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Anyone try the Lasergraphics Archivist scanner?


Daniel D. Teoli Jr.

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I was privileged to scan some films using the archivist both 16mm and 8mm.  The quality is phenomenal on both formats. It's rock solid no shaky scans.  It handles like a champ on a sprocket issue film.   

I see on some of the posts on the archivist that are not very good. All I can say is they really don't know what there talking about.  I'm getting my own archivist in 12 months or so.  

2 thumbs up on the quality of the Lasergraphics archivist scanner.  

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On 1/1/2022 at 7:30 PM, Robert Houllahan said:

That machine does not have machine vision GPU perf registration which alone puts it in the same category of scanner as the BMD Cintel.

The LG Archivist (Like the Scan Station Personal I have) runs the same software as the full Scan Station and most of the features which Scan Station has are also on the Archivist.

If you want or need professional tools for running a business then these machines costs are pretty reasonable, remember that the Spirit 4K I have cost $2M in 2009 so the $50K or even the $190K for the Scan Station is a comparative bargain. Also the service contract cost is reasonable if it is a primary machine and having it down will cost the business allot of revenue.

What does a service contract cost for a Lasergraphics archivist scanner?

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On 2/28/2022 at 5:13 PM, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

 

Well, what are you paying Lasergraphics to talk to you Perry?

Scanning 10,000 feet a day? You should, be retired Perry...skiing the slopes in St. Moritz in winter and in sailing in Bermuda in summers!

 

On 3/9/2022 at 9:11 PM, Dan Baxter said:

I forgot, there's also the Ventura Imagers scanners, you can buy them brand new they cost about $8K dual format 8/16. They have audio heads which Moviestuff doesn't have (they will add to the cost of course), but a low-res 1.3MP camera, and I'm not sure what light is in it.

I had both the new ventura images scanners. I personally had a lot of issues with them. The customer service is okay. But 99% of the time when there were problems you had to mail the scanner back. I live in Texas there located in Canada.  It takes 4 to 6 weeks or longer to get your scanner back and the postage both ways is over $350. For the price for a ventura images vs a Mark ll and i have a Mark ll the Mark ll with new 4k upgrade kit is by far better than anything that ventura images can do.  

 

But I'm going to purchase a Lasergraphics archivist scanner in about 16 months. My website is

 

www.speakeasyarchives.com 

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10 minutes ago, wally stall said:

What does a service contract cost for a Lasergraphics archivist scanner?

I think it depends on the level of service but in general a full service contract for a machine is about 10% of the purchase price annually.

I am happy with the duo of LaserGraphics machines we have at Cinelab now that the "personal" has 2-flash HDR. The Archivist's newer Sony sensor 5.4K camera is very low noise and makes excellent scans.

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I am striving to aquire a Lasergraphics archivist scanner. I have gotten a quote with all the features I need is at $70,000. I at this time have a MARK II and ordered the 4k upgrade kit. I love the MARK II but the work flow is slow. The Lasergraphics archivist scanner will speed up the work flow and the overall resolution and definition will surpass the MARK II. Not too mention the rock solid scans.

I'm not worried about a wet gate system. The Filmfabriek HDR + is touted as the best quality scanner on the market. But that may or may not be true. I know the industry all points to the Lasergraphics as a starting bench mark.  The Lasergraphics line of scanners are a step above the filmfabriek scanner. But I have seen some fabulous scans from the filmfabriek scanner. But for me in 18 to 24 months I'm purchasing the Lasergraphics archivist scanner. 

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I hate to bust your HDR Bubble. But HDR is an outdated offer. 2 people on this thread told me and both I respect highly. Alot of the negative feedback of the archivist. I bet NONE have ever had or seen scans or even in person has seen anything too do with the archivist.  I have touched and seen scans from the archivist. And the scans are exquisite and beautiful. 

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11 hours ago, wally stall said:

I hate to bust your HDR Bubble. But HDR is an outdated offer. 2 people on this thread told me and both I respect highly. Alot of the negative feedback of the archivist. I bet NONE have ever had or seen scans or even in person has seen anything too do with the archivist.  I have touched and seen scans from the archivist. And the scans are exquisite and beautiful. 

