James Rhodes Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 I recently purchased a very nice Cine-Kodak Special 16mm camera on eBay (the original model with the flat, non-divergent turret). The serial number is 4736. Does anyone have an idea when it was manufactured? I'm thinking late 30's or early 40's. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Forrest Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Are there any letters with the number? They would tell you the month and year according to the CAMEROSITY production codes. Phil Forrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Rhodes Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 No, just the numbers 4736. I think it was made before the CAMEROSITY code was used. The literature that came with the camera is dated from the late 30s to the early 40s, which may be a clue. It has the original mask set, the care instructions have the date code 6-38. The 100 foot magazine that came with it is stamped 100-6161. I can't be sure it was the original one that came with the camera, though. I know the same magazines were used with the Cine-Special II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Rhodes Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 Here are some photos that may be helpful. The turret plate is different from others I've seen, which are usually either missing or have exposure tables printed on them. This one is solid black. The 15mm lens finder glass is cracked, otherwise the camera is in excellent condition, with only minor wear. I'm surprised Kodak hasn't provided a reference for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted June 16, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted June 16, 2021 The way I read the serial number your camera is from 1937, 4 for fourth year of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Rhodes Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 Thanks, Simon. That's good to know. I'm very impressed with it, and after oiling it I looking forward to using it, mainly for time-lapse and other single-frame work. It's a very heavy, seemingly well made camera with many of the features of the Bolex H16 cameras for a much lower price. By the way, reading your previous positive comments on these cameras is one of the reasons I purchased it. I have been considering getting one for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Rhodes Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 It just occurred to me that if the camera was in the fourth year of production, might it not have been manufactured in 1936? Year 1=1933, year 2=1934, year 3=1935, year 4=1936. The serial number 4736 ends in 36, which might also be significant. If the 7 indicates month, perhaps it was made in July of 1936, in the fourth year of production? Just a thought. Thanks, Simon and Philip for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Rhodes Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 The flaw with my previous comment is it only allows for one camera to be produced per month-highly unlikely! So it was probably manufactured in 1936 or 1937, if the first number represents the production year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted June 17, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted June 17, 2021 See, that’s why I’m in movies and not in space rockets, my knowledge of mathematics is too poor. It can be just a plain number without any meaning, we don’t know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cleveland Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Simon Wyss said: The way I read the serial number your camera is from 1937, 4 for fourth year of production. There is no such connection. The number is just a straight sequential serial number. No production year, no codes. Just a number. The number of your camera would place it somewhere around 1940, if production was fairly consistent from year to year. There were about 9000 CS-I cameras made between 1933 and 1948. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cleveland Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 hours ago, James Rhodes said: Here are some photos that may be helpful. The turret plate is different from others I've seen, which are usually either missing or have exposure tables printed on them. This one is solid black. The 15mm lens finder glass is cracked, otherwise the camera is in excellent condition, with only minor wear. I'm surprised Kodak hasn't provided a reference for this. , Kodak very likely does not have a reference for this, but I've been collecting serial numbers on these for years. Part of my reply to Simon below should have been addressed to you. Proportionally, yours would fall sometime around 1940, so maybe give or take a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cleveland Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 14 hours ago, James Rhodes said: The 100 foot magazine that came with it is stamped 100-6161. I can't be sure it was the original one that came with the camera, though. I know the same magazines were used with the Cine-Special II. That number is in the correct sequence to be the original mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Rhodes Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 Thanks for the information, Simon and Michael. 9000 cameras produced in a fifteen year period works out to about 600 per year. It doesn’t seem like that many, but the first half of its production run was during the Great Depression, and these cameras were very expensive for the average person. So I can tentatively date the camera around 1940/41, give or take a couple of years. The brass plate under the turret where owners would have their names engraved is blank, so no clues there. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Rhodes Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 I think I may have the likely answer. I checked the serial number of the 25mm Anastigmat lens that likely was sold with the camera, as they generally came with this standard lens. The serial number is EY00458. Refer to the excerpt below from bnphoto.org/bnphoto/LFN/KodakID_htm: Kodak assigned serial numbers to Anastigmat Special/Anastar and Ektar lens. Prior to about 1940 it used a single numeric sequence, 54321†, while serial numbers after that were alpha-numeric, two letters and three or four numbers -- ES3682. The letters in the U. S. were mapped to the word (sic) "CAMEROSITY", while in England, the mapping was to "CUMBERLAND". http://www.bnphoto.org/bnphoto/LFN/KodakID_db_bak0910_files/camerosity.gif EY = 1940 EC = 1941 EA = 1942 EM = 1943 EE = 1944 ER = 1945 EO = 1946 ES = 1947 EI = 1948 ET = 1949 RY = 1950 RC = 1951 RA = 1952 RM = 1953 RE = 1954 RR = 1955 RO = 1956 RS = 1957 RI = 1958 RT = 1959 OY = 1960 OC = 1961 OA = 1962 OM = 1963 OE = 1964 OR = 1965 OO = 1966 OS = 1967 OI = 1968 OT = 1969 The EY prefix of the lens serial number dates the camera/lens combination to 1940. Michael nailed it! Thanks for your input, Philip, Simon, and Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cleveland Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 That is a good way to date these, provided you are fairly certain the lens is the original one with the camera. Yours also fits in sequence so probably is, but I would be cautious in general trying to date these that way because lenses were often switched, upgraded, added by later owners, or simply replaced, so it's one of those things that warrants care and is most credible when all the numbers are in the proper range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Rhodes Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share Posted June 18, 2021 I agree with you, Michael, that is would be wise to consider the lens date circumstantial evidence. I wouldn't say with certainty it dates from 1940, but it is probably very close to that date (circa 1940). It will probably be impossible to state with certainty the exact year of manufacture, since Kodak didn't appear to keep detailed records of their early models like Paillard-Bolex. One of the reasons I bought it, besides its collector's value, is that I can do basic lubrication on it myself and it's still a viable camera for the single-frame work I intend to do with it. Eastman Kodak very thoughtfully provided lubrication ports throughout the camera. Plus I have read on this forum that it's not terribly difficult to disassemble for a thorough cleaning and greasing. I will wait on that until I get a copy of the military service manual. I have the parts list but that's all it is: a parts list. Right now it runs nice and smooth for an 80+ year-old camera, and I'm good with that. Thanks, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now