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Dunkirk: Nolan's first all 70mm movie.


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Dunkirk will look awesome in 15/70. Tyler, do you have any further info about the 15/70 footage ratio compared with 5/70 ? Will there be format changes in the movie as in Interstellar ? I wasn't too happy with this style previously, but it may have a different effect with a war film.

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I'm not sure about the format change, but I assume there will be. It's just, this time around it won't be as noticeable.

 

So far they've shot WAY more 15/70 then 5/70. I have a feeling he will be using 15/70 for everything outside of intimate dialog scenes where audio is critical.

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I'm not sure about the format change, but I assume there will be. It's just, this time around it won't be as noticeable.

 

So far they've shot WAY more 15/70 then 5/70. I have a feeling he will be using 15/70 for everything outside of intimate dialog scenes where audio is critical.

Interesting that the teaser trailer is in 2.4:1 or whatever, not Imax ratio. So Christopher Nolan will be doing a straight 70mm version as well. The story of Dunkirk is certainly full of human stories that would be good for 5/70 camera, like the ordinary men in fishing boats that came to the rescue.

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  • 4 months later...

I have no access to watching film IMAX here anymore. The original IMAX theater in Vancouver (CN IMAX) closed its doors many years ago and is now a theater for a Canada Flyover experience. The remaining 3 IMAX theaters in BC (not including the Omnimax theater at Science Center) all went digital a few years ago. I was at the one in Victoria this year and they pushed their film IMAX projector to the back near the window for all to see. It is not being used anymore. The one in Richmond and one in Langley use 2K projectors now. I wish they kept the option to use their film projectors, because I really miss the old experience. The one in Langley still has the original screen, but when showing digital IMAX, it clearly doesn't fill the screen like it did with the film projector. I'd love to build a traditional IMAX theater here in my own home town, but I'm not rich like that, so its only a dream.

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A friend of mine who is borderline obsessed with this stuff, told me they re-installed it for the "Batman vs. Superman" release. I hope they did (nobody could confirm over the phone). Otherwise the next-closest IMAX screen is in Philadelphia.

 

What the AMC theater in the Palisades Park Mall in W. Nyack?

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With the move to digital "Imax" you'd think there must be a few 15/70 projectors doing nothing. Other than sitting as quaint exhibits maybe. Very sad. I used to go to an Imax cinema at Bournemouth UK, then one day saw it all derelict and being demolished.

Maybe Dunkirk will help reverse the trend.

 

I have no access to watching film IMAX here anymore. The original IMAX theater in Vancouver (CN IMAX) closed its doors many years ago and is now a theater for a Canada Flyover experience. The remaining 3 IMAX theaters in BC (not including the Omnimax theater at Science Center) all went digital a few years ago. I was at the one in Victoria this year and they pushed their film IMAX projector to the back near the window for all to see. It is not being used anymore. The one in Richmond and one in Langley use 2K projectors now. I wish they kept the option to use their film projectors, because I really miss the old experience. The one in Langley still has the original screen, but when showing digital IMAX, it clearly doesn't fill the screen like it did with the film projector. I'd love to build a traditional IMAX theater here in my own home town, but I'm not rich like that, so its only a dream.

 

 

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The Bournemouth Imax cinema never retreated to digital, before that day when I gulped at the vast skeleton with side panels flapping in the wind. At least digital Imax cinemas have the option of returning to true 15/70, if they can make some kind of profit from people who appreciate the difference.

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The biggest problems with the standard 15/70 format comes down to the print cost, constant maintenance and frequent lamp replacements.

 

There are also licensing fee's and many other costs that have put the 15/70 format out of commission.

 

The average 15/70 IMAX screen needs to make MORE MONEY then a standard theater in order to survive. This is why the big surviving 15/70 theaters, generally run science movies at $15/head. They're short and they can run a dozen screenings per day, which makes up for the costs.

