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I use a 2 month old 12" Apple Powerbook that has all the whistles and bells. It's my little portable cinematographer-factory. On it I edit my reel in FCP, color correct a couple of shots I'm not happy with in AE or FCP, build my reel with flashy menus in DVD Studio Pro and when I'm happy I burn the DVDs on my built in Superdrive. Naturally I also update my website regularly with it and print covers and stickers for the reels. So in that regard it has earned its money back in less than a month compared to some outside source.

 

As I'm writing this I'm in Berlin on a job, in my hotel, connected to the internet wirelessly with my built in Airport, eating a swiss bar of chocolate. I absolutely love it.

 

Due to it's small size and light weight, I can bring it along everywhere, even when I go on one of my long bicycle rides. Sure I occasionally miss a bigger screen, but I'm planning on getting a 20" monitor to have when I'm working at home - with that there's no need to ever have a bigger laptop. The whole point of gaving a laptop is that it should be small.

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Now a new twist.

 

The virus code that was developed was called concept code that is essentially the building block to produce a real virus. This code would be used to penetrate vulnerabilities in what's called a scripting shell for the graphic user interface.

 

MS says they will not use that particular scripting shell in the final version of Vista.

 

From what I've read there are other places in Vista that can be targeted such as Vista's RSS reader. So MS may not be totally in the clear yet.

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I use a 2 month old 12" Apple Powerbook that has all the whistles and bells. It's my little portable cinematographer-factory. On it I edit my reel in FCP, color correct a couple of shots I'm not happy with in AE or FCP, build my reel with flashy menus in DVD Studio Pro and when I'm happy I burn the DVDs on my built in Superdrive. Naturally I also update my website regularly with it and print covers and stickers for the reels. So in that regard it has earned its money back in less than a month compared to some outside source.

 

As I'm writing this I'm in Berlin on a job, in my hotel, connected to the internet wirelessly with my built in Airport, eating a swiss bar of chocolate. I absolutely love it.

Just for balance :rolleyes: you can do all this on a PC too...

 

Due to it's small size and light weight, I can bring it along everywhere, even when I go on one of my long bicycle rides. Sure I occasionally miss a bigger screen, but I'm planning on getting a 20" monitor to have when I'm working at home - with that there's no need to ever have a bigger laptop. The whole point of gaving a laptop is that it should be small.

Totally agreed. Though I can think of applications / scenarios where people actually need a mobile desktop replacement in which case a bigger and more powerfull machine might be more appropriate.

 

 

-k

 

btw.: My 3D workstation runs linux, my notebook Windows, I'm working most of the time on IRIX but Photoshop and occasionally combustion and Shake I do on Macs.

People say I have a weird hairstyle.

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I use a 2 month old 12" Apple Powerbook that has all the whistles and bells. It's my little portable cinematographer-factory. On it I edit my reel in FCP, color correct a couple of shots I'm not happy with in AE or FCP, build my reel with flashy menus in DVD Studio Pro and when I'm happy I burn the DVDs on my built in Superdrive.

 

You mean you're using your computer and it's portability and efficiency to GET WORK DONE ?

 

Don't you know that's beside the point ?

 

What about the bragging rights ? :D

 

-Sam

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I'm on a PC right now. I've used a PC since about 7th grade. Through high school I learned how to build and repair PCs, and the ins and outs of working with Windows. Now I'm pretty much sick of it all.

 

My reasons for wanting a change don't have a lot to do with the reasons many people bring up as issues with Windows. I've never gotten a virus, I clear out spyware regularly, I don't use Internet Explorer or Outlook Express. Windows, and PCs in general, have just been getting on my nerves lately.

 

About the price: you can get a PC very cheap. You can get a PC for a few hundred dollars, but is it worth it? From my experience, not exactly. Computers such as the $400 HP I'm typing on now are great tools for casual computer use, but for things I'd like to use it for, it's just lacking. To get a PC I'd be happy with, I'd end up spending about as much, maybe a little less, than I would for a Mac. Alienware and IBM make great machines, but these aren't exactly bargain basement. There's a premium for quality, and a great premium for great quality.

