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Shortage of 16mm 7219 and 7213?


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Could be related to shortages in acetate base? In still photography films Portra 800 and ColorPlus 200 are now on estar base due to it. Growing popularity of film might be having some effect too...

As for MP stocks, Silbersalz35 has had shortages and delays, but no idea if they are related to lack of film stock.

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Hey Dirk. Tried ordering stock directly from Kodak 2 weeks ago and they could only forward me contacts of private customers which had some rolls to sell. From what I’ve been told they expect most stocks from past orders to be shipped within a month. Over the next few weeks the situation is expected to come back to normal. Although 7219 might remain hard to get due to a significantly greater demand. 

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13 hours ago, Karim D. Ghantous said:

In this economy?

What economy are you referring to? Is this meant to sound favorable or unfavorable?

The supply chain is problematic worldwide right now. If Kodak has any dependency on shipping of materials, they like many manufacturers right now aren't going to be able to keep product on hand.

This is a completely unrelated product but serves as an example of the kind of things companies are running up against:

https://emulsive.org/articles/news/announcement-kodak-supply-chain-issues-require-a-temporary-change-to-all-35mm-canisters-effective-immediately

We also don't know how much Kodak actually intends to manufacture. Just because demand may be higher doesn't necessarily mean production is trying to meet that (even if it could). Behind the scenes other factors like cost of goods (margin) etc can play a role and we'd never know. Shipping costs are eating away at margin for many. Cost for moving a 40 foot shipping container is 4x what is was last year.

And then there are the logistics - all the green dots offshore are ships just waiting.

1584198105_ScreenShot2021-09-19at10_44_15AM.png.2e706271e5c876b7f694801fc3e00060.png

All speculation...but it's really rough out there right now.

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11 hours ago, John Rizzo said:

The Demand for 16mm film has risen significantly for Kodak and they have been having trouble keeping up with demand. 

Another Problem is building back up their work force in Rochester, Right now there are many job openings in the film manufacturing area.

If I had those skills I'd consider it. I mean, damn, do people not want jobs anymore?

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We have lots and lots of 16mm in the lab getting souped and I think it is just a case of high demand outstripping supply for now.

Hopefully Kodak can catch up I have been hearing that 7219 is about two weeks out from customers talking to Kodak.

B&H had some but I think they sold out quickly when they reopened after the holiday.

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Demand is super high, but honestly, rentals have been down. Everyone I know who has a rental camera, has been dead in the water. I wonder if its owners who are shooting or bigger productions? Seems odd that 16mm is so dead. 

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5 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Demand is super high, but honestly, rentals have been down. Everyone I know who has a rental camera, has been dead in the water. I wonder if its owners who are shooting or bigger productions? Seems odd that 16mm is so dead. 

It could be either one - or both. Perhaps some people who have been previously renting have realized they are going to shoot 16mm so much that it's worth it to own a 16mm camera? Looking at different forums and Ebay it seems people (non-collector) have been buying 16mm cameras left and right.

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I can't help but to wonder... with the resurgence of film photography, ever rising demand for film (https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/35mm-c41-film-selling-very-well.186557/page-3#post-2464820) and even FilmoTec preparing to enter color negative market to compete with Kodak in motion picture film stocks --- might we see such a day when Fuji returns to this market? 🤔

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With regard to rental houses being dead, every professional 16mm shooter I know, and the list spans the globe, owns their own camera system, everything from Bolex to Arri 416's, I myself have my own fully rigged Bolex H16 M5/EBM hybrid, and Bolex H16 EBM for professional use. I learned a long time ago to purchase my own rig and save the rental cost.

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On 9/20/2021 at 7:31 PM, Robert Houllahan said:

We have lots and lots of 16mm in the lab getting souped and I think it is just a case of high demand outstripping supply for now.

Yeah, that's it for sure. Production ramped up at the same time schools/students were placing their fall orders and that's why 16mm film is hard to get. 

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On 9/23/2021 at 1:41 AM, Robert Ditto said:

With regard to rental houses being dead, every professional 16mm shooter I know, and the list spans the globe, owns their own camera system, everything from Bolex to Arri 416's, I myself have my own fully rigged Bolex H16 M5/EBM hybrid, and Bolex H16 EBM for professional use. I learned a long time ago to purchase my own rig and save the rental cost.

Since film camera prices plummeted around 10 years ago it makes sense that serious film shooters have been investing in their own cameras. Even for 35mm and digital, cameras are no longer the mainstay of rental houses, because there are so many owner operators out there now, and digital cameras have a pretty limited lifespan. It’s really more lenses that keep rental houses going these days.

For professional productions needing multiple full camera kits, proper technical support and replacement cameras at the drop of a hat, rental houses make much more sense. From what I can tell, 16mm has become more of an amateur or auteur format, there are far less mainstream features or series shot on 16mm now, it’s mainly quirky little indie films or music vids or art films. It doesn’t help that streaming sites tend not to allow 16mm as a source format either (unless you’re Damian Chazelle). 