 

All IMAX needed to do was subsidize the print cost and theaters older then 20 years, no longer have to pay the licensing fee. That doesn't help with the maintenance and lamp replacements though, both of which are very costly. IMAX never intended for the format to grow like it has and during the big switch from film to digital, they were still churning out new very heavy maintenance based projectors. Now their new business model is supplying 1.5M dollar projectors and charging even more for the licensing fee. Theaters that switch over to digital, are also having troubles paying for it all, even though you don't need a projectionist anymore, OR parts for said projector since the laser heads are so efficient. In a lot of ways IMAX Laser projection is the best system in the world and it's just an intermediary between the next format which will be 8k.

 

In terms of the old projectors. I know the MKI and MKII projectors, are so old they're generally owned by the theaters, so if replaced with digital, a lot of times they never leave the theater. The newer projectors in a lot of cases, are sent back to IMAX for storage. So I bet they've got a gluttony of machines lined up.

 

I do know this much, with Interstellar, there were far more IMAX 15/70 theaters around then there will be in Summer 2017. I have a feeling, IMAX will put 15/70 installations back in certain theaters JUST for the release of 'Dunkirk', like they did with 'Interstellar' at the Chinese Theater here in Hollywood. I do think for them, it's not a huge problem to ship a hand-full of systems out and install them for a month of screenings.

 

Since Dunkirk is mostly a 5/70 film, the best way to see it will be 5/70 theater. With the Hateful Eight projectors still out there, I have a feeling a deal will be struck to use those and we may see a lot of 5/70 prints running around.

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Dunkirk has 100 minutes of IMAX material, far more then 5/65. Unless this is a 3 hour movie, then I could see it being 1/2 of each. I saw the preview of Dunkirk in IMAX yesterday, and pretty much all the shots I saw were full frame IMAX. That is of course what the digital projector would show, since it still doesn't fully fill the frame.

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I'm really looking forward to Dunkirk. I will certainly try to see it in full Imax 15/70. It will be a welcome change to see a non-fantasy/sc-fi film in this format. How did the preview look, Scott?

And going back I seem to recall you were planning your own Imax film in monochrome ? Maybe I got it wrong...But if so, any progress ?!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Doug,

 

It looked really good in the preview. Very dynamic shots and good use of the IMAX cameras. It was a plane dog fight which I saw.

 

As for my own project- it has stalled. Can't get any interest in taking it on, so its going nowhere at this time. I continue to tweak the script in the mean time.

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  • 4 months later...

According to the "in70mm" website, my Langley IMAX theater here in British Columbia will be showing Dunkirk in 15/70 film projection. I've contacted Cineplex to see if this information is true or just rumour. If true, this would be the first time since Nolan's last Batman movie, that that theater has shown IMAX film projection. Also asked them to see if they will leave the projector in the booth for future releases in 70mm, or if this is just a 1 shot deal.

Edited by Scott Pickering
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  • 2 weeks later...

very lucky the local imax here is ... "reinstalling our original IMAX 1570 Film Projector (alongside the new IMAX Dual 4K Laser system) for the release of DUNKIRK in order to provide viewers with the cinema experience Nolan wishes you to have"

 

Should be a great time

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Just saw the 10 minutes of Dunkirk ahead of the 70mm prints of Wonder Woman... WOW all I can say is that it looks amazing. I love "realistic", in-camera shots and the scene chosen was perfect.

 

I can't wait!

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The Imax theatre at the MN Zoo is approximately 85 feet wide by six stories high (60-70 feet?), When using their 70mm 15 Perf projector the image goes wall to wall and floor to ceiling. The Imax digital goes to within 3 or 4 feet of the edge of the screen. So, no it does not compare exactly. See my post in the Dunkirk thread for a description of my visit to the projection booth.

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I went to the Langley theater today that has the old IMAX theater in it. I got confirmation they are showing Dunkirk in 15 perf 70mm film print. Apparently they never removed the old IMAX film projector, but installed it on a rail system so the two projectors could slide one out and the other in place for a show. She also confirmed they haven't used the film projector in 4 years (last time was Nolans Batman 3 film). She said IMAX was sending out a projectionist just for Dunkirk to make sure the IMAX film print goes without a hitch. Makes sense as what current employee would know how to setup a film projector these days?