 

The real problem I'm having with PCs now is the unnesessary complexity in everything. If you buy an HP computer with Windows XP, you receive a computer with Windows XP, intertwined with HP software like a cancer, and laden with resource-eating plug-ins and trial shareware. The built in software that companies like HP use atop Windows attempts to make computer use easier for newer users, but is so sluggish and inoppurtune, it just wants to make one pull your hair out. And it's better to leave that software be instead of trying to remove it one-by-one, risking booting problems and bad .dll warnings aplenty.

 

I remember a time when you bought a PC, it came with the latest version of Windows, a package of pre-installed software (full versions of games and useful programs). Now you get all of this invasive software, basically a virus that comes to your computer, more annoying than any "I see you're trying to write a letter" paperclip. The one option now is that Microsoft does not require PC companies pre install Windows any longer. Theoretically, you could buy a computer with an unformatted hard drive, and a copy of Windows to clean install, but who wants to go through that, especially when an OEM version of Windows is way cheaper than a boxed version, which is about up to $200 by now, isn't it?

 

At this time, I'm interested in buying an iMac G5. I worked with OS9 a little in high school, to edit films for video productions class. I really liked how it was set up, and I'm interested in teaching myself OSX, it looks really nice. I was really impressed with Final Cut Pro (I used version 2...that was long ago), especially the interface. I'm less impressed with Premiere, but it's just a matter of opinion.

 

Of course, going from a $400 computer to a $1700 computer is where it really gets lost in translation. Being a contracted worker at a high school isn't exactly rolling in the dough.

 

About getting a laptop, though, I wouldn't necessarily go for a Mac, not just yet. I've looked at them, but I think I'd rather wait for a G5 powerbook, which would just be exciting.

Edited by Boone Hudgins
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I know how you feel. As soon as I received my Dell laptop I uninstalled pretty much all of the preloaded software (except for the CD burner app; I've had far too many troubles with burners not agreeing with my hardware!)

 

When Microsoft introduces a feature where a window triggers a spectacular desktop ripple effect, a la Widgets, I'll smile. But hey, transparent windows in Vista might be cool...

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Guest Tina Coggins

I was pleasantly surprised to see this topic here, because I was going to start it myself. I am a student and will be purchasing a notebook very soon, and I'm wondering what actual professionals in the field use.

 

From what I can see, it's all driven by what editing software one wants to use. So, I'm wondering, what is the best editing software to know?

 

Beyond that, I have a Sony Vaio desktop at home, so I'm thinking it would probably be better to get a PC laptop in order to exchange data between the two.

 

So, given that, can those of you who use PC-based laptops let me know what you think are the best ones on the market right now in around the $3,500 price range? Not asking you to do my homework, as I've been doing that myself; but it's really hard to find something that is optimized for video editing and would be a good workhorse for those in the field. Most of the comps I've found are for home and/or business applications, or for movie afficianados who want to watch movies, not necessarily make them.

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Apple V. Windows

 

There is no need to argue about it. I run Windows XP with SP2 on my Gaming computer, home computer and Laptop. I bought Norton anti-virus w/ firewall, and I have NEVER gotta a virus. I don't even update the computers that much, maybe once every 4 months.

 

I use Mozilla Firefox browser, Yahoo mail through Firefox, ect.

 

The classic Windows v. Apple debate is pointless, since both systems offer something the other don't. Wanna play many populare game titles on your MAC? Sorry, you can't.

 

Plus a lot of software that we have come to love is not available on MAC because there is such a little user-base, and such a small reason to make an alternate version for MAC. So in a way, it's Apples fault that many populare titles are not available in MAC, because they wanna keep there user base low.

 

It is true that a Dual G5 MAC desktop is going to be faster than anything you can get in a PC, but when it comes to Notebooks, Pc has a Hardware advantage.

 

As to the problem with Virus's ect, if he wants his Laptop for Previz, ect then chances are it wont see an internet connection, my laptop has only been connected to the internet twice in the whole year i have owned it.

 

Bottom line, it's gonna come down to what you wanna do with it. If you want to run high-performance programs like editing in HD, ect you are gonna need more than a laptop, in which case a Apple desktop is probly your best bet. If your computer is just for previz, a PC will do just fine.

 

Really, the only advantage to a Powerbook over a PC Laptop is, well, nothing when it comes to what you wanna use it for. A word of warning though, some animation programs cant run on MAC, and programs like XSI, Lightwave, ect are good for previz, so you will be limited on what you can use on a powerbook.

