65 mm film stock brands

[Carl Nenzen Loven]

Hey everyone,

Like most in this forum I'm a hardcore film nut, and like to learn more every day, to understand the medium and improve. Now with the resurge of 65 film for Kodak, and people ramping up hand rolling short ends into their cameras, I was curious to know what companies that actually made 65 mm film.

Kodak still does, but did Fuji ever venture into the IMAX / 65mm size? Were there other options?

And also, has anyone ever made a black/white 65 mm stock? (clearly a VERY specific look but...)

C

[Aapo Lettinen]

film stock is made in wide master rolls and then cut to the desired widths which fit different cameras. And then perforated and wound up in small rolls which the cameras can use. So theoretically any film stock could be used in a movie camera as long as the antistatic characteristics and anti halation are good enough for that use. If that's the case, one only needs to slit it to the desired format width and perforate it so that it would work in the camera (with the possible need to fine tune the camera before use of course). All the film manufacturing companies may not have tools or financial interest to make their products available in 65mm format (lacking the perforating tools) but if you can get the stuff they make to slit down and perforated to the specs elsewhere there is no reason why it would not work. As long as the company agrees to sell you the raw material in suitable sizes which can be used for this work. 

Probably you could get most of the currently available film stocks to work in a 65mm camera if you are ready to pay enough for the companies to sell you a master roll and get it slit down and perforated. Just needs lots of financial resources and a real commercial use for the stock to make it possible.

[Aapo Lettinen]

2 minutes ago, aapo lettinen said:

Probably you could get most of the currently available film stocks to work in a 65mm camera if you are ready to pay enough 

that meaning ANY film stock... the stills films too. 

 

The reason why film is made in wide master rolls is because the edges of the roll are always uneven and have to be cut out. So there will be less waste if one always coats a very wide roll and then just slits it down to smaller formats. That way much larger percent of the coated material is good quality and usable.

[Carl Nenzen Loven]

29 minutes ago, aapo lettinen said:

that meaning ANY film stock... the stills films too. 

 

The reason why film is made in wide master rolls is because the edges of the roll are always uneven and have to be cut out. So there will be less waste if one always coats a very wide roll and then just slits it down to smaller formats. That way much larger percent of the coated material is good quality and usable.

I think you are misreading my question.

I am curious what companies that MADE 65 mm perforated back in the heyday. All those IMAX movies we saw as kids, was it always Kodak? Or did any other company try to make stock as well in those sizes.

 

C

[David Mullen ASC]

Fuji also made 65mm film on special order. I could definitely be mistaken, but I thought I heard that the 3D IMAX film "Wings of Courage" was shot on Fuji 65mm film. 

[Aapo Lettinen]

49 minutes ago, Carl Nenzen Loven said:

I think you are misreading my question.

I am curious what companies that MADE 65 mm perforated back in the heyday. All those IMAX movies we saw as kids, was it always Kodak? Or did any other company try to make stock as well in those sizes.

 

C

Oh you meant like 30 years ago, not today.  The typo was misleading :) 

[Carl Nenzen Loven]

2 minutes ago, aapo lettinen said:

Oh you meant like 30 years ago, not today.  The typo was misleading ?

What typo?

It says made in the original post ?

C

[Simon Wyss]

Agfa-Gevaert used to produce wide film, too. 65 and 70

Film Ferrania have wide film perforators, one for 105 mm I know of for sure.

[Malcolm Ian Vu]

6 hours ago, Carl Nenzen Loven said:

And also, has anyone ever made a black/white 65 mm stock? (clearly a VERY specific look but...)

C

The Bat Whispers  (1930) was shot in a 65mm format, so yes.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I heard that Kubrick shot the first week of "Full Metal Jacket" in 65mm b&w and then ditched the format and footage. David Lean planned originally to shoot "Dr. Zhivago" in 65mm b&w.

I'm sure it would be a special order item from Kodak, you just have to order enough of it to be worth the time.

[John Holland]

The Russians had a 65mm stock called Sovcolor.

[Jarin Blaschke]

On 4/29/2020 at 4:05 PM, David Mullen ASC said:

I heard that Kubrick shot the first week of "Full Metal Jacket" in 65mm b&w and then ditched the format and footage. David Lean planned originally to shoot "Dr. Zhivago" in 65mm b&w.

I'm sure it would be a special order item from Kodak, you just have to order enough of it to be worth the time.

One of these days I'll ask Fotokem whether their B&W machine could handle 65mm. A recurring fantasy of mine.

65mm Tri-X would be the ultimate medium. If one could make it work with finicky pyrogallol developer, the perfect moving monochrome image.

