Out of the EU

[Simon Wyss]

So many languages and too few currencies. Before the EU the different currencies acted like pumps among the countries.

[Phil Rhodes]

For the record, yes, even I can do the subject of the email. Its content is rather more complex.

 

P

[Freya Black]

...which is ironic, because if I receive a form from the local Council, it is in English, and I can order it in two dozen other languages, including obscure Indian languages, Bangladeshi dialects, even in French and Spanish... – although maybe the "sheer lack of any foreign language use in the UK" was the reason why the kind English working class hero who I encountered my on the train ride through the Home Counties a week after the referendum, while I was on the phone speaking French to a French client, told me in no uncertain ways that "this is England, we speak English here, take it somewhere else." Now I understand! :P

 

 

There is also an effort at graphic design too to make it easier to work stuff out regardless of language as opposed to Germany where the text is in huge blocks of German only text that looks like it was spat out of some kind of 70's computer with the barest expectation of it being human readable, often coming from about 4 different places too.

 

I hear so often people say the British hate foriegners which is so ridiculous when we go to such efforts to try and help them.

I also see frequent signs in polish and there are special classes available for polish people to learn English but nothing for English people to learn other languages.

 

I have to say that I frequently hear all these folks from overseas ragging on how awful the UK is and yeah it's been going badly down the toilet for a long, long time with very bad descisions made by influential people tearing things apart but it also has a long and beautiful history of many things that I love. Probably if I was fortunate enough to have the option I would choose to live here somewhere if I could make it all work. Could say a lot more but I probably said too much already.

 

anyway...

[Phil Rhodes]

I had the reality of the situation thrown abruptly in the way of my consciousness yesterday when I returned to the UK from the Netherlands, where I'd been attending IBC. Compared to Amsterdam, London is a toilet. The causes of this are identifiable as being principally from two vectors.

 

First, British people are, on average, absolute slobs, coating everything within arm's reach and beyond with layers of spit, vomit, chewing gum, and anything else they can find that will stain, stink and degrade. Just the state of the average street paving slab here is indicative of the poor average standard of humanity.

 

The other problem is that the UK is, and has for a while been, an increasingly poor country. The funds available to rework things that need reworking have obviously dwindled as external revenues have contracted over the last three decades or so, and we're getting to the point where it's starting to show quite severely. I'm not quite sure how long it's been since the underground ticket hall at Liverpool Street has needed a ceiling, but there have been dangling loops of cabling and pipework for a decade at least.

 

The final nail in the coffin, if one was needed, is the soaring cost of everything. I use the public transport example here because it's possibly the best example of where people in this country are paying for Rolls-Royce service and getting a worn-out bicycle, but the cost of housing is another case in point. We have, simultaneously, among the most expensive and smallest housing in the world. This period will be remembered, even if the problem is solved tomorrow, as the time the UK built "all those tiny apartments," and still headlines in the popular press scream with dismay every time even the slightest risk to supersonic house price increases becomes apparent.

 

When quality of life and cost of living diverge this rapidly, the underlying economy is clearly in very, very deep trouble. With the EU exit, the UK possibly has one last chance to avoid sinking into permanent mediocrity. Because our ruling elite is pathologically self-centred and has the attitude of a truculent five-year-old to doing anything even vaguely risky or challenging, this chance will, of course, be completely squandered. I would like to think something could be done at this point. I am completely confident nothing will be done.

 

The only comfort is that so many of those absolute slobs we talked about deserve every bit of misery they get.

 

P

[Freya Black]

The other problem is that the UK is, and has for a while been, an increasingly poor country. The funds available to rework things that need reworking have obviously dwindled as external revenues have contracted over the last three decades or so, and we're getting to the point where it's starting to show quite severely. I'm not quite sure how long it's been since the underground ticket hall at Liverpool Street has needed a ceiling, but there have been dangling loops of cabling and pipework for a decade at least.

 

Always seems to be plenty of money for some people and some things, just not for others.

[Guest]

Immigration has had a devastating affect on the UK as well. And clearly this issue drove the "leave" vote to victory.

 

R,

[Michael Lehnert]

Immigration has had a devastating affect on the UK as well.

 

:)

 

I could ask you to elaborate in precise political, legal, economic, and social terms, using exact definitions and historical markers, to validate what you want to say with such a broad-brush and stark statement, especially as you don't seem to have an active stake in this debate at all to sound so angry.

 

But then again, I can't be bothered, because writing out of an emotional affect can have terrible effects.

[Guest]

 

especially as you don't seem to have an active stake in this debate at all to sound so angry.

 

I'm a UK citizen for one, born there, were you?

 

I guess you don't read any of the UK papers? I was in the UK three times last year, it seems you could not turn a page of a newspaper without seeing an article critical of immigration to the UK. So if you believe I'm the only person who thinks this way, I guess you'd be wrong. Like I said....it's clear immigration was a driving factor in powering the leave side to victory.

 

R,

[Michael Lehnert]

I am an EU citizen living in the UK since 2000, full on and my entire adult life, having lived in all corners of the nation state and its four countries, and having gone through every career step through those years. I don't need UK papers or occasional travels to inform myself about the situation here, which is evident had you made the polite and netiquette effort to catch up with the last few pages of this thread before re-engaging.

 

And while it's one thing to re-iterate that immigration was one of the key drivers leading to Leave to win, which is so self-evident it's not questioned by anyone, it's altogether another thing to claim that ...

 

 

 

Richard Boddington, on 17 Sept 2016 - 6:04 PM, said:
Immigration has had a devastating affect on the UK as well.

 

...and so I asked you to elaborate in precise political, legal, economic, and social terms, using exact definitions and historical markers, to validate what you want to say with such a broad-brush and stark statement, especially as you seem to be a UK citizen having emigrated from the UK to Canada, at some stage in your life, to become an immigrant there.

