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15 hours ago, Manu Delpech said:

Okay, Sher is now saying in an interview with Variety that he and Phillips planned to shoot on 70mm (guess he means 65mm 5 perf) but  that WB shot down the idea which really contradicts everything he, Phillips and Greg have said for a while. 

I did see that as well. I think those two sentences are a bit deceiving. They never really got off the ground with 5 perf 65mm from my readings and understanding. It was shot down very early on, way before they dumped the idea of shooting on film all together. Greg's comments were made based on what happened AFTER they dumped 65mm. 

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Yeah but Greg explained to me months before the film was released that the early plan was 65mm indeed and explained why they couldn't shoot on film. We know all that. Sher literally saying that WB refused to shoot on 70mm is a complete contradiction of everything we know which is that Sher and Phillips decided 65mm film wasn't going to work. Obviously, saying that the studio vetoed it, is a whole other thing. 

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8 hours ago, Manu Delpech said:

Yeah but Greg explained to me months before the film was released that the early plan was 65mm indeed and explained why they couldn't shoot on film. We know all that. Sher literally saying that WB refused to shoot on 70mm is a complete contradiction of everything we know which is that Sher and Phillips decided 65mm film wasn't going to work. Obviously, saying that the studio vetoed it, is a whole other thing. 

If I were to hazard a guess, the difference could be between pre-production discussions between director , DP and studio, vs DP to crew discussions after the film is fully budgeted and they're already doing testing. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
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you can listen to all this straight from the horses mouth in these two podcasts.....

The Director's Cut - Todd Phillips talks to I can Reitman about the film.....

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-directors-cut-a-dga-podcast/id1067471691?i=1000454044016

and from the 'Go Creative Show' where the cinematographer Lawrence Sher talks to the host

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cinematography-of-joker-with-lawrence-sher-gcs188/id539359582?i=1000452796721

both director and cinematographer reveal they wanted to shoot 65mm film but were told they could not by Warners. In the end they created a LUT that simulated some Kodak stock from the off when they produced the first dailies.

Very entertaining listens.....I highly recommend them.

Also...I saw the film for the first time last night and its the best acting I have seen in decades...absolutely a wow film for me and I will never forget the impact it has had on me.

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On 10/6/2019 at 7:05 AM, Tyler Purcell said:

...Only reason anyone would know it was shot digitally was from motion blur and some of the over-exposed sections were very digital looking. ...

In what way would motion blur be different with digital?

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this is the best interview with the DP I've heard so far which answers it all

American Cinematographer podcast

https://podcasts.apple.com/es/podcast/american-cinematographer-podcasts/id1259605435?l=en&i=1000460061974

Edited by Stephen Perera
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5 hours ago, Mei Lewis said:

In what way would motion blur be different with digital?

You can't run a film camera at 200 degree shutter, but many people run the shutter angle larger on digital cameras to help compensate for sensitivity. Thus, the motion blur can be very different when using alternative shutter angles that film cameras can't do. 

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1 hour ago, Tyler Purcell said:

You can't run a film camera at 200 degree shutter...

Panavision film cameras ran 200 deg. shutters. I think it was a marketing ploy and really didn’t do much more than the traditional 180 shutter. 
 

G

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20 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

I think Mitchells could also get to 200 degrees, not that 1/6-stop (or whatever it works out to be) more exposure was going to make a difference...

Interesting, I didn't think you could go higher than 180, but I guess 200 isn't that big of a difference. 

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On 12/21/2019 at 4:17 AM, Tyler Purcell said:

You can't run a film camera at 200 degree shutter, but many people run the shutter angle larger on digital cameras to help compensate for sensitivity. Thus, the motion blur can be very different when using alternative shutter angles that film cameras can't do. 

Was any of Joker shot using a 200° or wider shutter?

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5 hours ago, Stuart Brereton said:

Was any of Joker shot using a 200° or wider shutter?

