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Converted Arriflex ST Super 16mm by ARRI - they exist!


Uli Meyer

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you could 3d print a 72mm ID to 80mm OD ring with a split in Nylon 12 for more standard clamp diameters:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1613743-REG/tilta_mb_t12_m80_4x5_65_carbon_fiber_matte.html

I can model it for you and you can send the file to shapeways or any other 3d printing service.

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43 minutes ago, David Sekanina said:

you could 3d print a 72mm ID to 80mm OD ring with a split in Nylon 12 for more standard clamp diameters:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1613743-REG/tilta_mb_t12_m80_4x5_65_carbon_fiber_matte.html

I can model it for you and you can send the file to shapeways or any other 3d printing service.

Hi David,

That sounds great, I'll send you a PM.

 

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I couldn't wait until the weekend, hah! A quick comparison of the Super 16 gate and the Standard model. It looks like there is a longer mirror and the inside of the turret is different. From the outside she looks like any other Arriflex 16 S/B.

gate chamber.jpg

gates.jpg

IMG_1933.JPG

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I knew it had to be a longer mirror!  I have a parts 16S where someone foolishly tried to convert it to Super 16 (seemingly with a chainsaw) and that's the most obvious thing you notice about it - that edge of the film is never blocked by the mirror!  Not sure what they were thinking.  I'll post pics of that at some point (I'm taking lots of pics as I strip it down, just so people can see what all the parts look like in the real world, instead of in a parts manual.)

Duncan

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44 minutes ago, Duncan Brown said:

I'll post pics of that at some point (I'm taking lots of pics as I strip it down, just so people can see what all the parts look like in the real world, instead of in a parts manual.)

Would love to see the photos once you’re done dissecting. 

I took the camera on a walk around London today and will post the results next week once back from the lab.

 

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5 hours ago, Duncan Brown said:

I knew it had to be a longer mirror!  I have a parts 16S where someone foolishly tried to convert it to Super 16 (seemingly with a chainsaw) and that's the most obvious thing you notice about it - that edge of the film is never blocked by the mirror!  Not sure what they were thinking.  I'll post pics of that at some point (I'm taking lots of pics as I strip it down, just so people can see what all the parts look like in the real world, instead of in a parts manual.)

Duncan

There are people who seem to think converting cameras to S16 is simply a matter of filing out the gate. 

Converting cameras like the 16St to Super 16 is particularly challenging because the mirror is to the side and therefore needs to be extended, as mentioned. But to do that and not have the mirror encroach into the gate itself (since it’s at an angle to the film plane) requires the mirror to also be shifted forward. Which then alters the viewfinder groundglass focus point, so that needs to be modified too.

You’ve also got the problem of the viewfinder optics no longer covering the expanded image, which is often something overlooked because it means replacing optics. I’d be curious to know if the Arri conversion succeeded in doing this.

I recently worked on my first encounter with a DS8 Bolex conversion, and realised that the Bolex H8RX prism doesn’t actually have enough thickness for the internal reflecting surface to cover the Super 8 frame height, so every DS8 Bolex will have a cropped viewfinder image, unless the prism (and by extension the whole front) has been replaced with one from a H16RX. 

Even this “official” Arri conversion is flawed by my reckoning when you look at the converted gate. You can see that the expanded area extends into the side where the support rail is, which is in contact with the film as it slides through the gate. So the image area is potentially open to scratching or scuffing. That support rail is machined back in other camera conversions, but for cameras like this where the rail is inset from the edge (K3s are the same) it’s impossible to machine the rail back because there would be no rail left.

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7 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

You’ve also got the problem of the viewfinder optics no longer covering the expanded image, which is often something overlooked because it means replacing optics. I’d be curious to know if the Arri conversion succeeded in doing this.

The viewfinder does have a wider aspect ratio compared to the standard one. I will do a test by marking the corners on a wall to see how well it covers the image. 
 

7 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

Even this “official” Arri conversion is flawed by my reckoning when you look at the converted gate. You can see that the expanded area extends into the side where the support rail is, which is in contact with the film as it slides through the gate. So the image area is potentially open to scratching or scuffing. That support rail is machined back in other camera conversions, but for cameras like this where the rail is inset from the edge (K3s are the same) it’s impossible to machine the rail back because there would be no rail left.

Were the gate rails of the later SR cameras different? I’ve seen converted SR gates that look similar. Thanks Dom, I was hoping you would chime in. I’ll find out next week if there is any scratching. 

Edited by Uli Meyer
Spelling of Dom's name was incorrect, apologies.
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2 hours ago, Uli Meyer said:

Where the gate rails of the later SR cameras different? I’ve seen converted SR gates that look similar. Thanks Don, I was hoping you would chime in. I’ll find out next week if there is any scratching. 

Some early conversions of SR2 gates didn’t machine back the support rail, but most later ones did, and SR3 gates definitely have a reduced width support rail on the expanded side so that the exposed emulsion area never comes in contact with a surface:

0FF0EC48-0EF6-417B-AD5D-B2FADC8D0008.thumb.jpeg.b2c8b5e442f4733b2ae205810edc916e.jpeg

It’s really more of a guarantee that you won’t get scratches. It’s perfectly possible that your S16 St won’t scratch most of the time, especially if you keep the gate and the loaded film clean. But any time the image area is in contact with a surface it can potentially scratch or scuff. I’m a tech so I have to be pedantic about these things. The good news is Arri gates are hard chromed to a very high standard, so if your film has to touch something, that’s as smooth and slippery as it gets!