 

Just my $0.02

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Guest Tina Coggins

Anyone familiar with the Alienware laptops? They seem like they're supposed to be good for video and support the Avid editing software. Any opinions?

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It is true that a Dual G5 MAC desktop is going to be faster than anything you can get in a PC, but when it comes to Notebooks, Pc has a Hardware advantage.

This is simply not true. It very much depends on what you are doing. If you are using software which is optmised for the apple platform you'll get great performance. Unfortunately however most companies do not bother optimizing. Maya, Combustion and even Shake(!) are much slower on Macs than on PCs. After Effects is sort of equally fast, so is Photoshop (with the exception of a few filters).

Final Cut and Motion are really good.

 

As for notebooks: again, the main reason for apples switch to intel was cause their g4 powerbooks are really getting old and the pentium M beats the g4 easily.

 

-k

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As for notebooks: again, the main reason for apples switch to intel was cause their g4 powerbooks are really getting old and the pentium M beats the g4 easily.

 

That's the folk lore part of the story. The whole thing is really about business and money.

 

Motorola which makes the G4 processor, IBM makes the G5 processor, and Apple joined in the early 90's to propel the PowerPC CPU. The consortium has been very successful for all three companies.

 

At this point from a business and profit perspective all three are going in different directions.

 

Motorola could continue to advance the G4 and keep pace with Pentium M. But they decided to place their resources and development into other markets. Motorola's CPU division makes most of its money from its imbedded Power PC chips in peripherals such as printers, copiers, cell phones, etc.

 

As well IBM could develop a G5 that runs cool and fits into a PowerBook. But instead they used their time and resources to build chips to dominate the video game console market. Now all three major video game consoles will run with IBM PowerPC chips and will yield IBM a lot of money.

 

This does leave Apple falling behind with slower CPU's. So Apple decides to team with the largest manufacturer and supplier of processing chips. The obvious advantage is access to Intel's faster processors. The lesser known advantage is Apple now having access to Intel's motherboards.

 

Previously on PowerPC their had to be a special Mac version of all third party devices that connect to the motherboard. Such as graphic cards, memory, hard drives. Next year with Intel motheroards Mac's will be able to run standard PC graphic cards, hard drives, and memory.

 

Apple joining Intel is not one sided at all. Intel has been wooing Apple for at least the past five years. This is the reason why OS X has had a secret x86 build.

 

The reason Intel wants to work with Apple is because of Apple's philosophy of tight integration of hardware and software. Something that no other computer manufacturer does to the same extent.

 

That was one big advantages Apple and its PowerPC suppliers had that Intel has not had with its supply base. There is good evidence that Intel is collaborating with Apple on its next CPU designs, in the spirit of bringing tighter integration of software and hardware such as the relationship Apple has had with IBM and Motorola. Intel wants to bring that level of integration to the wider PC market.

 

Another advantage for Intel is in the introduction of new technologies. Apple designs its software to work elegant and seamlessly with its hardware. Any new technology that is introduced and integrated into the Mac is natural and intuitive.

 

Apple has broken several new technologies in this way. Apple was the first large user of USB, WiFi, FireWire, and Bluetooth. All of these are extremely easy and simple to use. Intel wants the ability to introduce its upcoming technologies in this environment.

 

For Intel business from Apple itself will not be significant in the sense that Dell sells something like 8 times more computers that Apple does. For Intel the access to Apple's ideas are what is most valuable.

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Kai you keep bringing up the fact that Mya, Combustion, etc are not optimized for the Mac.

 

But how many people here would use those apps? Move on to more common apps that people would likely use. Or at least more common tasks and compare the PC and Mac version of the software.

 

For example what is the PC version of Toast Titanium and does it work just as well? Or the PC versions Snapz Pro X, or Wire Tap, or Mac The Ripper, or Desk Top Movie Player. All excellent third party apps.

 

Also for perspecitive. Many applications especially media and publishing applications were originally made exclusively to run on Mac's.

 

Such as Word, Excel, Photoshop, After Effects, Avid, just to name a few. When the Visual Effects world began to go from mainframe to desk top, Mac's were the workhorse.

 

Apple lost ground because of inept leadership in the mid-ninties almost ran the company in the ground. Which left Microsoft room to step in and stake a claim in the publishing and media markets.