I’m sure we shot with a long shutter many times Stuart on JOKER.  My DIT, Nick Kay is a fan of utilizing shutter with exposure needs to trade off going to a high EI value. Though I don’t have our camera log books anymore, we most likely shot all of the dark, slo mo with a 360 degree shutter.  Currently, Nick and I are employing many of the same strategies on our Marvel show with cinematographer, PJ Dillon (Game of Thrones) in order to serve over-cranked exposure needs for our low light, 8K, anamorphic format. 
 

G
 

 

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1 hour ago, Gregory Irwin said:

I’m sure we shot with a long shutter many times Stuart on JOKER.   My DIT, Nick Kay is a fan of utilizing shutter with exposure needs to trade off going to a high EI value.

 

Thanks for the info, Greg. Isn't that more a decision for the DP than the DIT, though?

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1 hour ago, Gregory Irwin said:

I’m sure we shot with a long shutter many times Stuart on JOKER.  My DIT, Nick Kay is a fan of utilizing shutter with exposure needs to trade off going to a high EI value. Though I don’t have our camera log books anymore, we most likely shot all of the dark, slo mo with a 360 degree shutter.  Currently, Nick and I are employing many of the same strategies on our Marvel show with cinematographer, PJ Dillon (Game of Thrones) in order to serve over-cranked exposure needs for our low light, 8K, anamorphic format. 
 

G
 

 

Say hello to PJ!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is amazing and lovely!!!!! 

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33 minutes ago, Miguel Angel said:

Say hello to PJ!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is amazing and lovely!!!!! 

You know PJ Miguel? He’s a fantastic guy. Good cameraman too! I will say hello for you!

G

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59 minutes ago, Stuart Brereton said:

Thanks for the info, Greg. Isn't that more a decision for the DP than the DIT, though?

Yes and no. It depends on the relationship between the two and the trust level. Also, the DP can establish the rules of the game early on and then allow the team to make decisions within those rules. That way when you as a DP have an “A” list camera team, you don’t have to micromanage. That allows the team to make intelligent decisions, be involved and have a stake in the responsibility for such decisions. 
 

For example, on JOKER, once Larry gave me his parameters for the type of lens requirements he wanted, the actual lens choices were entirely my own.  The lens package was mine to own and if it didn’t work out for some reason, it was my responsibility and that would certainly reflect on the cinematographer. I can’t have that.  I go all in for intelligent choices and thus I have skin in the game. That goes for every member of my camera team whether you are the Key 2nd AC or even the digital loader. Decisions must be independently made for their realm but must fit into the overall goals of the picture. But in the end, the responsibility goes upward to the top making each of us creditworthy (or not) to the boss and production. That’s why camera teams can stay together for years because of the trust levels and track records. 

G

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1 hour ago, Gregory Irwin said:

Yes and no. It depends on the relationship between the two and the trust level. Also, the DP can establish the rules of the game early on and then allow the team to make decisions within those rules. That way when you as a DP have an “A” list camera team, you don’t have to micromanage. That allows the team to make intelligent decisions, be involved and have a stake in the responsibility for such decisions. 
 

For example, on JOKER, once Larry gave me his parameters for the type of lens requirements he wanted, the actual lens choices were entirely my own.  The lens package was mine to own and if it didn’t work out for some reason, it was my responsibility and that would certainly reflect on the cinematographer. I can’t have that.  I go all in for intelligent choices and thus I have skin in the game. That goes for every member of my camera team whether you are the Key 2nd AC or even the digital loader. Decisions must be independently made for their realm but must fit into the overall goals of the picture. But in the end, the responsibility goes upward to the top making each of us creditworthy (or not) to the boss and production. That’s why camera teams can stay together for years because of the trust levels and track records. 

G

Hi Mr Irwin.....when I saw JOKER.....masterpiece by the way.....chapeau.......I was all throughout the film thinking the lenses used looked familiar to me....the drop off between focus and off focus and the look of three dimensionality.....it all felt really familiar.....now I have no idea what lenses were used but they looked Hasselblad......like the Zeiss Planar 80mm and the Distagon 50mm and the Planar FE 110mm f2 rehoused or whatever they do to work with the large format motion picture cameras......can you tell us what lenses were used......