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I haven't put up the page with the all the disassembly pictures yet, but here are the comparisons for the hacked up gate and a normal gate on another non-hacked camera I'm disassembling.  I had assumed that after butchering the camera they hadn't used it because what would be the point, but look at all that emulsion that gate gouged off!  Oh my.  You can see in the one picture that the stock mirror doesn't fully cover the gate, and then I have a picture with no mirror so you can better see what they did to it.

Duncan

arri_16s_modified_gate_mirror_comparison.thumb.jpg.60b8d1c47c12f57fb8099a37ecda1669.jpg

arri_16s_modified_gate_open_comparison.jpg

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Very Excited to share screengrabs of the first footage shot with the Arriflerx S/B Super 16. Lens was a Zeiss Distagon 12mm 1:1.2 on Kodak Vision 3 500T. A grey, dark day, exteriors were at 5.6 - 8. Wide open the image goes soft, as you can see by the second image, but from F2 onwards it is looking great. This is a quick basic grade on Resolve, tweaked brightness contrast and a bit of temperature from a log scan. Once I have edited the footage, I will share a clip.

So far I am really pleased with how things have turned out. Really worth the wait ?

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As promised, here's the first bit of footage, shot on a walk through London and quick visit to the zoo, on a dark and grey day. Kodak Vision 3, 500T, Zeiss Distagon 12mm 1:1.2 lens. Prior to this the camera hadn't been used in 12 years, according to the seller. I tried to find out a bit more about the history. According to someone who worked at Arri at the time, the Super 16 cameras were made for a client in Switzerland and a few rental houses in Germany. They weren't popular and so they stopped making them. It took another 25 years for Super 16 to take off in earnest.

 

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57 minutes ago, Uli Meyer said:

As promised, here's the first bit of footage, shot on a walk through London and quick visit to the zoo, on a dark and grey day. Kodak Vision 3, 500T, Zeiss Distagon 12mm 1:1.2 lens. Prior to this the camera hadn't been used in 12 years, according to the seller. I tried to find out a bit more about the history. According to someone who worked at Arri at the time, the Super 16 cameras were made for a client in Switzerland and a few rental houses in Germany. They weren't popular and so they stopped making them. It took another 25 years for Super 16 to take off in earnest.

 

Rich color and beautiful grain. God, I love 16mm.

Thanks for sharing.

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17 hours ago, Uli Meyer said:

According to someone who worked at Arri at the time, the Super 16 cameras were made for a client in Switzerland and a few rental houses in Germany. They weren't popular and so they stopped making them. It took another 25 years for Super 16 to take off in earnest.

Wow, just too far ahead of their time!

Nice footage.  Impressive that the camera could wake up and run that well after more than a decade of sleep.

Duncan

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On 12/24/2021 at 7:44 PM, David Sekanina said:

This is beautiful Uli - the song fits really nicely.

Would you be willing to share how you graded the footage? It looks wonderful.

I found Lewis Potts' video quite helpful, but always wonder how other people grade their 16mm footage.

I must admit I don't really have a process and just go by what looks good to my eye. In DaVinci Resolve I use the 'grab frame' and 'apply grade from that frame' function quite a bit. Other than that I play with contrast, lift, gain and gamma. And Hue vs Sat. I should probably learn how to use nodes to split things into layers but haven't felt the need to do that.

Edited by Uli Meyer
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On 12/25/2021 at 1:02 PM, Duncan Brown said:

Wow, just too far ahead of their time!

Nice footage.  Impressive that the camera could wake up and run that well after more than a decade of sleep.

Duncan

Yes nice footage Uli. I always get a kick out of seeing footage from a film camera that hasn't been used for long time. I've got a tiny GIC that I often carry with me. Simon modified the speed to about 24.  I can still remember that first thrill.  Probably 50 years since the last person used it. Magical...

https://filmisfine.com/blog/16mm-exploits-with-the-g-i-c-camera/

Arriflex a great find ? and worth the Brexit hassel hopefully.

 

Edited by Doug Palmer
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16 minutes ago, Doug Palmer said:

Yes nice footage Uli. I always get a kick out of seeing footage from a film camera that hasn't been used for long time. I've got a tiny GIC that I often carry with me. Simon modified the speed to about 24.  I can still remember that first thrill.  Probably 50 years since the last person used it. Magical...

https://filmisfine.com/blog/16mm-exploits-with-the-g-i-c-camera/

Arriflex a great find ? and worth the Brexit hassel hopefully.

 

Hi Doug, thank you for the link! I've enjoyed reading some of your posts and it would be great to see some of the footage you shot. Same for the Ultra 16 conversion. Is that online somewhere?

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On 12/27/2021 at 10:27 AM, Uli Meyer said:

Hi Doug, thank you for the link! I've enjoyed reading some of your posts and it would be great to see some of the footage you shot. Same for the Ultra 16 conversion. Is that online somewhere?

Thanks Uli. Nothing scanned right now, I really must do that !   Your Zeiss 12mm lens looks incredibly good, sharp to the corners and a very natural kind of appearance for S16. Guess it's fairly compact as well.

 

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On 12/19/2021 at 12:28 AM, Dom Jaeger said:

You’ve also got the problem of the viewfinder optics no longer covering the expanded image, which is often something overlooked because it means replacing optics. I’d be curious to know if the Arri conversion succeeded in doing this.

I stuck tape on a white wall looking through the viewfinder and filmed a few frames. It covers the entire image. Just got some more footage back which I will share soon.

Arriflex ST Super 16.jpg

Edited by Uli Meyer
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