[Guest]

I am an EU citizen living in the UK since 2000,

 

Ok so you were not born in the UK, like me. EU? The UK just voted to ditch it, so it's a bit of a moot point now I am afraid.

 

R,

[Guest]

especially as you seem to be a UK citizen having emigrated from the UK to Canada, at some stage in your life, to become an immigrant there.

 

Maybe you are not aware, Canada is simply an extension of the UK. So I am not an "immigrant" to Canada. The Canadian prime minister swears his oath of allegiance to the queen of England, so that would hardly make me an immigrant now would it?

 

R,

[Phil Rhodes]

Er, yes, it would...

[Guest]

Er, yes, it would...

 

Nope.

 

R,

[Michael Lehnert]

Phil,

 

Richard is just trolling here for the sheer fun of it, making panto season start early this year. No native English speaker would mistake 'effect' for 'affect', no royalist would use the term 'Queen of England', no British citizen would fail to understand the status of his passport, no Canadian would accept a self-declared Englishman call the Maple Leaf state "an extension of the UK" and allow him to stay there in good health (well, none of my Canadian friends would), and no self-respecting immigrant would walk around spouting supremacist, nativist and xenophobic one-liners like at a Britain First convention while actually living abroad, even when using "ex-pat" for oneself, 'cause immigrants are of course the others, never oneself.

 

:-)

[Guest]

and no self-respecting immigrant would walk around spouting supremacist, nativist and xenophobic one-liners like at a Britain First convention while actually living abroad, even when using "ex-pat" for oneself, 'cause immigrants are of course the others, never oneself.

 

:-)

 

Never said anything along those lines and your comments are libelous. I'll expect you to remove that comment.

 

R,

[Michael Lehnert]

I am not referring to you personally, and you know that. I am making a visibly-marked ironic comment on self-reflectivity in stereotypical demographical groups that were paraded ad nausea through the political discourse in the UK surrounding the UK EU referendum, as it is being discussed in the public and the media here. Besides, you are not even an immigrant, legally or otherwise. You said so yourself.

 

If you have anything else to contribute, then please feel free to finally reply to my question raised in post #107 and #109 in response to your first sentence in post #106, stating not even implicitly or by insinuation that my presence, my entire adult and professional life spent in your native country that you no longer live in, fiscally contribute to, or value-add in a way that you felt worthy to explain, is "devastating" its nature as a nation state and societal entity. A defamatory statement which under British law can constitute hate speech depending on contexts, especially as the accusation made has been clearly rejected by scientific research taken on board by Her Majesty's Government, especially the Home Office then lead by the current Prime Minister, Theresa May. I am sorry to realise you don't seem to understand how insulting your comments are, while you yourself intimidatingly threaten legal action when faced with some good old British ironic commentary that's not even aimed at you.

 

I consider this conversation on this matter with you closed, after 10 years appreciating your career development here will also block you in 24 hours' time, and wish you best of luck for the Emmys. You deserve to win, but politics is probably an area you should comment on with greater sophistication, less blatant generalisation, and more profound research - especially in writing on public forums.

 

To be fair, I am happy to delete all my comments since #107 and forget about this if you delete all yours made since post #106.

[Robin R Probyn]

 

Always seems to be plenty of money for some people and some things, just not for others.

 

 

Yeah thats it.. there is money but its being concentrated back to a very small slither of society .. going back to the Victoria times as far as wealth distribution.. Im no working class hero but its not the polls are lazy or dont accept challenges.. they serve those who put them there.. we live under a capitalist system.. and so pure empirical logic will dictate that for this system to work wealth goes to a very few.. off the back of everyone else.. just economics 101.. while the anarchists ( middle class kids from Bristol Uni) are angry at everyone in Kensington with a BMW.. they ignore the real problem..

[Robin R Probyn]

wasn't the US also ,relatively recently, an extension of the UK.. ..yet I just missed a shoot there due to need/time for an I visa.. its an outrage sir.. questions will be raised in the house I assure you..

[Guest]

A defamatory statement which under British law can constitute hate speech depending on contexts, especially as the accusation made has been clearly rejected by scientific research taken on board by Her Majesty's Government, especially the Home Office then lead by the current Prime Minister, Theresa May.

 

HA! I guess everyone on Fleet Street had better run as the police will be coming for them!

 

Please explain why Nigel Farage hasn't been locked up? He's been quite open about his opposition to the UK's immigration policies for a long time.

 

R,

[Michael Lehnert]

Richard, go to bed, you are now starting to make a fool of yourself, because those questions are embarrasing due to the obvious answers, and also widely reported investigations. :-)

[Guest]

You're the one who is up at 3:30 am.

 

R,

[Guest]

the Maple Leaf state

 

Speaking of making a fool of yourself......"the Maple Leaf state" Michael? You try to pass yourself off as some sort of half assed pseudo intellectual with your posts. Ha!

 

R,

[Guest]

wasn't the US also ,relatively recently, an extension of the UK.. ..yet I just missed a shoot there due to need/time for an I visa.. its an outrage sir.. questions will be raised in the house I assure you..

 

They fought their way out of the empire and won. Canada, with its army, couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag.

 

R,

[Michael Lehnert]

Ehm, not in my timezone... :-D ... do keep up with globalisation and the 21st century. I know, it's complex, and social change hurts when you cling to the past that never really was. It was terrible when the Maple Leaf replaced the Union Flag, wasn't it. All thise Canadians, I mean Real-English, saying "Yeah" to their extension of England. Goodbye, Richard.

[Robin R Probyn]

 

They fought their way out of the empire and won. Canada, with it's army, couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag.

 

R,

 

 

But they have good hats.. :)