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Lighting for product shoot


Jon O'Brien

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I'm shooting a short promo video soon for an online store that sells ties and other small handmade items made from colourful cotton material. We thought we'd shoot film rather than digital.

The idea is to have a short reel that plays on the website front page.

I've chosen 250D. It will be a short sequence, shot mainly as close ups, showing someone hand-sewing the items; also the bow ties laid out, with an antique wooden table for the background (a dark-stained natural wood with wood grain). Then close ups of some of the ties being worn (coloured ties on white shirt background). We could also use some of the material as a background, for variety.

I'm wondering what lighting I could use to augment the natural daylight. I will probably be shooting indoors near a large window with bright daylight outside, coming in through the window. I'd like to use indirect daylight as much as possible -- probably not direct sunlight. The sunlight will be bouncing off white plaster, earthy-colour brick walls and pale cream-coloured tiles outside the windows.

Can anyone offer some advice as to how to go about lighting the ties for this. We would like a natural, available light look, while still getting the products to look their absolute best. Would you use lighting that is balanced for daylight, to add some extra light if needed? Or a warmer light perhaps? How many lights might be necessary? I suppose it's difficult to say how to light for this sort of product shooting, without being there ... but I would be grateful for any advice. Thank you.

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250D is a great choice. It was used in Phantom Thread which is the film I think of when I read this thread.

Your main question is what light to use to augment the natural light. 

First things first....KNOW where you are shooting and start scouting how the light comes into the room.......get the light metre readings. With a 250D stock and the shutter at 180 degrees and 25 fps you should have T-stop or f-stop to work in with no need for any more light perhaps???

...and explain augment.....do you mean to amplify the light or to add character?

I have just done a shoot for a charity music album that was totally dependent on the light coming in off the window. I had to wait a whole week for the light I wanted to come back in the room. This was shot with Kodak Portra 800 (cos I love the grain). I metered the beams of light coming through the shutters of the windows and then stopped down to get more shadow detail.

Valerga1_72dpi.jpg

Edited by Stephen Perera
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CRUCIAL is that you use a grey card / colour chart on the scene as you need the products to be true to their colour...if intended. Unless you want to put some warmth in or whatever in which case I would use one of my Arri tungsten lamps which come in at 3200k supposedly.

I use a LUMU attachment on my iPhone which is the cheapest way I can measure the colour of the light in a scene.
https://lu.mu

Also, film is a great choice as it doesn't give awful moire patterns on textiles!!!!! though perhaps that's a thing of the past? don't know.

Edited by Stephen Perera
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Thank you Stephen, that is very helpful!! By augment the light, I mean amplify the light. I did do some meter readings already in the room I'm thinking of, and it was looking like just not enough daylight is coming in through the window as there's a wide veranda outside (ie, wide roof overhang outside that cuts out quite a bit of light). So one thing I could do is get the table closer to the window or even film outside under the veranda -- as long as its not windy on the day. But I'm also curious about possibilities of using light to add character, as you mention. I guess trial and error -- thing is with film so expensive I guess I'm trying to get away without too much error ?

Your Kodak Portra 800 shot of the music objet d'art in the warm shafts of sunlight is beautiful and inspiring.

Thanks for telling me about LUMU. I didn't know that. I will check it out for sure. Will make sure I have the grey card.

Probably should have titled this 'Lighting for textiles'.

What are those very high temp, white LED lights like, on film, for imitating daylight?

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2 minutes ago, Jon O'Brien said:

What are those very high temp, white LED lights like, on film, for imitating daylight?

Firstly thanks for your kind words......

....how about using silver bounce to amplify the intensity of the daylight and maybe to 'throw' shafts around. Silver amplifies more than white as you know.....sometimes its very sharp but that's your call. A micro can also do some cool things.

Idea - Get some cardboard....cut some strips.....wrap aluminium tinfoil around it and place around to throw in shafts of light based on the thickness of the cardboard...it works I assure you.

I always shoot natural light as much as possible as I normally have the latitude to 'wait' for the conditions I want. Case in point waiting a week for the damn sun to shoot its rays through the blinds of the window.....wasn't a 'cookie' haha. Yes I know, some call this cheesy but what looks good just looks good!

The LUMU is great. I can vouch for it.

I use a Sekonic light metre though cos I'm an old school lighting reading snob and like light metres hahaha. I also have a Gossen Mastersix.

The LUMU is accurate. The colour temp. readings with it are fun......you can even measure the light coming off your work monitor by placing it over a white patch and putting it flat against the screen!!! I like my monitor at 6500k as I am a graphic designer by profession.

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OK so the music album Im doing has a tribute to the artists' parents.....here we have the father is represented by the card and the mother appears....the space around the frame is for text.....Ive cut it down a bit to post the image. This was just natural light coming in off the window. The photos placed on the floor. Doesn't get more 'no-budget' than this.

This was Kodak Portra 400 NC - expired stock from 2012 I still have in the freezer. I process the negatives myself at home using Tetanus C-41 chemicals and I scan my shots using a Hasselblad branded Flaxtight 646 scanner. So I do it all myself. Shoot/process/scan and have all the fun!

 

Valerga2_72dpi.jpg

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This one has a great story behind it.....

This is a beautiful 12-string Mandolin (made in 1921) painstakingly restored by Madrid luthier Felipe Conde. Conde personally crafted guitars for Paco de Lucia and Leonard Cohen, amongst others. He is a direct descendent of the instrument's creator Domingo Esteso and so accurate was the restoration that the same varnish stored from 1921 was used again!

Local musician Denis Valerga inherited this instrument from his grandfather Leonardo and it was brought to me to photograph by brother Henry, the other half of the Valerga Brothers for use in the design of the album I am undertaking for the Calpe House charity.

