Filip Plesha Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 (edited) 1K is 1024 sampled across full aperture (no sound) if you sample full aperture to 1920, then you got yourself 1.875K But if you zoom to 21mm, then HD is 2.14K, yes Edited July 17, 2005 by Filip Plesha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 17, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 17, 2005 1K is 1024 sampled across full aperture (no sound) if you sample full aperture to 1920, then you got yourself 1.875K But if you zoom to 21mm, then HD is 2.14K, yes <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, HD is 16:9 and is sampled 1920x1080. It is not possible to oversacn HD to '2.14k' , you can however scan the full apeture to 1920x1080 or indeed zoom into a super 16 frame size and scan 1920x1080. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip Plesha Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 What are you talking about? What do you mean by "overscan"? When I say zoomed HD is 2.14K, that means it is same pixel/mm ratio as if you scanned full aperture at 2.14K and cut out the sound area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 17, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 17, 2005 What are you talking about? What do you mean by "overscan"? When I say zoomed HD is 2.14K, that means it is same pixel/mm ratio as if you scanned full aperture at 2.14K and cut out the sound area. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, I am trying to explain that your HD @ 2.14k does not exist. You can't scan bigger than 1920x1080 in HD. If you do what your asking on a Spirit as Data its an UpRes in any case! Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted July 17, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 17, 2005 HD is a video format, not a data format. It is either 1920 x 1080 pixels or 1280 x 720 pixels, although some HD camera videotape formats will knock off some horizontal resolution. The Spirit has a CCD that is 1920 pixels across, except for the 4K Spirit. So you can't scan Super-8 at any higher resolution than that. I haven't heard of any of the film scanners like the Northlight being capable of scanning Super-8, but there isn't any point scanning Super-8 more than 1920 pixels across anyway. You can't get a "1K" scan of Super-8 either. You can only use a telecine, so your choices are HD or SD video, 1920 pixels across or 720 pixels across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip Plesha Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Hi, I am trying to explain that your HD @ 2.14k does not exist. You can't scan bigger than 1920x1080 in HD. If you do what your asking on a Spirit as Data its an UpRes in any case! Stephen <{POST_SNAPBACK}> K number has little to do with actual number of pixels, you said it yourself, but has everything to do with ppi for a specific format. I never said you get 2140 pixels out of HD, I said 1920 pixels for 21mm is 2.14K (for 24mm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 17, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 17, 2005 I never said you get 2140 pixels out of HD, I said 1920 pixels for 21mm is 2.14K (for 24mm) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi , You said:- QUOTE(Filip Plesha @ Jul 17 2005, 03:02 PM) But if you zoom to 21mm, then HD is 2.14K, yes Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip Plesha Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Yes, if you zoom to 21mm and sample at 1920, you are getting ppi resolution equal to 2.14K for 24mm I think you misinterpreted what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 17, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 17, 2005 Yes, if you zoom to 21mm and sample at 1920, you are getting ppi resolution equal to 2.14K for 24mm I think you misinterpreted what I said. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, I know what you mean, I was commenting on what you wrote! In any case 1920x1080 chip is smaller than a Super 16mm frame so the ppi resoloution is not directly comparable. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip Plesha Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Well the size of the chip does not matter because th light goes through the lens, it's not like it's contact scanning or anything. The ppi I'm talking about is not inches on sensor, but inches on film. Or in other words how much pixels you use to sample one inch of film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 17, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 17, 2005 Well the size of the chip does not matter because th light goes through the lens, it's not like it's contact scanning or anything. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, IMHO a 6MP DSLR (Nikon D70 for example) has a better resoloution than 6MP pocket camera because of the size of the chip. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip Plesha Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 oh dear, yes, but we are not talking about image quality, but simple mathematics. I was saying the size of the chip has nothing to do with scanning ppi (or dpi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 17, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 17, 2005 oh dear, yes, but we are not talking about image quality, but simple mathematics. I was saying the size of the chip has nothing to do with scanning ppi (or dpi) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, You said 'Well the size of the chip does not matter because th light goes through the lens,' This thread was about image quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip Plesha Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 (edited) I said that in response to you saying that you can't compare dpi because of size of the chip, you were not talking about image quality here I assume. So i responded to that by saying dpi measure has nothing to do with the size of the chip because the image is focuses through the lens (which corrects the image size of film to the size of the sensor) why are we having so much trouble communicating? Edited July 17, 2005 by Filip Plesha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 17, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 17, 2005 I said that in response to you saying that you can't compare dpi because of size of the chip, you were not talking about image quality here I assume. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, I was saying you can't compare dpi directly because of the size of chip is smaller and therefore of lower quality. Cheers Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip Plesha Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 oh, I see.. well yea, you can't compare dpi in terms of image quality I was saying you can compare it in terms of simple numbers (you know, inches and pixels) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Collins Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 What resolution is 10bit uncompressed quicktime? (720x480?) Would this option mainly improve color information? Could you explain a more about the advantages of 10bit uncompressed? Thanks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you transfer from Super 8 to say mini dv to get into your editing program you are getting a compressed format with 4:1:1 color info. You can transfer to Digi beta but if you are like me you can not afford a digi beta. 10 bit uncompressed quicktime sould retain all the color information see link http://www.bonolabs.com/tapeless.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Collins Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 here is more info on 10 bit uncompressed HD transfer I have yet to try their service but will be doing some tests soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Collins Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 sorry trying to attach a PDF but it will not attach see the bono lab link earlier the info is there. they are also a sponsor see banner ad on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoct Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Hi Jason - Flying Spot in Seattle, WA has a Super 8 gate for their Thomson Shadow (which is part of the Spirit family) and they can scan at 2k or at HD. Their rate is $300 an hour with a half hour minimum. These guys are very passionate about Super 8 and got the gate for the Spirit for their own use as well as a service for the rest of us. They are going to be able to answer all of your questions as I have asked them too. The short answer is that HD is good enough and not immediately noticable compared to SD. A 2k scan is excessive and a single frame of Super 8 at a 2k scan is 13MB. This means ten minutes would require 182.82GB of storage. In addition, it will be expensive to find a FireWire or SATA drive that can handle 312MB per second. What Flying Spot recommends is xfering to HD, then to down-res the transfer to SD, make an EDL from your cut, then do the color corection using their DiVinci and the HD master. Check out their website and give them a call. Honestly, their really knowledgeable and generous with sharing info. Flying Spot Film Transfer, Seattle Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwgreen Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Yeah, a Quicktime can be made and posted from any resolution. For testing purposes we export 1080i Uncompressed 10-bit Quicktimes all the time. Of course, the file size can became very large, very fast but a 2 second sample could easily be posted. For that matter, a fairly large H.264 version could be posted. What I am mainly interested in is how well the 8mm footage holds up when telecined to HD. So, any testimonials or concrete examples would be great. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 19, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 19, 2005 Hi Jason - Flying Spot in Seattle, WA has a Super 8 gate for their Thomson Shadow (which is part of the Spirit family) and they can scan at 2k or at HD. Chris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, I was fairly sure that the Shadow maxed out at HD and you needed a Spirit with Datacine option for 2k if using Thompson kit. Stephen Williams DP www.stephenw.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoct Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Hi, I was fairly sure that the Shadow maxed out at HD and you needed a Spirit with Datacine option for 2k if using Thompson kit. Stephen Williams DP www.stephenw.com <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, the best way to confirm this is to contact Flying Spot and ask them and they will give you the facts. You can ask for Jeff. I'm getting my footage back this week. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 19, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 19, 2005 Well, the best way to confirm this is to contact Flying Spot and ask them and they will give you the facts. You can ask for Jeff. I'm getting my footage back this week.Chris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, I lookled at their website, Shadow is SD+HD Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Burke Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Hi, I lookled at their website, Shadow is SD+HD Stephen <{POST_SNAPBACK}> check out www.thompsongrassvalley.com, you will see that the Shadow can do Data output, if so set up. I guess the spirit is the big brother to this. I am about to do this on a super 16 short. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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