This is a patently ridiculous statement, on several levels:

1) HDR makes a very big difference on multiple levels:

  • 2-flash HDR effectively overcomes the lower color sampling of the native bayer sensor on the scanner.
  • 2-flash HDR on the full ScanStation results in an internal 14-15bit image (this is inside the scanner, within its image processing pipeline. This information is direct from lasergraphics), vs the native 12 bit image on the sensor. This is important even if you're outputting to a 10 bit file. (This bit depth is less on the 5k version, which uses a 10 bit sensor)
  • 2-flash HDR extends the dynamic range of the scanner measurably. Try scanning Kodachrome that's underexposed by half a stop, with both single flash and double flash. You will see a significant difference in the amount of visible shadow detail.
  • 2-flash HDR on scanners using the older CMOSIS 5k 10bit sensor effectively eliminates most of the inherent noise of that sensor. This is what Rob is talking about, as he had his ScanStation Personal with that 5k sensor upgraded to include HDR functionality, and that improved the quality immensely. We pushed Lasergraphics to add HDR when we got the 5k upgrade and discovered the noise issues and that eliminated the noise in most cases.
  • More flashes = better signal to noise ratio 
  • Even on non-bayer scanners like the Director, Arriscan, Xena, and DFT Polar, multi-flash HDR is a useful tool for extracting picture from very dense film. Digital sensors don't work like our eyes and have inherently limited dynamic range. So HDR is how you get around that. 

2) There is very little negative feedback on the Archivist. I'm not sure where you're seeing that. People love them. It has many of the positive attributes of the full ScanStation, but with limitations. 

3) You say the FilmFabriek is "is touted as the best quality scanner on the market." -- Again, not sure where you're seeing this. I've never heard anyone say that about that machine. This thread and several others here have pointed out the many issues with that machine. That it runs the film through alcohol before scanning is kind of meaningless. That's not a wet gate.

The archivist is a fine machine, and is arguably better than the original ScanStation Personal. But it is not the same as a full ScanStation 6.5k, which offers much better optical sound reproduction, HDR scanning, support for more gauges, higher resolution, etc. 

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17 hours ago, wally stall said:

I hate to bust your HDR Bubble. But HDR is an outdated offer. 2 people on this thread told me and both I respect highly. Alot of the negative feedback of the archivist. I bet NONE have ever had or seen scans or even in person has seen anything too do with the archivist.  I have touched and seen scans from the archivist. And the scans are exquisite and beautiful. 

Have not had time to keep up with the thread, but this popped up.

Outdated? What replaces HDR? HDR generally looks better than non-HDR. Maybe not 100% of the time, but maybe 98% - 99% in my experience with still photography. 

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  • 6 months later...

After starting out 6 years ago with a Moviestuff Mark I and then buying a Filmfabriek HDS+ 3 years ago, I'm now buying an Archivist.  I plunked down the deposit last week with Galileo Digital.

As someone who has seen the latest, greatest, up-to-date-ist price sheet, I can verify that Lasergraphics is definitely offering HDR scanning on the Archivist as a software option.  And I'm getting it.

I have learned the hard way that my previous scanner purchases required a lot of post-production work to make the scans acceptable.  I had to buy Diamant to stabilize them, because the Mark I did not do that.  I had to use AEO Light (which is a real godsend to those who have no other way to extract audio) to synchronize a usable soundtrack.  And it still takes a lot of time to grade them in Resolve and dustbust them in Diamant to get films "ready for market".  (In my case, that means uploading select clips to Getty Images for licensing.)

The one thing I told Brett Maynard of Galileo Digital is that Lasergraphics really needs a social media presence so that they can directly address a lot of the issues that folks debate back and forth on this forum.  I think they really need to do this to dispel a lot of the rumors and conjecture that I read about here and in other forums.

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10 hours ago, Todd Ruel said:

I have learned the hard way that my previous scanner purchases required a lot of post-production work to make the scans acceptable.

We engineered an entirely different gate system for our HDS+ with a stabilizing brace. The Super 8 and 16mm images off the scanner are night and day better, no dirt, no scratches, WAY more stable. We had to, the scanner out of the box does not work at all. We also have Phoenix for the hard stuff where we need more restoration work, but with negative, we're very good right now. If we had consistent negative work, I would get a scan station. Considering the bulk of our work these days is restoration, the HDS+ works fine in conjunction with Phoenix. 

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11 hours ago, Todd Ruel said:

After starting out 6 years ago with a Moviestuff Mark I and then buying a Filmfabriek HDS+ 3 years ago, I'm now buying an Archivist.  I plunked down the deposit last week with Galileo Digital.

Congrats! I hope it works out well for you once you get it.

11 hours ago, Todd Ruel said:

As someone who has seen the latest, greatest, up-to-date-ist price sheet, I can verify that Lasergraphics is definitely offering HDR scanning on the Archivist as a software option.  And I'm getting it.

Of course they are, they let the cat out of the bag already and existing ones have it. Just be aware the software defaults to OFF anyway!