Valerga3_72dpi.jpg

Edited by Stephen Perera
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Beautiful! The magic of old string instruments. They look so great on film when the light is just right, as here. This is sort of what I'm trying to achieve with the handmade ties. Though I guess because they're a new product, they will have to look just a bit glitzy. Not too arty ... but if I can manage to weave a bit of magic into the image making, while advertising the product well, I won't complain.

The Portra 800 shot looks like a really nice cover on a vintage LP -- some great, classic recording. Would just need a title, an RCA Victor or HMV symbol, etc, and the remains of an old 60s price sticker on it to complete it.

Very, very helpful advice, thank you. The silver bounce, and the cardboard strips with tin foil. The creative ideas are starting to flow ....

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I really like the light starting at 1.20 with the natural daylight coming in through the window and the warm lamp shade light on the side. That's an interesting blend. What an educational video this is! Looks like I will have an Arri SR and a Bolex Rex-5 to choose from for the 'textile shoot'.

So, they are pushing it all one stop. Looks like an interesting movie just for the cinematography.

Is the colour of lighting mainly about the colour temperature alone Eg. 3600 K vs 5000 plus K, or is there a quality of light to take into consideration too.

An LED mini can be a good light to have?

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Maybe for filming the products, a warm tungsten light overhead to bring out the warm, deep browns and reds of the antique wood table underneath, and a side light of natural daylight from the window, plus (if needed) a silver reflector for extra daylight,  and again if needed a 5600 K LED panel? It might work. I'd like to see the warm colours of the wood table if possible.

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all your questions now will come to you on the 'set' as answers when you set things up and see what it all looks like.....

I'm not au fait with modern lights like panels etc....dont have access to any and have never used any.......I have Arri tungstens (quite a few of them) up to 1000w that Ive bought second hand over the years.....and an Arri L7c LED which in hindsight i would get rid of as not really 'for me'.

As I said, unlike most people in here that actually shoot films and have been in film sets I have only been in my own film set so to speak......with at most a few friends helping me out........I also have the liberty to make the most of the limitations that ultimately make you creative.....

at the end of the day move the lights around and what the eye sees is always going to be the starting point......then you can metre for getting the reality or otherwise.....by stopping down or up on the iris (T-stops or f-Stops)

Edited by Stephen Perera
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Back to minute 1:20...

Look at the slate.....I dont really know how they do their slates but from what I gather they are shooting with Vision3 50D for starters......they have a side light at 6500k which is like the colour of the light coming in from the exterior through the window.......if it was golden hour the warm light outside compared to placing a side light at 6500k immediately shows you the fact there is side lighting......obviously........hence the 'believablity' of light look.....this is the 'augmenting' that you want to do yourself....it totally looks real and believable that its coming in off the window...they have also spot metered that outside at T16. There is no top lighting.....

I feel qualified to help here 'cos at the end of the day the difference between me shooting this on a Hasselblad on Kodak Portra as a still and the dolly move they are doing is simply there is motion in one...the philosophy of capture is the same.....

and he's shooting at nearly T2 (f2) as that is what they have metered as key light i.e. taken a reading of ambient coming off her face from the side light and whatever light is spilling in.......Oh, and importantly, they have a low contrast filter on the lens....the LC1.....don't know if a Lee filter but here's some help on that:

Low Contrast filters work by spreading light from the highlights to the shadowed and darker areas, leaving the bright areas of the image bright. The dark areas become lighter, enabling you to see more detail in the shadow areas. As there is no F-stop compensation, you will not overexpose any portion of the image. This filter also creates a very slight flare or halation around hot spots and individual light sources. This feature is a useful effect. The more light there is for the filter to work with, the greater the effect. This filter is very popular with people who shoot video but who want to achieve more of a film look to their images. Lee Low Contrast filters are available in grades from 1/4 through 1 1/2, with the 1 1/2 having the heaviest effect."

 

Screenshot 2021-11-03 at 10.17.31.png

Edited by Stephen Perera
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this set up also natural light.....different flavour light.....focal point on the faces in the print......this is in essence a product shot and not too dissimilar in philosophy from what you have to do!!!!

Moral of the story is natural light is THE light for people like me......i get to choose to shoot at a specific time of day to get the light I want....as opposed to everyone else in here - I'm not a cinematographer - that have to 'make the day' and create light most of the time. If this is the case with you then chase natural light as a priority!!!!

(All shots in this thread are taken with Hasselblad 2000FCM on tripod with either 110mm f2 or 80mm f2.8 Hasselblad Zeiss lenses)

Valerga_set1_72dpi.jpg

Edited by Stephen Perera
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That looks great! Very nicely photographed in natural light. Love that harmonica in the foreground -- I used to play one.

We've decided to film with all natural light for the textile products. I will bring along some white poster board, possibly a sheet of styrofoam, and something like a white sheet or piece of white silk like material for diffusion if needed. Hopefully we will get some great shots but if it doesn't work out perfectly enough we will learn from the experience and film another roll later.

I went to some production hire shops and now have a much better idea of the sort of lighting available. There are some incredibly handy looking lights available. I think the best solution is simply to buy some equipment. Perhaps two lights - something along the lines of an Aputure 60X. There is also a 120 which is a bit more expensive. They are highly adaptable and can be used with different types of diffusion. But not needed until later.

 

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one light i use a lot actually is a Multiblitz V6 LED which has the P bayonet upon which I can hang my soft boxes etc from my Multiblitz flash heads....a great german product from back in the day and they have since closed down. That light and Arri tungstens......there is something about tungsten i like I cant explain

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I've used tungsten lights and they are a really nice warm light. The last time I used them we blew the circuit breaker in the room. That was with a digital camera and I was the 'AC'.

So, you would use tungsten balanced film with these Arris in most situations I guess.

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