Where to buy diffusion and gels in UK

[Brian Drysdale]

I must say that I've seen more C stands on productions over the years, however, there are many productions that are pretty basic in their lighting equipment and you're lucky to have a decent choice of lights because the production company is providing the kit

 

The C stands are most commonly seen with KinoFlos mounted on them.

 

In the UK the C stands are more likely to be on the lighting truck than the grip truck because the division of work is different.

[Freya Black]

A C stand is just a stand that has a small footprint, making it very useful in a cramped studio. The design of the legs makes it possible to 'stack' the stands very close together, which is useful if you need to set multiple flags, nets or frames in a tight space. If space isn't an issue, then a combo stand provides better stability and a higher load rating.

 

I want to quote this again because this is where we started. Ironically (and I too admit this is a weird thread here) this was posted by Stuart and I think it sums things up really well and explains why I see the c-stands in use so rarely. I found this really helpful because I read it and thought "Yes it all makes sense now".

 

C-stands are just not always the best tool for every project and it's that suggestion that has really upset people but this description makes it clear why.

 

Freya

[Robin R Probyn]

But isn't cutting flare off the lens still the job of the AC.. I haven't worked in the UK for a long time .. but I don't think mattbox design has advanced to the point where it can flag off flare completely.. this was always done with flags on C stands.. or that every flare now considered art.. :)..

Edited February 16, 2016 by Robin R Probyn

[Stuart Brereton]

Right from the start I have been clear that people are choosing not to use them because there are more suitable tools for the kind of lighting that is being done on lower budgets. Combo stands for example. They may not even be thinking "lets leave the c-stands on the truck" but just taking the things from the truck that they need to get the job done as fast as possible which may often not include c-stands.

 

C-stands are just not always the best tool for every project

 

 

Freya, the only thing that you've said consistently is that you've never seen c-stands used, yet apparently you feel qualified to comment on what the best uses for them are and why people are 'choosing' not to use them.

 

C-stands don't get 'left on the truck'. They are staged close to set, either stacked upright, or on a cart, so that the electricians can grab them quickly. That's why they are the most commonly used stand. Combo stands do generally get left on the truck, because they're big and heavy, and electricians don't like big, heavy stands unless they need one for a lamp. Lamp stands are used in fairly specific ways by G&E crews, and they don't just randomly choose whatever stand happens to be nearest. A 3 ton package might contain 8 or 10 combos, 4 baby stands, a pair of high rollers for large frames, and 20-30 c-stands, amongst others.

 

Now perhaps, the shoots you're talking about don't have a G&E crew, or a truck. Perhaps every light is sitting on a kit stand. In those instances, people may well make do with whatever is at hand, but I was quite specifically talking about shows that have a proper, professional lighting crew.

[Phil Rhodes]

Well, ain't that the rub.

 

I suspect one could go around London giving £50 notes to anyone even vaguely describable as a cameraman who actually had a grip and electric department worthy of the name and not spend too much money.

 

Seriously, Stuart - when's the last time you did a job where every piece of technical equipment was yours, that you'd had to buy, with your money?

 

P

[Freya Black]

 

Freya, the only thing that you've said consistently is that you've never seen c-stands used, yet apparently you feel qualified to comment on what the best uses for them are and why people are 'choosing' not to use them.

 

Nope I specifically said a few posts back that I WASN'T qualified to talk about the best uses for c-stands. I also just made it clear that I was going on what you wrote on the matter which I thought was quite clear and straightforward. I didn't write that stuff about what c-stands are best used for I was quoting you from the start of the thread because it seemed like a good description.

I was like "that makes total sense to me".

[Freya Black]

Now perhaps, the shoots you're talking about don't have a G&E crew, or a truck. Perhaps every light is sitting on a kit stand. In those instances, people may well make do with whatever is at hand, but I was quite specifically talking about shows that have a proper, professional lighting crew.

 

 

I have mentioned a BBC shoot I was on a number of times that had both a lighting and camera truck that were fully equipped and no they didn't have the c-stands waiting to one side ready to go. I'm sure there were c-stands ready and waiting on the truck tho.

There was a whole camera team on hand including steadicam and lighting and grip workers, DIT etc. I've given this example consistently through this thread and you keep trying to say that this is not a professional crew because it is for TV or whatever but these people all made their living doing this.

[Stuart Brereton]

Ok, fine. The c-stands are all on the truck and no-one's using them. Perhaps they are afraid they'll get stolen, given the rarity of these semi-mythical pieces of equipment. Perhaps I should start a business importing these magical pieces of steelwork to poor old third world Britain.

 

Look on in awe..

 

[Stuart Brereton]

Seriously, Stuart - when's the last time you did a job where every piece of technical equipment was yours, that you'd had to buy, with your money?

 

 

About a year ago, Phil. All the lamps, frames, gels, rags, and cables were mine.

 

Oh, and the c-stands were mine as well.

[John Holland]

I don.t belive what I have read hear C-Stands are alway available on a UK shoot ! Up to you if you want to use them .I do all the time .

[Brian Drysdale]

It's quite possible to be on a BBC drama shoot and not see C stands being used on particular days, that's not to say they're not in the truck. It really depends on the scene, location and the lighting style being used.

[Phil Rhodes]

 

[Phil Rhodes]

About a year ago, Phil.

 

Well, yeah, in LA!

 

Damn things turn up for $5 at yard sales.

 

 

 

I don.t belive what I have read hear C-Stands are alway available on a UK shoot !

 

John, in all seriousness, what's happened in this thread is that C stands have become a proxy for the ineffable crapness of the UK industry.

 

You work on flash high end stuff.