12 hours ago, Todd Ruel said:

I have learned the hard way that my previous scanner purchases required a lot of post-production work to make the scans acceptable.  I had to buy Diamant to stabilize them, because the Mark I did not do that.  I had to use AEO Light (which is a real godsend to those who have no other way to extract audio) to synchronize a usable soundtrack.

LaserGraphic's software audio extraction is really good. And if I'm not mistaken they recently made some improvements to it as well, so if you have the latest host software from LG you have the best available. You can still use AEO light though if you need to. Another huge advantage for the Archivist is that you can purchase the magnetic sound heads. They were not available with the ScanStation Personals but they are with the Archivist.

12 hours ago, Todd Ruel said:

The one thing I told Brett Maynard of Galileo Digital is that Lasergraphics really needs a social media presence so that they can directly address a lot of the issues that folks debate back and forth on this forum.  I think they really need to do this to dispel a lot of the rumors and conjecture that I read about here and in other forums.

Their issue in my opinion is that they haven't made it easy for small companies doing niche things to get the information that's right for them and then make a plan to purchase the scanners. EG home movie scanning companies. Most of them are too afraid to invest in the cost of a ScanStation or an Archivist or the FilmFabriek HDS+. As for the information, so far as I know Stefan himself is in charge of what's claimed on the official LaserGraphics website and that website could be a lot clearer about the capabilities and limitations of the scanners.

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On 8/6/2023 at 11:20 AM, Todd Ruel said:

After starting out 6 years ago with a Moviestuff Mark I and then buying a Filmfabriek HDS+ 3 years ago, I'm now buying an Archivist.  I plunked down the deposit last week with Galileo Digital.

As someone who has seen the latest, greatest, up-to-date-ist price sheet, I can verify that Lasergraphics is definitely offering HDR scanning on the Archivist as a software option.  And I'm getting it.

I have learned the hard way that my previous scanner purchases required a lot of post-production work to make the scans acceptable.  I had to buy Diamant to stabilize them, because the Mark I did not do that.  I had to use AEO Light (which is a real godsend to those who have no other way to extract audio) to synchronize a usable soundtrack.  And it still takes a lot of time to grade them in Resolve and dustbust them in Diamant to get films "ready for market".  (In my case, that means uploading select clips to Getty Images for licensing.)

The one thing I told Brett Maynard of Galileo Digital is that Lasergraphics really needs a social media presence so that they can directly address a lot of the issues that folks debate back and forth on this forum.  I think they really need to do this to dispel a lot of the rumors and conjecture that I read about here and in other forums.

Great for you, bub!

I still have the Retroscan. Had an opportunity a year ago or so to get an Archivist or HDS+, but it didn't work out and lost my sponsor.

I wrote to the Film Foundation, (Scorsese, Lucas, Coppola, et all) to see if they would finance or loan me an Archivist, but never heard a peep.  Before that wrote to many film archives and art philanthropists to see if they would sponsor me...nothing. Well, I got a few lotto tickets for the next $1.55 BB Mega. (I only need $3/4 million or so.)

Do a blog on running the Lasergraphics. Don't wait for them. Everyone is on a different wavelength. 

Good luck and hope it works out for you!

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BuskerSubwayNyc2016DanielD.TeoliJr..jpg

Selection from NYC 180

by D.D.Teoli Jr.

Edited by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.
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On 8/6/2023 at 10:10 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

We engineered an entirely different gate system for our HDS+ with a stabilizing brace. The Super 8 and 16mm images off the scanner are night and day better, no dirt, no scratches, WAY more stable. We had to, the scanner out of the box does not work at all. We also have Phoenix for the hard stuff where we need more restoration work, but with negative, we're very good right now. If we had consistent negative work, I would get a scan station. Considering the bulk of our work these days is restoration, the HDS+ works fine in conjunction with Phoenix. 

Terrible. When I corresponded with the company, they said it ships direct from Europe. They didn't even have a sample machine in the USA to look at. I'm not qualified to do any of that work. I need a turnkey scanner that works out of the box.

I was going to start a new thread to see if there were any new developments with scanning. Closed down the film Archive more or less last year. If I ever get a scanner, then will think about adding more films once I get through the 2.5 million feet sitting around and if I'm still breathing. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

Terrible. When I corresponded with the company, they said it ships direct from Europe. They didn't even have a sample machine in the USA to look at. I'm not qualified to do any of that work. I need a turnkey scanner that works out of the box.

They have a whole new scanner out hopefully at NAB next year. 

It'll be pretty kickass actually. Been talking with them for a while about it and they've learned a lot. 

So when it's available, we'll see if we can get one to help market a bit. 