Edited by Stephen Perera
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15 minutes ago, Stephen Perera said:

Hi Mr Irwin.....when I saw JOKER.....masterpiece by the way.....chapeau.......I was all throughout the film thinking the lenses used looked familiar to me....the drop off between focus and off focus and the look of three dimensionality.....it all felt really familiar.....now I have no idea what lenses were used but they looked Hasselblad......like the Zeiss Planar 80mm and the Distagon 50mm and the Planar FE 110mm f2 rehoused or whatever they do to work with the large format motion picture cameras......can you tell us what lenses were used......

Pictured here is my “cheat sheet” of our lenses. In reality, the Canon T1.3s, the Leica 90mm  and the Nikon 58mm were the work horse lenses that were employed the most. It’s a bit of a Frankenstein lens package at best! I was able to detune certain lenses to make them match better in terms of color an contrast as well. Arri Rental in NYC was instrumental to us achieving the look we were trying to achieve. 
 

G
 

C13C760D-27F1-4B4C-89A9-21861AEF3398.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Gregory Irwin said:

You know PJ Miguel? He’s a fantastic guy. Good cameraman too! I will say hello for you!

G

Yeap!!! He was the teacher on a course that I did on cinematography many years ago down in Listowel, Kerry, where he is from.

I'm sure that he hasn't forgotten about me because we had a bit of a misunderstanding on Black Promist filters! ? (Hopefully he has forgotten that? Ha!) 

He was actually the one who pushed me to become a cinematographer and shoot things instead of working as a 2nd unit dop (if that makes sense) even though he might have not realised that at the time he was very encouraging and a really good teacher. 

On top of that, he was the dop on Vikings when I was one of the 2nd acs on it! 

Definitely one of the best cinematographers I have had the privilege of working with. 

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1 hour ago, Gregory Irwin said:

Pictured here is my “cheat sheet” of our lenses. In reality, the Canon T1.3s, the Leica 90mm  and the Nikon 58mm were the work horse lenses that were employed the most. It’s a bit of a Frankenstein lens package at best! I was able to detune certain lenses to make them match better in terms of color an contrast as well. Arri Rental in NYC was instrumental to us achieving the look we were trying to achieve. 
 

G
 

C13C760D-27F1-4B4C-89A9-21861AEF3398.jpeg

Super interesting thanks for posting this much appreciated.....which are DNA lenses? Never heard of these

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13 minutes ago, Stephen Perera said:

Super interesting thanks for posting this much appreciated.....which are DNA lenses? Never heard of these

The DNAs are made by ARRI for their large format cameras like the Alexa 65. They are decent pro-sumer lenses at best as far as I’m concerned. 
 

G

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4 hours ago, Miguel Angel said:

Yeap!!! He was the teacher on a course that I did on cinematography many years ago down in Listowel, Kerry, where he is from.

I'm sure that he hasn't forgotten about me because we had a bit of a misunderstanding on Black Promist filters! ? (Hopefully he has forgotten that? Ha!) 

He was actually the one who pushed me to become a cinematographer and shoot things instead of working as a 2nd unit dop (if that makes sense) even though he might have not realised that at the time he was very encouraging and a really good teacher. 

On top of that, he was the dop on Vikings when I was one of the 2nd acs on it! 

Definitely one of the best cinematographers I have had the privilege of working with. 

That’s awesome! I’ll be sure to show him this. He’ll enjoy it. Merry Christmas Miguel!

G

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Thanks for sharing your lens choices on Joker, Greg. It really was a very mixed bag, but the final product looks fantastic!

Were the Canons the CN-E Primes with PL mount conversions? 

And were the Leicas rehoused Leica-Rs? 

And the Nikon was the Zero Optik rehousing? 

Interesting that you didn’t much use the dedicated 65mm lens lines that Arri offer (or Leica Thalias), but gravitated towards older stills designs.

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