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Dream 'job', massive budget - would you shoot digital or film?


Stephen Perera

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21 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

 

Director wants film and is a film guy
DP wants digital and is a digital guy
Film was shot digitally 

 

Here’s another equation:

Director wants film and is a film guy

Director is convinced to shoot digital 

Director wins awards and earns $100M in income  

Director LOVES digital!

?

 

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10 minutes ago, Gregory Irwin said:

Here’s another equation:

Director wants film and is a film guy

Director is convinced to shoot digital 

Director wins awards and earns $100M in income  

Director LOVES digital!

?

 

For whatever it's worth, it was one of the best looking films I've seen all year, also a great story, I wouldn't have changed a thing-- saw it on a big IMAX screen 

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14 minutes ago, Dennis Toeppen said:

Arri 765s jam? If so, it's coming off my xmas wish list.

Well all large format cameras have jamming issues, but the 765 is the worst of them all evidently. I was told by the Arri rental that the loop area was too small and if the loops weren't perfect, it would basically jam the camera. Very few people rent them as well because the price is crazy since you have to rent the special lens kit to go along with it. 

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15 minutes ago, Jon O'Brien said:

With respect, isn't that forgetting the rather exasperated comments of many here.

I mean, feel free to call them. Arri rental New York. On their website, the page for the 765 isn't even online anymore. They told me a few years ago when I talked to them, that the 765's were going to be retired soon because they couldn't support them anymore. They only made a few of them and they've been cannibalizing parts from broken ones for a while now and if those parts dry up, then that's one more camera down.  

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2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Well all large format cameras have jamming issues, but the 765 is the worst of them all evidently.

Arri Rental told you that?

2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

 I was told by the Arri rental that the loop area was too small and if the loops weren't perfect, it would basically jam the camera. 

So from that information you deduced that 765s are the worst out of any large format camera for jamming issues? 

Do you know about the buckle switches in Arriflexes that trip when the loop size is wrong? Is that the kind of jam you mean, where the camera switches off to prevent a jam and you have to adjust the loop before filming again?  

I'm sure when Arri Rental were kind enough to explain to you a little about the 765 and the need for an accurate loop they weren't expecting you to go on a forum and more or less quote them as saying their camera is the worst 65mm camera for jamming. More fool them for talking to you I guess.

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22 minutes ago, Dom Jaeger said:

Arri Rental told you that?

Yep, they basically said the 765 had issues with jamming and that I'd need a super good AC who knew the camera well. 

22 minutes ago, Dom Jaeger said:

So from that information you deduced that 765s are the worst out of any large format camera for jamming issues? 

According to the guy at Arri, he said the tolerances on the camera were very tight for the areas needed for the upper and lower loop. Thus, as you point out, the camera will just tap those switches and shut off very easily. They said it's nearly impossible to go a day of shooting without losing a take because it just shuts off. 

22 minutes ago, Dom Jaeger said:

I'm sure when Arri Rental were kind enough to explain to you a little about the 765 and the need for an accurate loop they weren't expecting you to go on a forum and more or less quote them as saying their camera is the worst 65mm camera for jamming. More fool them for talking to you I guess.

Again, I'm just reporting on what they told me. I was putting together a budget to shoot a feature on 65mm and I talked to Arri, Panavision and some private owners of cameras in order to get a feel for the camera rental budget. Everyone I talked with mentioned how they like to stop working more than 35mm cameras do. They said you'll shoot less pages per day as a consequence, so make sure to budget those added days. I haven't used a 65mm camera, so I wouldn't know but I have to believe what they say. If I don't believe it, then I'm the fool. 

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As I have understood, the main reason why 765 is and was rarely used is because it is heavy as hell and big and thus challenging to use for modern cinematography. That is why Panavision has been more popular for 65mm work. It is not that the Arri would not be a good camera, it is just impractical for most 65mm work

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I don't understand this whole whining about cameras being picky about the loop size. I am regularly shooting with Konvas cameras and they jam if the loop size is wrong by ONE perforation. Still rarely having any problems. Not a single jam in the past 2 or 3 years

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2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Yep, they basically said the 765 had issues with jamming and that I'd need a super good AC who knew the camera well. 