Honestly, I will never be able to afford a Scan Station, and honestly with all the mods we've done to our FF, it's really not bad. 

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On 8/9/2023 at 6:22 AM, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

Do a blog on running the Lasergraphics. Don't wait for them. Everyone is on a different wavelength. 

It won't matter. Most consumers aren't discerning enough to recognise when a company is cutting corners delivering a low quality service even if they have a social media presence, e.g. GotMemories:

And note that they monitor their comments and delete anything that mentions better quality scanners.

On 8/7/2023 at 1:20 AM, Todd Ruel said:

The one thing I told Brett Maynard of Galileo Digital is that Lasergraphics really needs a social media presence so that they can directly address a lot of the issues that folks debate back and forth on this forum.  I think they really need to do this to dispel a lot of the rumors and conjecture that I read about here and in other forums.

Well on the HDR issue I never once felt I was putting forward conjecture, I was always confident that my opinion was correct. It has now been vindicated. It was LG and GD themselves putting out incorrect information on it, so make of that what you will. I mean here's what Perry said:

On 1/6/2022 at 3:27 AM, Perry Paolantonio said:

Speaking of misinformation...

The Archivist does not offer HDR scanning. A couple of the early machines had it before the configuration was changed. 

...

... If anyone is spreading misinformation, it's you. Instead of relying on a price sheet from last year that you know includes items that they no longer offer for the Archivst, you could have very easily determined that this is the case by either:

1) Looking at the web site, the specs, and the pictures of the machines they provide

2) Contacting Galileo digital to confirm

I just did both of those things. 

He accused me of spreading misinformation while he believed that Galileo Digital, the US sales agent, was a source of gospel truth!!! What a crock of shit, I didn't spread any misinformation. I wonder if Perry would concede I was right?

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8 hours ago, Dan Baxter said:

It won't matter. Most consumers aren't discerning enough to recognise when a company is cutting corners delivering a low quality service even if they have a social media presence, e.g. GotMemories:

That's crazy, but it makes sense. Just run it through a machine that is real time sending it to DVD. It's the lowest cost, but in no way is it "restoring" the film at all. 

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9 hours ago, Dan Baxter said:

He accused me of spreading misinformation while he believed that Galileo Digital, the US sales agent, was a source of gospel truth!!! What a crock of shit, I didn't spread any misinformation. I wonder if Perry would concede I was right?

You're a real piece of work, man. At the time, confirmed with both Lasergraphics and Galileo digital, the archivist did not offer HDR as an option. The very first ones did, as I said. Then they didn't. Now it is apparently an option again. What is there to concede? I stand by what I said in your quote of my post. 

BTW, Galileo Digital is the sole worldwide reseller, not just the US. Resellers in other parts of the world work through Galileo. 

Putting you back on Ignore now. I don't know why the cinematography.com decided it needed to email about this post in the first place. 

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On 8/6/2023 at 10:10 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

We engineered an entirely different gate system for our HDS+ with a stabilizing brace.

Wish I had your engineering prowess, Tyler.  I'm not much of a DIY guy.  Ever consider selling your solution as a kit?

Also:  I'm intrigued by this forthcoming Filmfabriek scanner that you mentioned.  Although I'm now committed to Lasergraphics, I'd love to see what they come out with.

 

On 8/8/2023 at 4:29 PM, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

When I corresponded with the company, they said it ships direct from Europe. They didn't even have a sample machine in the USA to look at.

Dan T., their US rep is Dave Saville.  He runs a company called Big Pic Media that sells Filmfabriek as well as other manufacturers.  He's the one to talk to here in the States.

On a similar note, when I was shopping for software film restoration packages, I asked Diamant if they had any US customers.  They said their nearest one was at Indiana University, which is about 2 or 3 hours away from me.  So I went and visited them.  Point is, there are now US customers for the Filmfabriek, and I'm one of them.  There is another out in California marketing themselves as film restorers in the Hollywood community.  If you're still interested, you might consider visiting them.  Or maybe Dave Saville has a demo unit in Raleigh, NC.

On 8/6/2023 at 11:47 PM, Dan Baxter said:

Their issue in my opinion is that they haven't made it easy for small companies doing niche things to get the information that's right for them and then make a plan to purchase the scanners.

I don't think home movie scanning companies are their niche.  For instance, if you ever spend time on the Moviestuff Facebook forum, you'd see a lot of folks fretting about the cost of a Mark I or Mark II.  Or they're still using some of Roger Evans' even older machines.  Those folks are not even going to spring for a Filmfabriek HDS+ or a Baby Kinetta (both of which are mid-range compared to the wider scanner market).  And that means they're definitely not going to write checks for Lasergraphics' products.