 

Wanna play many populare game titles on your MAC? Sorry, you can't.

 

The irony in this statement is the fact that Microsoft has used Power Mac G5's to preview games for its XBox 360.

 

The only reason for the gaming situation on the Mac is that vendors don't optimize games for the Mac.

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Really the problem with gaming is Microsoft.

 

Microsoft has its own propreitary API's for graphics rendering called Direct X.

 

While the wider computer world would like to work with an open source API group called Open GL.

 

If a game is made for Direct X, it will never run as well in Open GL as it does for Direct X.

 

Essentially you would have to rewrite the game for Open GL.

 

And of course Apple uses Open GL for OS X.

 

At first Microsoft said it would support Open GL in its next Windows version Vista, but now appears it will not, and try to force its own Direct X on the world.

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Kai you keep bringing up the fact that Mya, Combustion, etc are not optimized for the Mac.

 

But how many people here would use those apps? Move on to more common apps that people would likely use. Or at least more common tasks and compare the PC and Mac version of the software.

 

I use this software on a daily basis so I know them very well. Considering this "forum" is about images ;) its not that uncommon someone might get in touch with color correcting and previz image manipulation.

Ah... talking of some common app. Neither Safari not the Mac version of Firefox deliver the same responsiveness as windows firefox, or even (pfff ) IE

(though with Tiger it feels not as bad anymore).

In any case I guess its fair to extrapolate from the mentioned apps that there is a "problem" that since apples marketshare is pretty low the chance of optimization are pretty low too at least when the app was ported to OS X from another platform.

 

For example what is the PC version of Toast Titanium and does it work just as well? Or the PC versions Snapz Pro X, or Wire Tap, or Mac The Ripper, or Desk Top Movie Player. All excellent third party apps.

 

See, thats why I thought it to make sense to mention CPU intensive apps with wide user base on both platforms so chances of optimization could be at least a little higher.

As for the apps you mentioned there are hundreds of apps for those tasks. Nero is still more powerfull than Toast. But then I'm not burning that many dvds to have a balanced opinion.

 

To make clear that this whole topic is not a oneway street:

Quicktime is great on macs, really usefull. On PCs its just a bad joke.

 

In any case... I'm just saying that it makes alot of sense to look carefully what apps you are actually using with your computer and then decide on your platform.

I just don't see a good reason at the moment to buy an Apple notebook as your "all in all" machine. A G5 for editing with FCP... for sure.

 

-k

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At first Microsoft said it would support Open GL in its next Windows version Vista, but now appears it will not, and try to force its own Direct X on the world.

What do you mean with will not support? The new Vista desktop will require DirectX and MS will support OpenGL through it, which means very poor OpenGL performance. However since quite sometime ATI and NVIDIA or 3DLabs produced their own OpenGL drivers, so in most cases you should not have a problem. Apparently if you switch off the Aero (I think thats what it is called) and use the windows classic mode) you will be able to use OpenGL. This is what the few OpenGL games can/could do anyway, cause its single screen mode then.

 

While I too think this is an attempt to further push their (inferior) API, its just business. The same business like Apple dropping windows versions of Shake and Logic. :rolleyes:

 

-k

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All of the applications I mentioned are image related. The exception being Wire Tap which records audio.

 

All of the visual programs deal in Mpeg recording or decoding which does give the CPU a good work out with number crunching. These programs work very well on Mac's with slower processors because they are built using Apple API's and the Altivec rendering engine.

 

 

As for the apps you mentioned there are hundreds of apps for those tasks. Nero is still more powerfull than Toast.

 

I don't need hundreds, I just need one that does an excellent job.

How is Nero more powerful than Toast. Can you qualify that?

 

 

 

What Microsoft is doing is not real support for Open GL.

 

 

From opengl.org

 

"Microsoft's current plan for OpenGL on Windows Vista is to layer OpenGL over Direct3D in order to use OpenGL with a composited desktop to obtain the Aero experience. If an OpenGL ICD is run the desktop compositor will switch off - significantly degrading the user experience.

 

It would be technically straightforward to provide an OpenGL ICD within the full Aero experience without compromising the stability or the security of the operating system. Layering OpenGL over Direct3D is a policy decision more than a technical decision."

