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How to use uk scaff tube with American speedrail fittings?


imran qureshi

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I am looking to purchase a pipe boom/menace arm kit, problem is that they all take american size speedrail either 1 1/4 (42.164 OD) or 1 1/2 (48.26 OD).

 

This size aluminium pipe is quite difficult to find in the UK,  What uk size scaff tube would I buy to use these rigs?
 

And also does alloy type matter? Because i know that american speedrail is 6061-t6 grade but this is difficult to find in the uk

Many thanks!

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Speedrail sizes are weird; the stated size is not actually the tube OD.

You can get 48.42mm aluminium scaffold tube here:

https://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/aluminium/round-tube/outside-diameter/1-29/32-in-(48.42-mm)

You are right to state that the larger size is 48.26 OD, and that basically is scaffold tube. It's a fraction less than 50mm, usually. I would expect most scaffold and lighting clamps to fit, though naturally if you're using this stuff to produce overhead rigs supporting heavy objects, you need to take a reasonable amount of care. Note that most of this is 6082, not 6061, and I don't know how much that matters.

P

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18 minutes ago, Phil Rhodes said:

Speedrail sizes are weird; the stated size is not actually the tube OD.

You can get 48.42mm aluminium scaffold tube here:

https://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/aluminium/round-tube/outside-diameter/1-29/32-in-(48.42-mm)

You are right to state that the larger size is 48.26 OD, and that basically is scaffold tube. It's a fraction less than 50mm, usually. I would expect most scaffold and lighting clamps to fit, though naturally if you're using this stuff to produce overhead rigs supporting heavy objects, you need to take a reasonable amount of care. Note that most of this is 6082, not 6061, and I don't know how much that matters.

P

Thanks as always Phill!!

in terms of heavy over head rigging, I just want to rig a 4 bank kino (about 12kg) obviously including the scaff tubes and clamps it will probably be about 20- 25kg boomed above frame line on a menace arm for interiors (so probably about 10ft high)

In terms of the 1 1/4 menace arm kit (not really 1 1/4 as you know but really 42.164mm OD), i can find tube in the uk that is 42.4mm, do you think this would be okay? Or do you think i should just scrap the idea?

In terms of the alloy type/grade, I will have to do more research. Not sure why there aren't any menace arm grip kits made for uk pipe, seems a bit strange. 
 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, imran qureshi said:

in terms of heavy over head rigging, I just want to rig a 4 bank kino (about 12kg) obviously including the scaff tubes and clamps it will probably be about 20- 25kg boomed above frame line on a menace arm for interiors (so probably about 10ft high)

I suspect it's pretty obvious that's enough to hurt a lot. I might hesitate to do that. The amount of torque generated by a 20-kilo weight on the end of a long arm like that is huge.

That said I do understand the desire to get light overhead. I'm always more convinced by goalpost setups; a piece of tube between two stands. The torque is handled better, though it takes up more space.

On the basis we've never met and I've no idea of your experience, I'm not entirely comfortable recommending you put a 20 kilo weight over someone's head. It's all fun and games until there's blood running down someone's face. Is there any chance you could at least get some qualified help in? Where are you, roughly?

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1 hour ago, Phil Rhodes said:

I suspect it's pretty obvious that's enough to hurt a lot. I might hesitate to do that. The amount of torque generated by a 20-kilo weight on the end of a long arm like that is huge.

That said I do understand the desire to get light overhead. I'm always more convinced by goalpost setups; a piece of tube between two stands. The torque is handled better, though it takes up more space.

On the basis we've never met and I've no idea of your experience, I'm not entirely comfortable recommending you put a 20 kilo weight over someone's head. It's all fun and games until there's blood running down someone's face. Is there any chance you could at least get some qualified help in? Where are you, roughly?

I am also constructing a goal post rig but thought as I getting the scaff tubes anyway, I may as well invest in a menace arm kit to have as another option.
 

I’m based in Leicester and I'm a film production uni student soon to graduate.

Right now I'm just researching, I wouldn't go ahead with it unless I had confirmation it was safe by someone qualified. 

I should add as well, im not working on anything specific, I just wanted to have a solution generally to hide backlights from above for wide shots for whatever I'm working on. 