The Archivist currently costs US $49,500 with no bells or whistles.  You get one gate of your choice and a basic PC with one PCIe slot.  It runs their latest software.  Everything else is optional.

If LG makes an even more affordable scanner, then maybe it would be worth their time to increase their outreach to smaller companies.  But I don't see that happening in the short term.  But hey, I could be wrong.

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Oh of course, according to Perry it's pure coincidence that I was right and my opinion at the time was invalid all because the sales agent told him something else. Honestly. ? You can't even concede when you were dead wrong and you make up a story about why you were wrong! "The Archivist had HDR option at the start, and then later they didn't, and then they changed their minds so now it does". That's a completely invented story that you've made up with no actual evidence, and it doesn't even fit all the facts either. The facts are this: you were given the wrong information and maybe you should blame the source of that wrong information rather than publicly blaming me for putting out misinformation!!!

You could be right Perry, maybe the story you've just told is what really happened... but I'm entitled to my scepticism over it, it's called critical thinking. You could be reasonable and concede at least that much. Also:

On 1/6/2022 at 3:27 AM, Perry Paolantonio said:

1) Looking at the web site, the specs, and the pictures of the machines they provide

Both websites continue to claim HDR is not available on the Archivist. Screenshots:

lW3lxf7.png

Screenshot: Galileo Digital today 12 August 2023. Archive Link.

y6I5VCm.png

Screenshot: Lasergraphics today 12 August 2023. Archive Link.

So how exactly does this fact fit in to your story?

I'll put forward an opinion... LaserGraphics would put themselves into a far better position to wipe out Moviestuff and Ventura Images if they just 1. put out straight clear and accurate information, and 2.made it easier for small companies and startups to get a quote. On that second point they should have a clear upfront deposit amount stated that will get you started, and they should have someone that assists and guides you through getting a loan. Without this what you have is Moviestuff owning the narrative amongst their customers on what they should buy. The Archivist was designed to compete against the Filmfabriek HDS+, yet nothing on the website clearly explains the benefits over the HDS+, Retroscan, or Ventura Images scanners (and the legacy scanners like Tobins, MWAs etc). Or the Baby Kinetta. Their main potential customers with the Archivist is 1. Professional Companies that can see a space for adding an Archivist to their line-up of equipment, and 2. Small Companies using existing small format scanners (including archives, obviously hence the name of the product). The Archivist is not going to replace a ScanStation but it can certainly compliment one.

3 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

That's crazy, but it makes sense. Just run it through a machine that is real time sending it to DVD. It's the lowest cost, but in no way is it "restoring" the film at all. 

The only reason they get away with it is because in their market they sit in the middle: there's people doing even worse quality work and charging more, and there's people doing far better work using better quality systems charging the same or even less (not just the scanning machine, but how it's used and the post-scan color correction, cleanup, stabilisation, etc). There's no way they don't know this, they go out of their way to delete comments that mention better scanning systems like LaserGraphics or Filmfabreik. Here's a guy putting out a similar message to his customers about how great the Retroscan is:

18 minutes ago, Todd Ruel said:

I don't think home movie scanning companies are their niche.  For instance, if you ever spend time on the Moviestuff Facebook forum, you'd see a lot of folks fretting about the cost of a Mark I or Mark II.  Or they're still using some of Roger Evans' even older machines.  Those folks are not even going to spring for a Filmfabriek HDS+ or a Baby Kinetta (both of which are mid-range compared to the wider scanner market).  And that means they're definitely not going to write checks for Lasergraphics' products.

Oh yes I've read their Facebook group before and their forums. They believe everything Roger tells them without critical thought, and they have an echo-chamber reinforcing their beliefs.

If you want to share your ideas with LaserGraphics about how to own that market you should go right ahead. Ultimately though, the way that people in that market will buy LGs is once they get word-of-mouth or they talk to existing people that are doing home movie scanning (or whatever other market traditionally considered non-professional) on full ScanStations, and especially from people that replaced Moviestuff scanners.

1 hour ago, Todd Ruel said:

The Archivist currently costs US $49,500 with no bells or whistles.  You get one gate of your choice and a basic PC with one PCIe slot.  It runs their latest software.  Everything else is optional.

If LG makes an even more affordable scanner, then maybe it would be worth their time to increase their outreach to smaller companies.  But I don't see that happening in the short term.  But hey, I could be wrong.