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We can all set here an bicker all the time, or we can face a sad reality. Not every computer in the world is just like the other, thank god. Maybe we should be mad at Apple for using Open GL instead of windows for using Direct X, what makes Apple's poop not stink so much that its ok for them to adopt Open GL, instead of using a more "Direct x" friendly code.

 

The argument can go on and on, and the bottom line is that it is not getting anyone anywhere. This guy came here and asked a question, and we reply with a bunch of arguments on how windows beat mac and mac beats windows, something no one is going to be able to agree on.

 

He asked what laptop computer would be best for his needs: My suggestion is any, as long as it has enough power to run previz and color correction programs. A nice Alienwear laptop would be great, if you got countless thousands of dollars, but itas much cheaper to buy one from someplace like Dell or IBM (Dont buy from HP, they suck).

 

A nice 3.4GHz processor, 1GB RAM, 200GB HD (if you can get them that high in a laptop) would surfice just fine. He's not wanting to make Shrek? with this thing after all!

 

Come on folks!

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Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith
Anyone familiar with the Alienware laptops?  They seem like they're supposed to be good for video and support the Avid editing software.  Any opinions?

I'd watch where you tread with Alienware, you'l pay double the realistic cost just because it's got a case with a few lights on it.

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Actually Landon its good that we have choices in the computer industry.

 

Its good we have different companies that have different approaches and philosophies.

 

The first poster asked what lap top do we all use, which can be simply answered, but its actually a complicated question.

 

An actual informative answer would recognize the differences between various computer platforms, their strengths and weaknesses as well as personal preference.

 

Just saying get a lap top with this processor speed, this graphics card, this much ram, and this amount of hard drive space. I suppose in the PC world that could possibly pass as an informative answer, but not if the buyer is looking for a computer that doesn't run Windows.

 

OS X and Windows are different. Many of the differences are technical a lot of them may be personal preference. So it should be ok to explain why I prefer one over the other.

 

In my discussions I've tried to stick to the facts as best I know them, and have not discouraged any one from using Windows if that is what they choose. In fact much of what I say is in response to something that may be taken out of context or simply untrue.

 

On the other end. We have different operating systems, but there does need to be some interoperability between them. In other words there needs to be some type of standards set, so that information and documentation can be reliably shared between these various systems.

 

That is the point of Open GL. Open GL is a board of several different computer organizations who have come together in cooperation to set a standard for how graphics will be rendered and displayed. Apple is apart of Open GL in the spirit of cooperation with others so there can be a consistency and harmony with respect to computer display.

 

Microsoft has come up with its own closed system which is Direct X. Microsoft owns, controls, and dictates the future of Direct X. For anyone else to use Direct X you have to dance to Microsoft's tune.

 

 

Microsoft is doing the same in other areas.

 

With the internet the industry at large has a coalition called the Web Standards Project whose purpose is to establish standards for how all web browsers and pages will interact. Apple's Safari is striving to comply with the Web Standards Project. While Internet Explorer does not follow the Web Standards Project at all.

 

 

With video MPEG - 4 Advanced Video Codec is set to be the next standard industry codec for compressing video. Apple has just introduced Quicktime 7 with MPEG 4. Just to be contrary to everyone else Microsoft has come up with its own codec that it will control called VC-1.

 

 

Adobe's PDF has become the industry standard for document sharing across platforms and various operating systems. Apple has built PDF into the graphics core of OS X. Each window of OS X is made up of PDF elements, and nearly any document in OS X can be saved as a PDF file.

 

Microsoft has weak support for PDF and in the next version of Windows is planning a competitor to PDF called Metro.

 

 

 

Now Landon this information may make me sound biased against Microsoft, but the information is fact, and not my opinion. I use these facts to form my opinion and decide which computer platform I would prefer to use.

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People who throw a fit like that over $50 outdated apple laptop computer's have to much free time on there hands, and they need to get out and do something useful with that time, instead of stupid stuff like this.

 

Crazyness.... :blink:

 

I'll build you a nice PC laptop for $2,000.00 + S&H... :rolleyes: , can't beat that!

Edited by Landon D. Parks
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"I'll build you a nice PC laptop for $2,000.00 +"

 

Will you pre-instal the viruses? Might as well, a PC will become infected with them the instant it's plugged into the net any way.

 

We Mac users are STILL waiting for the great Mac virus, and waiting.......

 

R,

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