 

its a slightly frustrating experience though because I don't really know anyone so just relying on the internet and most is US centric stuff.

thanks!

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21 hours ago, imran qureshi said:

I am also constructing a goal post rig but thought as I getting the scaff tubes anyway, I may as well invest in a menace arm kit to have as another option.
 

I’m based in Leicester and I'm a film production uni student soon to graduate.

Right now I'm just researching, I wouldn't go ahead with it unless I had confirmation it was safe by someone qualified. 

I should add as well, im not working on anything specific, I just wanted to have a solution generally to hide backlights from above for wide shots for whatever I'm working on. 

 

its a slightly frustrating experience though because I don't really know anyone so just relying on the internet and most is US centric stuff.

thanks!

OK, fair enough.

I get what you mean about things being US centric the second you start asking about film stuff. I'm in Essex, which is the also the dark side of the moon as far as film and TV goes.

You may have read up on this, but for the sake of completeness, the tube size thing comes from US pipe schedule standards. If something's "pipe" it's generally specified in terms of its inside diameter, whereas "tube" is often specified in terms of outside diameter. It just happens that speedrail was based on schedule 40 pipe, and schedule 40 pipe has a 0.140" (3.55mm) wall thickness.

...yes, it's daft.

But anyway, you can tube from that supplier in a huge variety of sizes and their prices are pretty decent, though watch out for delivery; if you're going to need a bunch of stuff, get it all at once. I don't know how suitable any of it is for any particular task. Beyond that all I can say is take care; build it in the back yard, shove it, see if it falls over. Imagine how it might fall, imagine the thing taking a chunk out of someone's eyeball.

If you're a film production student can the university put you in touch with someone who's experienced in this, maybe get them to come in and give you and go through the dos and don'ts at least?

Don't skimp on sandbags.

P

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On 3/16/2021 at 7:01 PM, Phil Rhodes said:

OK, fair enough.

I get what you mean about things being US centric the second you start asking about film stuff. I'm in Essex, which is the also the dark side of the moon as far as film and TV goes.

You may have read up on this, but for the sake of completeness, the tube size thing comes from US pipe schedule standards. If something's "pipe" it's generally specified in terms of its inside diameter, whereas "tube" is often specified in terms of outside diameter. It just happens that speedrail was based on schedule 40 pipe, and schedule 40 pipe has a 0.140" (3.55mm) wall thickness.

...yes, it's daft.

But anyway, you can tube from that supplier in a huge variety of sizes and their prices are pretty decent, though watch out for delivery; if you're going to need a bunch of stuff, get it all at once. I don't know how suitable any of it is for any particular task. Beyond that all I can say is take care; build it in the back yard, shove it, see if it falls over. Imagine how it might fall, imagine the thing taking a chunk out of someone's eyeball.

If you're a film production student can the university put you in touch with someone who's experienced in this, maybe get them to come in and give you and go through the dos and don'ts at least?

Don't skimp on sandbags.

P

I think I will probably leave the pipe boom/menace arm until i either get the exact size of schedule 40 speed rail that goes with the kit some how or just save up for a mathews mini max or something of the like, although its definitely too expensive for me at the moment.  Shame though!
 

The goalpost rig I shall go ahead with regular 48.3mm scaff tube and construct it in the garden and make sure its safe as you say, thanks!

in terms of my university, in all honesty I have tried many times to ask them for help but my film lecturers don’t really know what these rigs are or anything about grip so not a huge help so I suppose the internet/books is all I have at the moment untill i make some contacts but thanks very much for the advise!

 

 

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1 hour ago, imran qureshi said:

in all honesty I have tried many times to ask them for help but my film lecturers don’t really know what these rigs are or anything about grip

...yeesh. Is this a film production course or a film theory course?

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1 minute ago, Phil Rhodes said:

...yeesh. Is this a film production course or a film theory course?

Its a film production course. I have an extremely dim view of the course to say the least but not sure if I should expand publicly just in case haha

for the equipment its useful I guess.

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Pipe is designed to hold pressure and the ID is given because one also needs that dimension to calculate Volume.

The Schedule naming also lets you know the thickness and that indicates the pressure the pipe can hold.


Tube is structural so the OD matters when fabricating. 


 

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