20 bounce be a bit too much? Couldn't I use a smaller bounce positioned outside the window. Something like a 4x8 poly or two 4x8 polys, because they are more lightweight and easier to rig than a big frame (if I don't have a lift). 

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1 hour ago, Boris Kalaidjiev said:

Appo thanks for your reply! 

If I am understanding you correctly you would put a big 20x20 bounce above the window and hit with an HMI from underneath to bounce it into the room and have the Dino separately hit directly inside. 

Why would you need to move the 20x20? I am thinking that between 11-3pm you could probably also use the bounce to cut the sun light from hitting around the window area, so its both a cutter and a bounce. 

The production budget is limited and I am not sure if they would be able afford to rent 2 lifts. Do you think it will look weird if I shot Night for Day only with the Dino without the HMI and the bounce. Would everything look to orange and not realistic?

 

Thanks!

oh I misread that your window is about 12x12'  .  if the window would be large you would not necessarily get even enough "ambience" from a single 20x20 and would need to either move it around for some shots to get the effect you want or to use two bounces instead of one to get large enough source so that it doesn't need to be moved.

So it is one small window then?    probably a 12x12 bounce would be good for it I believe.

Yes the idea is to have the hmi on ground and use the lift for the frame only to get it over the window and at an appropriate angle so that the hmi light bounces nicely to the window.

It depends on the shot whether the ambience is super important or not. Personally I would try to get at least some kind of cold ambience to sell the "daylight" better... people tend to judge it being a night scene if there is a single light coming from the window but no ambience is involved.

Maybe you could arrange the ambience light or bounce to the same lift than the dino if it's impossible to get two lifts. The ambience would then come from non-ideal angle but it would be much better than no ambience at all.

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normally the frame is tilted by tilting the whole bucket instead of trying to adjust the angle of the frame from the mounting points. So it is not ideal to mount the dino on the same lift but if non-ideal bounce angle is enough and you have more time to adjust the dino, then it should be possible to mount the 12x12 over the bucket and the dino underside of it to get the ambience a little higher. It is more time consuming to adjust the dino then and if it starts to get windy the dino light may move a little which might show in the final image...

Another option would be mount smaller 'ambience lights' on the bucket and hope that you can get them soft enough to sell the effect. It MIGHT work using something like an array of multiple Kinos or an Airstar for this but never tested it

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if wanting to do it very cheaply you could mount a silk 8x8 frame on one side of the bucket and turn some of the dino bulbs to go to this frame through a ctb frame which would make the 'cold ambience light' when the rest of the dino bulbs are shining directly to the window to create the 'direct sunlight' .  This is time consuming to get working correctly but it might look pretty OK and is cheap to do if you just have time for setting it up and the low ambience angle does not matter

Edited by aapo lettinen
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On 10/9/2017 at 9:56 PM, Adam Frisch FSF said:

Shooting a big set on stage with lots of windows, on multiple floors. Need to be able to emulate the sun coming in in, reaching deep into the set. But due to spacing and a tight studio, I have only about 6ft of space outside each window. If I go with a single source, like an HMI or big tungsten unit to emulate sun coming in, due to how close the units will have to be to the windows, the light will spread enormously. This is always a dead giveaway as sunlight has more parallel beams. By using a much bigger source (ideally bigger than the windows themselves), you can "cheat" the fact that the source feels further away as the beams will be closer to parallel. The multiple shadows is normally not a desired look, but when shooting through windows like this, sometimes those little fringy shadows can just look like a mullion shadow, so you can get away with it. I'll see if I lightly diffuse it, or if go raw.

Besides the beautiful warm tungsten look, one advantage of multi-globe fixtures like Dinos is that if you have to shine them through a window with a lot of frames or blinds, or even a tree branch, the light tends to bleed and wrap around obstructions so you don’t have dead spots that you have to shift the light around to get through.

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Aapo thanks for the advice. 

I was thinking just now, wouldn't I be able to just punch an HMI (or something that's daylight) inside the room and bring up the ambiance a little bit like that (the sky light in the room), instead of bouncing daylight through the window? 

 

I have attached a crude lighting plan of what I mean. I've numbered the lights for the diffrent set-ups:

1) This is the set-up that you mentioned. Having the dino on 1 lift and having the bounce around the window on a second lift and an HMI punching into it. 

2) Not having any daylight come through the window but instead bounce a Day light source into a wall or the ceiling to give it the daylight non directional light in the room (skylight). 

Wouldn't this second approach look the same as the first and be cheaper, because I wont be renting a second lift and it will be a faster set-up? Of course it limits the camera angles but my angle is only shooting from the toilet into the bedroom, so that's not much of a problem for me.  

Bedroom lighting plan.jpg

On 8/30/2021 at 5:15 AM, David Mullen ASC said:

Besides the beautiful warm tungsten look, one advantage of multi-globe fixtures like Dinos is that if you have to shine them through a window with a lot of frames or blinds, or even a tree branch, the light tends to bleed and wrap around obstructions so you don’t have dead spots that you have to shift the light around to get through.

 

David if I had set-up some branches outside the window wouldn't the Dino cast multiple shadows because of its many sources?

 

Thanks!

Edited by Boris Kalaidjiev
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14 minutes ago, Boris Kalaidjiev said:

Aapo thanks for the advice. 

I was thinking just now, wouldn't I be able to just punch an HMI (or something that's daylight) inside the room and bring up the ambiance a little bit like that (the sky light in the room), instead of bouncing daylight through the window? 

 

I have attached a crude lighting plan of what I mean. I've numbered the lights for the diffrent set-ups:

1) This is the set-up that you mentioned. Having the dino on 1 lift and having the bounce around the window on a second lift and an HMI punching into it. 

2) Not having any daylight come through the window but instead bounce a Day light source into a wall or the ceiling to give it the daylight non directional light in the room (skylight). 

Wouldn't this second approach look the same as the first and be cheaper, because I wont be renting a second lift and it will be a faster set-up? Of course it limits the camera angles but my angle is only shooting from the toilet into the bedroom, so that's not much of a problem for me.  

Bedroom lighting plan.jpg

 

David if I had set-up some branches outside the window wouldn't the Dino cast multiple shadows because of its many sources?

 

Thanks!

yes it would work if you don't see the area near the window in any of the shots. It does not look the same but it is close enough if your main area of interest is the light pattern on the back wall and you are not shooting multiple angles inside the room.

Another cheap approach would be to mount a daylight balanced led mat or a kino over the window inside so that it creates a cold softer light which is going from the window direction. If the room is small enough you could use a autopole over the window to hang the led mat or kino over the table

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58 minutes ago, aapo lettinen said:

yes it would work if you don't see the area near the window in any of the shots. It does not look the same but it is close enough if your main area of interest is the light pattern on the back wall and you are not shooting multiple angles inside the room.

Another cheap approach would be to mount a daylight balanced led mat or a kino over the window inside so that it creates a cold softer light which is going from the window direction. If the room is small enough you could use a autopole over the window to hang the led mat or kino over the table

Thank you!

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