People have been replacing Moviestuff and other junky low-end scanners with LG scanners for many years, but that isn't to say that it's easy for them. It's a scary purchase, and getting accurate information isn't straightforward. Plus they come with an annual support contract that adds to the cost that you don't have to pay when going with a cheaper competitor including Filmfabriek. What would win them over and seal the deal is not necessarily the argument on quality but the productivity that it brings to the workflow. Remember, a 50ft 8mm reel will go straight on a Retroscan and not need any additional leader, to scan it on a ScanStation you will definitely need to add leader. So there's that obvious drawback there, minor compared to the benefits, but those that are worried about a purchase will think about all those drawbacks and whether it's worth it or not overall.

Also, $50K for it is a bargain even if it's just for 16mm work. It'll beat the quality of all existing ScanStation Personals and full 5K ScanStations.

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4 hours ago, Todd Ruel said:

Wish I had your engineering prowess, Tyler.  I'm not much of a DIY guy.  Ever consider selling your solution as a kit?

Engineering is the easy part. Making the part is the hard part. 

We probably will manufacture some kits for FF users. But unfortunately, in order to make our kit work, we had FF give us a few developer pieces which most users won't have. So if we were to make kits, we'd have to make those as well, which would greatly increase the cost sadly. 

4 hours ago, Todd Ruel said:

Also:  I'm intrigued by this forthcoming Filmfabriek scanner that you mentioned.  Although I'm now committed to Lasergraphics, I'd love to see what they come out with.

Lasergraphics will still make a superior scanner no matter what. It's down to cost then and we'll see if FF can keep the cost low AND deliver a good product. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/12/2023 at 3:43 AM, Tyler Purcell said:

Engineering is the easy part. Making the part is the hard part. 

We probably will manufacture some kits for FF users. But unfortunately, in order to make our kit work, we had FF give us a few developer pieces which most users won't have. So if we were to make kits, we'd have to make those as well, which would greatly increase the cost sadly. 

Lasergraphics will still make a superior scanner no matter what. It's down to cost then and we'll see if FF can keep the cost low AND deliver a good product. 

 

Are you thinking about moving to an Archivist Tyler?

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On 8/12/2023 at 12:34 AM, Dan Baxter said:

Oh of course, according to Perry it's pure coincidence that I was right and my opinion at the time was invalid all because the sales agent told him something else. Honestly. ? You can't even concede when you were dead wrong and you make up a story about why you were wrong! "The Archivist had HDR option at the start, and then later they didn't, and then they changed their minds so now it does". That's a completely invented story that you've made up with no actual evidence, and it doesn't even fit all the facts either. The facts are this: you were given the wrong information and maybe you should blame the source of that wrong information rather than publicly blaming me for putting out misinformation!!!

You could be right Perry, maybe the story you've just told is what really happened... but I'm entitled to my scepticism over it, it's called critical thinking. You could be reasonable and concede at least that much. Also:

Both websites continue to claim HDR is not available on the Archivist. Screenshots:

lW3lxf7.png

Screenshot: Galileo Digital today 12 August 2023. Archive Link.

y6I5VCm.png

Screenshot: Lasergraphics today 12 August 2023. Archive Link.

So how exactly does this fact fit in to your story?

I'll put forward an opinion... LaserGraphics would put themselves into a far better position to wipe out Moviestuff and Ventura Images if they just 1. put out straight clear and accurate information, and 2.made it easier for small companies and startups to get a quote. On that second point they should have a clear upfront deposit amount stated that will get you started, and they should have someone that assists and guides you through getting a loan. Without this what you have is Moviestuff owning the narrative amongst their customers on what they should buy. The Archivist was designed to compete against the Filmfabriek HDS+, yet nothing on the website clearly explains the benefits over the HDS+, Retroscan, or Ventura Images scanners (and the legacy scanners like Tobins, MWAs etc). Or the Baby Kinetta. Their main potential customers with the Archivist is 1. Professional Companies that can see a space for adding an Archivist to their line-up of equipment, and 2. Small Companies using existing small format scanners (including archives, obviously hence the name of the product). The Archivist is not going to replace a ScanStation but it can certainly compliment one.

The only reason they get away with it is because in their market they sit in the middle: there's people doing even worse quality work and charging more, and there's people doing far better work using better quality systems charging the same or even less (not just the scanning machine, but how it's used and the post-scan color correction, cleanup, stabilisation, etc). There's no way they don't know this, they go out of their way to delete comments that mention better scanning systems like LaserGraphics or Filmfabreik. Here's a guy putting out a similar message to his customers about how great the Retroscan is:

Oh yes I've read their Facebook group before and their forums. They believe everything Roger tells them without critical thought, and they have an echo-chamber reinforcing their beliefs.