 

I don't know why Interstellar didn't get a 70mm film print for this theater, but with all the 70mm hype of late, Nolan's push to show it on that finally stuck with theaters across the world. I did ask her if they'll use the film projector for movies like the up and coming Star Wars. She said she didn't know, but it didn't sound like it will happen. Its all up to the movie companies whether they want to show it on film or not. Nolan has the push to do it.

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My 1970 Cinematographer Manual says that 35mm Vistavision is 35mm x 8 perf and has a projectable area almost identical to 70mm 5 perf and can be optically printed to 70mm prints almost 1 for 1. So there is no "blowing up" of the frame. That is why Lucasfilm used Vistavision cameras for the fx work on the original trilogy. The cost of 35mm neg was much less than 70mm and the Vistavision cameras were easily modified for multiple pass fx work.

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That's not quite accurate because of the aspect ratio issues.

 

VistaVision is 36mm x 24mm, which is a 1.50 : 1 aspect ratio. So for any aspect ratio wider than 1.50 : 1, you are cropping the negative vertically.

 

Projected 70mm area is 48.56mm x 22.10mm, which is a 2.20 : 1 aspect ratio (negative area is 52.63mm x 23.01mm, which is a 2.28 : 1 aspect ratio.)

 

So unless ILM was doing VFX for a 1.85 movie like "E.T." (and in fact, they mostly used standard 4-perf 35mm for many of the effects in "E.T." because all the VistaVision cameras were busy on other projects), then they would be cropping VistaVision down to get a 2.40 aspect ratio.

 

For the VistaVision restoration of "Vertigo", Robert Harris did copy the negative onto 5-perf 65mm because it was almost a 1:1 copy since he didn't need the sides of the 65mm negative, the movie being 1.85.

 

But most of the visual effects that ILM did starting with "Star Wars" were for movies where the live action was shot in 4-perf 35mm anamorphic for a 2.40 aspect ratio.

 

If you want to compare negative real estate for 2.40 between spherical VistaVision versus spherical 5-perf 65mm, then the dimensions on the negative used for a 2.40 extraction would be something like (I'm using rough figures):

 

36mm x 15mm (VistaVision)

 

50mm x 20.8mm (5-perf 65mm)

 

I could do the math for the surface area in square millimeters, but it should be obvious that you are working with a bigger negative area with 65mm.

 

Since most vfx work was for 4-perf 35mm movies, then of course whether you shot in VistaVision or 65mm for effects plates, there was no blowing up of the frame, only reduction printing, so VistaVision, even cropped to 36mm x 15mm for 2.40, was a larger negative area than 21mm x 17.5mm of 4-perf 35mm anamorphic.

 

Besides the fact that it was easier to buy and process 35mm than 65mm, and there were more optics available for VistaVision since it was the same format as 35mm still photography, and both formats counteracted problems with grain from duping multiple generations... the other reason why these 35mm anamorphic movies shot their visual effects in VistaVision or 65mm was to avoid using anamorphic lenses for shooting miniatures.

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According to Cineplex Canada, Dunkirk is 1 hour 47 minutes long. With 100 minutes of IMAX footage, that would mean only 7 minutes of the film are actually in 5 perf 70mm. So pretty much most of the film was shot with IMAX cameras.

 

The only 100% IMAX movie was Wings of Courage, and it was a shorter movie at that. Dunkirk marks the most use of IMAX film cameras for a Hollywood feature.

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Yea that sounds about right, based on the BTS I've seen, it's mostly 15/70 cameras. I wonder if they'll zoom up the 5 perf stuff to fit the whole screen for the IMAX presentation, or if they'll letterbox it like they've done in the past.

 

One exciting piece of news is that Warner Brothers officially owns a bunch of 15/70 projectors that they MAY be shipping out to theaters for this roll out. Right now, they were just pushed into storage a few weeks ago, so lets see if they make good on their promise and release the film ON film properly.

 

A few of the big theaters still have 15/70 projectors, just pushed off to the side.

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