The main advantage of rental houses and film cameras (at least bigger ones with service departments), was that the equipment was regularly checked and serviced, allowing for a continuation of that knowledge and a decent level of camera reliability. I fear that nowadays cameras are just being worked until they fail, or owners are trying to service them themselves, which will only hasten their demise. 

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On 9/23/2021 at 7:55 PM, Dom Jaeger said:

From what I can tell, 16mm has become more of an amateur or auteur format, there are far less mainstream features or series shot on 16mm now, it’s mainly quirky little indie films or music vids or art films. It doesn’t help that streaming sites tend not to allow 16mm as a source format either

Here in the States, Dom AMC shoots alot of their shows on Super16 ARRI 416's, "The Walking Dead", "Fear the Walking Dead" "Mad Men" all critically acclaimed shows, all shot on Super16.

As far as streaming platforms go, it isn't so much that 16mm isn't allowed as an acquisition format, the output must be at least 4k to 6K depending on the service.

A featurette I shot on 16 is available on Amazon, and Tubi, but the film scanning was done at 4K.

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6 hours ago, Robert Ditto said:

Here in the States, Dom AMC shoots alot of their shows on Super16 ARRI 416's, "The Walking Dead", "Fear the Walking Dead" "Mad Men" all critically acclaimed shows, all shot on Super16.

I’m pretty sure Mad Men was shot on 35mm, and the last season went digital, back in 2015. Fear the Walking Dead is a digitally shot show, and even The Walking Dead shot it’s final season on digital cameras. 

It’s sad, but I fear a lot of people are so used to super sharp digital imagery now that S16 looks bad to them, so it’s dropped off the radar for mainstream entertainment. I think 35mm has become the new 16mm, and high end movies are now shooting 65mm more often. 

From what I can tell however there are an enormous number of younger people interested in analogue processes taking up 16mm and experimenting with it. I just hope they don’t get turned off by the expense and the many problems you can encounter with old second-hand cameras. Of course in the States there are many more opportunities for people to still shoot film, you have quite a few functioning labs and service centres still operating. The rest of the world is not so lucky.

6 hours ago, Robert Ditto said:

A featurette I shot on 16 is available on Amazon, and Tubi, but the film scanning was done at 4K.

That’s great! What’s it called so I can check it out?

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27 minutes ago, Dom Jaeger said:

I’m pretty sure Mad Men was shot on 35mm, and the last season went digital, back in 2015.

The first four seasons were 35mm, but the rest was sadly shot on digital (Alexa). There's nothing wrong with digital (I have to keep saying that!) but there is a gravitas about film that makes your favourite show even better.

Twin Peaks Season 3 was supposed to be 35mm, but of course they went digital, didn't they. It didn't look that good, I'm sorry to say. I still liked it though.

On high end shows, it's a bit of a disappointment if they're shot digitally. For IMAX, though, I'd be shooting digital for sure. IMAX film cameras are a hindrance. I wish it were otherwise, but there you have it.

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22 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

I think 35mm has become the new 16mm, and high end movies are now shooting 65mm more often. 

Not from what I see, I'd say the polar opposite. 16mm has become the new 35mm. There are so many projects being shot on 16 right now, it's not even funny. There are 10 features in the works right now internationally, all shot on 16mm... some with portions mixed with digital or 35mm, others entire movies on 16mm. We're seeing more and more people chose the format because of cost and look, it does look more like film, 35mm is so clean, it can be indistinguishable from digital once you make it look like desaturated and tinted crap (like most shows/movies) do in the grading process. If you went el'natural vs el'natural with only "balance" in the color, the two would look pretty far from each other. 

In terms of 65mm, there was a big push for it few years ago thanks to the growth of IMAX and the lack of a high resolution capture system. The moment someone develops 12k imager, the same size as an 15 perf frame that LOOKS GOOD, is the end of the 65mm capture. It's just currently, your only "high res" options are the Alexa 65 or Red cameras. Both have their issues when it comes to 1.90:1 aspect ratio of IMAX digital. 

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Yes, I was getting rather a different impression to Dom of how 16mm is currently going. Top of the line Super 16 gear at the moment is going higher in price it seems. Sure, S16 lenses are used by the digital people too but S16 film camera bodies themselves are going up. 416's are scarily high in price if one ever becomes available. 2 perf 35mm cameras also seem to be sought-after but are as rare as hen's teeth. 3 perf is much sought after too. 

It's really the look people want. If you want a super sharp digital image then that's great -- you can get it. If you want the 16mm look it's available too. It's great that film looks like it's doing quite well.

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3 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Not from what I see, I'd say the polar opposite. 16mm has become the new 35mm.

[...]

It's just currently, your only "high res" options are the Alexa 65 or Red cameras. Both have their issues when it comes to 1.90:1 aspect ratio of IMAX digital. 

I think you're right. 16mm is so good these days.

But I would bet that a Red 8K camera, cropped to 4:3, is more than enough for true IMAX. 

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