If you want to share your ideas with LaserGraphics about how to own that market you should go right ahead. Ultimately though, the way that people in that market will buy LGs is once they get word-of-mouth or they talk to existing people that are doing home movie scanning (or whatever other market traditionally considered non-professional) on full ScanStations, and especially from people that replaced Moviestuff scanners.

People have been replacing Moviestuff and other junky low-end scanners with LG scanners for many years, but that isn't to say that it's easy for them. It's a scary purchase, and getting accurate information isn't straightforward. Plus they come with an annual support contract that adds to the cost that you don't have to pay when going with a cheaper competitor including Filmfabriek. What would win them over and seal the deal is not necessarily the argument on quality but the productivity that it brings to the workflow. Remember, a 50ft 8mm reel will go straight on a Retroscan and not need any additional leader, to scan it on a ScanStation you will definitely need to add leader. So there's that obvious drawback there, minor compared to the benefits, but those that are worried about a purchase will think about all those drawbacks and whether it's worth it or not overall.

Also, $50K for it is a bargain even if it's just for 16mm work. It'll beat the quality of all existing ScanStation Personals and full 5K ScanStations.

 

Nice report Dan!

Does Lasergraphics force the annual support contract on the buyers? 

Companies are all run differently. You would swear some of them don't want to be biz. I've talked about problems I had over the years with Lasergraphics trying to find out info. And it is not just them. Even local companies can stink nowadays.

A neighbor lady was looking for some roll down security doors. She went to a local home and garden show and made some contacts for quotes with door companies. One company out of three got back to her and they never followed up.  She stopped waiting for the show contacts and decided to visit a couple of local garage door companies. Waiting for quotes, she never got any. No one ever followed up. Just terrible the service with some of these companies. 

Retroscan?

It is a nice scanner for $6K. I mean if that is all you got, it will give you 'something.' And something is better than nothing, generally speaking. When I bought mine, I sold off an old Harley Sportster, borrowed a couple of thousand from a friend and put the rest on my credit card. If it had a better sensor, it would be much better if all you needed was silent scans. Although you still have some jumpiness.

With me it is never an option of working harder, scanning more films and making more $ to buy a better scanner. My Archive is open content, 'The 'Peoples' Archive'...and there is not much $$ in open content work...like none. But working open content gives me the freedom to do almost exactly what I like. I say almost, as sometimes to do a project justice I need to round it out with material that would not be my first choice of working on. But that is usually minimal. Another benefit is I don't have to worry about being cancelled because of prejudice. As long as it is legal...I do as I like. And even then, I push the envelope sometimes.

Baby Kinetta?

Looked like a great option. But can't get one. The builder is getting on in years and he can't seem to produce. 

Well, as long as I'm breathing, and the films haven't turned into mush...there is hope!

<><><><>

https://archive.org/download/gayety-theatre-bouncy-bobbye-mack-burlesk-1965-66-d.-d.-teoli-jr.-a.-c./Gayety Theatre Bouncy Bobbye Mack Burlesk 1965-66 D.D.Teoli Jr. A.C..jpg

Selection from Burlesque Theater Archive

DDTJRAC

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5 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

Are you thinking about moving to an Archivist Tyler?

Don't have room. We would have to expand into a bigger facility and that adds cost we can't really afford right now. Besides, I'd rather have a scan station. It doesn't make sense to buy another narrow gauge only scanner when ours works now that we've done the mods. 

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11 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

Nice report Dan!

Does Lasergraphics force the annual support contract on the buyers?

No, but it's like buying a car. If you have a loan or a lease than paying the "extended warranty"/"service contract" is as mandatory as paying for insurance on a car. If you can afford to buy it outright you can refuse to pay the extended warranty, but that would not necessarily be recommended either as they will likely force you to put it back into service at huge cost if you ever need a major replacement/repair. Also the software updates will stop for anyone not paying it, so you have older ScanStations out there that may not even have the ability to scan to DPX or to Prores XQ because they have really old software.

11 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

Retroscan?

It is a nice scanner for $6K. I mean if that is all you got, it will give you 'something.' And something is better than nothing, generally speaking. When I bought mine, I sold off an old Harley Sportster, borrowed a couple of thousand from a friend and put the rest on my credit card. If it had a better sensor, it would be much better if all you needed was silent scans. Although you still have some jumpiness.

They don't cost $6,000 anymore, you have old the MkI Universal. The new ones are sold as being 4K despite having a 2.5K Bayer-pattern camera, they have a relatively low CRI 90 light which is better than the light they had originally, but still 90 CRI - give me a break. There's issues with the quality of some of the parts, they also lack gates, they lack speed control, they lack the proper speed on 35mm because it photographs on each perf and then decimates 3 out of every 4 photos which is why 35mm is 4fps.