So actually, no - Arri didn’t tell you the 765 was the worst large format camera of them all for having jamming issues, and you can’t back up that claim. You basically made that up. 

In fact, I doubt they said it has “jamming issues” at all. They most likely just mentioned that when loading a 765 the loop needs to be carefully set or you might trip the film jam warning, meaning the buckle switch. No actual jamming involved.

11 hours ago, Dennis Toeppen said:

Arri 765s jam? If so, it's coming off my xmas wish list.

Please don’t change your Xmas wish list Dennis! Better to believe in Santa than Tyler!

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the Arri rental still has it listed on the page BTW. 

Seems to be around 32kg / 70lbs with the smallest magazine. It is just like someone superglued two or three fully equipped 535's together to a big solid chunk and then trying to shoot something with it. It is more handy than a blimped Mitchell but you get the idea.

See why they tend to like Panavision's 65mm stuff more? anyone like to try that 32kg beast on a steadicam?

https://www.arrirental.de/camera/65-mm-film/arriflex-765/

Edited by aapo lettinen
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23 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Greg said straight up, Larry wanted to shoot digital, period. So one can draw a direct line from "Larry wanted to shoot digital" to "Larry convinced Todd to shoot digital". 

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Anyway.... 

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

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10 minutes ago, Satsuki Murashige said:

Lol, ok... None of that was ever in dispute, and you know that. But whatever man, I give up. You win!! 

You did your best, Satsuki, but there's no point banging your head against a brick wall. 

I suspect we'll all be back here again in the not too distant future, vainly trying to battle against the next ridiculous/arrogant/delusional statement.

Happy Thanksgiving!

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1 hour ago, Dennis Toeppen said:

Maybe I'll just get some Master Primes instead of buying a 765... 

?

Dennis.. there are many known issues with the Master Primes..  ..  mainly being they render the image upside down !..duh.. known to cause camera jam.. and expose the power boards to rain through small holes in the side  ..I was the first person to see this glaring mistake.... Ive had endless problems with them shooting big features here in Hollywerid .. I pointed out the problem to my AC but he didn't even see it as flaw .. fools.. I studied optic's at the Sorbonne in Paris for 15 years ..so trust me ..I know what I'm talking about   its just pure laziness and contempt for the end user .. Zeis /Arri have been crap for years now.. I dont use them anymore and instruct my students not to either .. anyway they only work on Digital camera,s now.. which uses different light . GGrrr...dont get me started !! 

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On 11/28/2019 at 4:43 AM, Dom Jaeger said:

So actually, no - Arri didn’t tell you the 765 was the worst large format camera of them all for having jamming issues, and you can’t back up that claim. You basically made that up. 

I talked with Jim at Panavision a few times about using the 5 perf cameras and even he mentioned how tricky the Arri was compared to the Panavision camera. So that's Arri, Panavision and my friends who shoot 65mm on a regular basis, all telling me the Arri camera was a pain to keep working. We all kinda joke about it because the Arri is extremely advanced compared to the Panavision and the direct drive motor design was similar to what Arri went on to use on the 35mm cameras. So technically, the 765 is a marvel of engineering and a first, but these days they're old and worn out. So who knows if the issues were inherent in the original design or something that's from wear and tear. I frankly don't care because I don't have a time machine and if I shoot 65mm in the future, those are the "current" issues anyone who is shooting 65mm will be dealing with. 

On 11/28/2019 at 4:43 AM, Dom Jaeger said:

In fact, I doubt they said it has “jamming issues” at all. They most likely just mentioned that when loading a 765 the loop needs to be carefully set or you might trip the film jam warning, meaning the buckle switch. No actual jamming involved.

I mean his point is that you could be mid take and it will all of a sudden stop running, losing that take and of course a foot of film or so as you "fix" the camera. That's hard to deal with if it keeps happening. 

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