[David Mullen ASC]

42 minutes ago, Jarin Blaschke said:

One of these days I'll ask Fotokem whether their B&W machine could handle 65mm. A recurring fantasy of mine.

65mm Tri-X would be the ultimate medium. If one could make it work with finicky pyrogallol developer, the perfect moving monochrome image.

Wouldn't that be great? Shoot a western that looked like an 8x10 William Henry Jackson photo... Actually, have you seen the 65mm version of "The Big Trail" (1930)?

[Jarin Blaschke]

No! Ignoramus! I’ll look for it.

I shoot 8x10” film almost exclusively myself, including family photos, so it’s all a serious downgrade when I shoot a movie.

Those 18x22” contact prints Carleton Watkins made are something else. The more difficult the medium makes the photograph, the easier it makes the print.

I’m astounded at the lengths Watkins, O’Sullivan and others had to take to make a mammoth plate photograph in wet collodion in their conditions. A photograph, on fragile glass, on an emulsion that becomes insensitive a few minutes after it is mixed from scratch... mixed in total darkness, in a makeshift tent in absolute wilderness, all 22 inches of image without dust or irregularity of coating. Processing is conducted in haste but perfectly in wilderness. Then the fragile glass image travels on wooden wheels over wilderness for months without breaking or becoming clouded in dust. The Ether and other exotic, volatile chemicals travel similarly for months without fire, explosion or suffocation of the proprietor....

THAT’S PHOTOGRAPHY.

 

j

 

[Simon Wyss]

On 4/30/2020 at 7:58 AM, John Holland said:

The Russians had a 65mm stock called Sovcolor.

Sov/Sowcolor was Agfacolor.

There was no 65-mm. gauge in the Eastern Block, all stocks were 70 mm wide, negative, intermediate, positive.

The 1929 wide-film story, Fox Grandeur, was also based on 70-mm. stock. http://www.cinemagear.com/mitchell_fc.html

65 mm was introduced by the Todd-A. O. team, if not Eastman-Kodak, when it was realised that camera stock doesn’t need the margins the prints have that carry magnetic stripes.

Almost at the same time, CinemaScope-55 made use of a width a little over 55 mm. https://www.in70mm.com/news/2005/cinemascope_55/index.htm

[David Mullen ASC]

The Criterion blu-ray of "War and Peace" mentions somewhere that they ditched their plans to use Kodak 65mm color negative when it because a matter of national pride to use Sovcolor -- which caused all sorts of problems, shots had to be constantly redone due to stock problems.

[Phil Rhodes]

On 5/5/2020 at 7:04 AM, Jarin Blaschke said:

No! Ignoramus! I’ll look for it.

I shoot 8x10” film almost exclusively myself, including family photos, so it’s all a serious downgrade when I shoot a movie.

Those 18x22” contact prints Carleton Watkins made are something else. The more difficult the medium makes the photograph, the easier it makes the print.

I’m astounded at the lengths Watkins, O’Sullivan and others had to take to make a mammoth plate photograph in wet collodion in their conditions. A photograph, on fragile glass, on an emulsion that becomes insensitive a few minutes after it is mixed from scratch... mixed in total darkness, in a makeshift tent in absolute wilderness, all 22 inches of image without dust or irregularity of coating. Processing is conducted in haste but perfectly in wilderness. Then the fragile glass image travels on wooden wheels over wilderness for months without breaking or becoming clouded in dust. The Ether and other exotic, volatile chemicals travel similarly for months without fire, explosion or suffocation of the proprietor....

THAT’S PHOTOGRAPHY.

 

j

 

Let's build Jarin a movie camera that shoots 8x10 frames.

And a blimp for it.

[Dom Jaeger]

1 hour ago, Phil Rhodes said:

Let's build Jarin a movie camera that shoots 8x10 frames.

And a blimp for it.

A bit of a cheat but:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/01/03/this-18-year-old-photographer-built-his-own-8x10-large-format-video-camera/

We might have to replace the digital camera bit with an Arriflex 765, but if we all chip in..

[Scott Pickering]

I asked Fotokem once a few years back about shooting 65mm B&W. They said they have a machine that can do it, but its not in operation. They considered it and came back and said they won't use it as it wasn't worth their effort to put it in operation. I'd love to see an old Western in 65mm IMAX in B&W though. 

[John Shell]

On 4/29/2020 at 7:11 PM, David Mullen ASC said:

I could definitely be mistaken, but I thought I heard that the 3D IMAX film "Wings of Courage" was shot on Fuji 65mm film. 

It was and Fuji supplied the film for free. This info is from ascmag 08/1995

Edited January 28, 2023 by John Shell
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