Joao de Botelho Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I just received my second batch of footage shot with my Bolex and it's way too jittery! I'm using it professionally so this is something I can't afford. Basically what happens is that every 2/3 seconds the footage shakes. Sometimes to a point where even post production can't fix it. Can someone point me out to a solution? Otherwise any place that can fix my Bolex in Europe? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted November 24, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 24, 2018 Would you mind sharing the camera’s serial number? If you don’t feel comfortable with that, you may suppress the last three numbers such as 37XXX or 105XXX. That way I can tell you more about the film advance. Maybe you had only a lost loop (which would point to an earlier model before 1954). A photo of the film gate would help a lot here. I do service on Paillard-Bolex products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 24, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 24, 2018 How about a few basic bits of information, first? Bolex is not a generic term, but I assume it must be a 16mm camera at least... What model? What type of film are you shooting? Is it new or old stock? If I had to hazard a guess with the total absence of information to work from, I would say you are losing your loop below the gate, because once you lose it above the gate, you cannot recover just running the camera. It could indicate: 1. dirty, sticky gate. 2. take down claw dirty or damaged 3. pressure pad not seated properly 4. all of the above. More information is needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 Hi guys, forgive me the rush. Since I noticed this today the idea of having my little camera malfunctioning is wearing me a bit. When I remove the gate plate and slide my nail through it I do feel two very very tiny marks. Not sure this is enough to make it jitter? The bolex is a SBM model converted to super 16 and Wil PL mount conversion as well (Guy Bodart did this conversion). The loop to me looks fine but I can't really say. I'm uploading something I hope helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 https://wetransfer.com/downloads/18c636ef66485ec13f99ef0084f28ead20181124234230/17c1a14207ebe4bde99f126f7ec247c420181124234230/fd0924 Here is a link that should allow an educated evaluation :) Thank you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 That is truly weird. In addition to a light leak, see the stable perforations on the left-hand side but the image is jumping around. Are you doing straightforward location shooting? You aren't shooting off a monitor or anything like that are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Hi Frank, the light leak was only a problem in this role. There was a lot of sun in that day and probably some light got in when I changed the film. But indeed the image is just jumping around. Any idea on what it could be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 Are shooting "normally"? No mirrors? Is the lens secure on the camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Nothing. The lens is secured to the camera, its straight up hand held location shoot, no mirrors. It happened in ALL the shots form this 30 min film I just shot. =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 If you look at the transfer you have, you can see the outline of half of the perforation on the top and half of it on the bottom. These perforations are very steady as far as I can tell, so something has to be moving around IN FRONT of the gate; not the film jumping around in the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 Just a sec. that might not be true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 I just looked through the front and I can't see anything moving wrongly. But what do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 I think it can be stabilized electronically with After Effects or DaVinci Resolve, regardless of what caused it. This, of course, would be a problem if you want to go the traditional route of film to film... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 I am not able to stabilise all of them and the problem is that Im using this professionally, meaning it looks bad to receive something this bad from a lab. I just really want it to be good. I don't know if my gate plate is dirty and if that would change anything. Did you get a chance to look in the pics? The plate is not completely flat flat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 Yes, I looked at the pics of the pressure pad and gate. The pad appears to have some wear on it; nothing too dramatic that I can tell, but it's hard to tell what might be a defect. Where are the tiny marks you speak of? Are they on the edges of the pressure pad? Was this new film stock? If not, how old was the film? IF the film was tacky when going through the gate, it could have "cocked-around" a tiny bit, sticking and freeing itself as it went. The shots inside the camera body look like there is some emulsion dust around the gate; do you have the film itself and can you look at the base and emulsion to see if there are marks or scratches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Louis Seguin Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Check the guides on the side of the film corridor. They must be snug against the gate otherwise you will have weave or lose the loop completely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 It looks fine to me but its a bit hard to tell since I don't want to dismantle the camera completely. not without knowing what Im doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 I would STILL like to know if it was fresh film stock. Is this the first time you shot with the camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 This is brand new Kodak 50D film. I have sent to two different labs and in both times the footage came back with jitter so I doubt is a lab problem. Last time I sent it together with footage of a array 416 and with that one all went fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 It might just need a good cleaning of the gate and to re-tension the lateral springs; especially important for Super 16mm cameras. I don't work on them, but the other two responders on this thread do; you might want to talk to them... Wish I could have been more help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 This is a video of my Bolex rolling film. Please notice if there is anything wrong. I feel like the loops move around much? https://wetransfer.com/downloads/a747683a2530af132a809d2ed1115f3a20181125014139/524b1f582de5747988483da9af71b08020181125014139/074124 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 Although in the form of leaf springs the guides on the left hand (as seen from behind camera towards scene) are quite strong, no film can lift them up. The guides on the right hand side are immobile. Only one spring leaf locates the film laterally, it touches the film right next to the (forward) transport claw. The aperture plate generally measures 16 mm or a tad more. On the height of the leaf spring it is milled narrower to about 15,85 mm to make room. When the technician reassembles the gate the lateral guide frame must be placed over the aperture plate with great care. Maybe something occurred then or, worse, the leaf spring I’m speaking of doesn’t touch the film edge by some reason. It is most important that that is the case. Before you have a specialist check the cam, clean the space between aperture plate and side guide spring at the side of the claw, and everything with an unused toothbrush, pressure plate removed. Make certain shutter is closed in order to prevent debris spill on the back side of the reflex prism block. Dust on the shutter leaves is harmless. You have the more sensitive film gate with H-16 cameras, the anodized aluminum aperture plate of the magazine models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) This is a video of my Bolex rolling film. Please notice if there is anything wrong. I feel like the loops move around much? https://wetransfer.com/downloads/a747683a2530af132a809d2ed1115f3a20181125014139/524b1f582de5747988483da9af71b08020181125014139/074124 You have the film the wrong way around, with the black backing towards the lens and the photographic coating on the pressure plate. The lower loop appears a little too short. And, if you please, let the image be horizontal. VVS Edited November 25, 2018 by Simon Wyss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao de Botelho Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 I know it's wrongly placed.its just a film tip I loaded to quickly show you the functioning. Is there any way to verify that this cleaning you suggested was the cause for my problem, without exposing a new film and sending it to the lab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted November 25, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted November 25, 2018 No, there isn’t. What you can do is to lace up clear leader film, polyester, if you can find. Set motor clutch lever to 0 and side release to M. Remove the pressure plate. See that you have plenty of light and a loupe, if necessary. Inspect the action of the claw while turning the mechanism slowly with the rewind crank. Check whether claw enters perforation and pulls down in the middle of the holes. Check whether claw jumps towards film at less than one eighth revolution of the 1-1 drive shaft. If not, repair is indicated. Push the side spring gently away from film with a toothpick or a match (plastic or wood). See whether it springs back and presses on film edge. The other lateral film guides must rest on the sides of the aperture plate. If not, repair job. I wasn’t able to verify that from the videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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