 

Very few people do. For most of us, basics like these are not basic. I had exactly this reaction on the ASC course in LA. I was expressing admiration of a huge cart full of stands and flags and gels and toys, and the Americans were standing there giving exactly the same reaction - "this is just normal basic stuff!"

 

No. No, it isn't.

 

P

[Satsuki Murashige]

Now it's my turn to suggest that everyone stop arguing and head to the pub for a pint. Drinks on the house!

[Robin R Probyn]

Many years ago there was a very interesting David Attenborough nat hist doc on C stands.. over a ten year period they tracked sightings,mostly around the Ealing environs of London..and Pinewood studio in rural Buckinghamshire.. long know in the past, as an area full of C stands,well into the late 1980,s.. fascinating interviews with aged DP,s and camera assistants from Kajagoogoo "pop" video,s.. where flag forests would abound.. and knuckle arms would be festooned with tennis balls and polglystarine cups..

 

Finally there was grainy footage of perhaps two maybe even three.. it was hard to tell .. in the dark recesses of Ealing studio 1 .. lit only by one dusty 40W club.. a sad legacy of the 90,s austerity cuts.. but then in the wink of an eye.. they were gone.. the enigma of the C stand.. from abundance to nothing within 20 years.. and why.. well we just dont know..

Edited February 17, 2016 by Robin R Probyn

[Freya Black]

Ok, fine. The c-stands are all on the truck and no-one's using them. Perhaps they are afraid they'll get stolen, given the rarity of these semi-mythical pieces of equipment. Perhaps I should start a business importing these magical pieces of steelwork to poor old third world Britain.

 

Look on in awe..

 

 

 

Nice! :)

 

At the BSC show they had a trolley like this only it was designed to be more like a cage.

I'm not sure if it was in case anyone stole the c-stands or if it was in case the c-stands escaped into the wild!

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

It's quite possible to be on a BBC drama shoot and not see C stands being used on particular days, that's not to say they're not in the truck. It really depends on the scene, location and the lighting style being used.

 

Yup could have been the BBC shoot used c-stands on a day I wasn't around for all I know.

Although given the terrible quality of the stuff shot on the other days, I really doubt it.

I'm sure they were one the truck. I mean they had two techno cranes sitting idle throughout the shoot too!

The whole shoot was kind of no expense or effort spared! ;)

 

Freya

[Lee Burnett]

I am finding it funny how this thread has progressed.

 

I mean, I do see c-stands all of the time, especially with kinos, but I guess the argument people are making isn't really about c-stands at all. It's about the fact that there are many many professional, paid shoots in the UK, where the budget is butt-tight, and money going towards extras such as c-stands and excess lighting will come out of people's day-rates.

That means that a lot of shoots just 'make do'. I've only worked on a couple of shoots that had a g&e crew, let alone a truck.

 

These are professional shoots. I make my living from camera opping. Most of my wages (although not all) comes from shoots that can't afford to get a 1st ac, 2nd ac, a g&e department or a lighting truck. Now that sort of shoot is rare, rarer than any c-stand.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Lee Burnett

[Lee Burnett]

And if you work on shoots like that all the time, amazing. I'm not saying they don't exist. It just seems sort of crap that people who get work like that all the time can't see the struggle that lots of production companies go through not getting budget to get the things that are usually standard on bigger shoots. And then kind of shun them as if it's not professional?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Lee Burnett

[Brian Drysdale]

A lot of UK TV budgets are heavily squeezed these days, so, unless it's a flagship production, more than likely on a general programme it's going to be a two person crew, with camera and sound. Others will have only a single person doing both jobs. In these circumstances C stands become less likely, unless the person on camera uses one as personal choice in their lighting kit.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hilariously, I've just received a promotional missive from the people who had those giant carts full of C-stands (peace and blessings be upon their little knobs) at the BSC show. Backstage Equipment or something? I got the impression that, like many US film and TV equipment companies who suffer the indignity of a rude awakening to the emotionally scarifying realities of the UK market, they were surprised at how crap we are. Really, really surprised.

 

That reality is that I'll never be a customer of that company, because I'll never have enough gear on any one shoot to need a cart for it all.

 

...except for once. Years ago. I did an absurdly over-budgeted yet simultaneously crap music video on which they had no money to pay the crew but plenty to hire a massive amount of gear. A huge blue truck turned up (they're blue here), and big wheeled carts (possibly by Backstage Equipment were wheeled out. It was almost instinctive to begin the chant:

 

America! **(obscenity removed)** yeah! Coming' again to save the mother**(obscenity removed)**in' world!

 

I would love to be able to report that it was immediately taken up by the entire crew, who were accustomed to being as underpaid and gear-starved as I was, but sadly only a couple of people got the joke.

 

On the other hand, there were only about three crew to begin with, so perhaps that wasn't a bad percentage. This shortage of qualified hands meant, of course, that the overwhelming majority of Arri Rental's shiny toys stayed exactly where they were left by the guys who'd unloaded them, naturally leading to embarrassing questions later on. So, my personal tally of shoots where more than three stands of any kind were provided remains resolutely at one, and I have only the fact that the production company went out of business before paying anyone (but the director used the material anyway) to comfort me.

 

Benighted? **(obscenity removed)** yeah!

 

God, I hate this country.

[Bradley Stearn]

The best place I've found in the UK that sells pretty much every Rosco or Lee gel is White Light. If I want a unique gel at a short notice, they usually get it delivered within a couple of days. Gives you the option to buy in sheets, or gels. Buying in sheets is a great budget option if you only want the gel to cover a couple of lamps.

 

http://shopwl.com/lighting/lighting-gel/