It's more likely that you need a much better quality light rather than a new sensor in your MkI to improve the quality, although fitting in a light into the form-factor of the MkI looks difficult.

11 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

With me it is never an option of working harder, scanning more films and making more $ to buy a better scanner. My Archive is open content, 'The 'Peoples' Archive'...and there is not much $$ in open content work...like none. But working open content gives me the freedom to do almost exactly what I like. I say almost, as sometimes to do a project justice I need to round it out with material that would not be my first choice of working on. But that is usually minimal. Another benefit is I don't have to worry about being cancelled because of prejudice. As long as it is legal...I do as I like. And even then, I push the envelope sometimes.

You can monetise your operations, that's the only way to pay for a $50,000-$70,000 scanner which is what the Archivist currently costs depending on how you configure it (that's complete with the host computer read-to-go). To do professional work you're going to need to use the high quality formats... the 16-bit formats (DPX and TIFF), and 12-bit DNG and Prores 4444 XQ and that will cost more money as well as you have to build a RAID otherwise the host computer won't cope with the I/O and your maximum scanning speeds will slow down. LG can supply it set up or you can just buy 3-4 SSDs and build it yourself. And obviously you probably need another $10,000 computer for post-processing work.

I know it can sound like I give LG a bit of a bad rap, but that's not really true. Even for $70K it represents incredible value and you'll beat the pants off the quality of the older $175,000+ ScanStations that have the lower-end imagers in it. 5K 16mm on the Archivist with HDR will be near indistinguishable to 5K on the full 6.5K HDR model ScanStation (i.e. the best ScanStation).

FYI you can still buy refurbished ScanStation Personals from LG as well. So they have the option there for people that can't afford the Archivist but have enough for one of those (no idea what they're charging for them - you'd have to get a quote). They'll come with the latest software.

On 8/12/2023 at 5:43 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

Lasergraphics will still make a superior scanner no matter what. It's down to cost then and we'll see if FF can keep the cost low AND deliver a good product. 

Yep, FF doesn't have the budget to compete on the software. People say that HDR is a game-changer, one thing that is even more important than HDR is the failed-splice recovery feature. When a splice opens the scanner stops and alerts the user that there's a problem - that's an absolute game-changer when virtually any other scanner would just let the film un-spool into a tangled mess on the floor. That and it cannot drop frames, whereas the FF can - fundamental problem with the HDS+ and hopefully that's been fixed in the upcoming scanner.

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15 hours ago, Dan Baxter said:

Yep, FF doesn't have the budget to compete on the software. People say that HDR is a game-changer, one thing that is even more important than HDR is the failed-splice recovery feature. When a splice opens the scanner stops and alerts the user that there's a problem - that's an absolute game-changer when virtually any other scanner would just let the film un-spool into a tangled mess on the floor. That and it cannot drop frames, whereas the FF can - fundamental problem with the HDS+ and hopefully that's been fixed in the upcoming scanner.

I work with scans from 6.5k Scan Stations all the time, HDR and SDR, it's amazing how good they are. 

I've found if we scan a certain way on the HDS+ 4k, we can get excellent dynamic range in the blacks, which is all you're really getting out of the HDR pass anyway. The Sony imager is really good, it has excellent DR in the blacks, which of course means the highlights when you invert the image. 

If I had the space, the work AND the money, I would 100% own a Scan Station. Honestly, we had some serious talks with them recently and they were very accommodating. I almost bought a used one recently for not much money and I was going to have them update the imager. But alas, we keep on getting bogged down by limited space. It's a big problem when you also do so many other things. We have one workspace for camera repair only, one workplace for soldering/board work, which we also use as our assembly table for manufacturing. We have two desks for computer workstations for editorial/restoration. Then we have the scanner, which has it's own entire bench for the machine itself, clean box (we have a pressurized vessel the scanner goes in), all the parts and accessories. We've got a huge 3D printer workspace as well, which soon will have a 2nd machine just for production. We even have a film re-work table with splicers, rewinds and a viewer. Imagine all of that in your home, plus a 10x10 storage unit internal which is FULL of production equipment. It's kinda unsustainable, but it's inexpensive for Los Angeles. Ya learn over time living here, that finding a diamond in the rough is not easy and when you do, ya gotta keep it. So even though our space is jam packed, it's livable. The Scan Station would be an impossibility as it's profile is 2x larger than our current scanner. So hopefully the new HDS replacement, whatever it's called, will be a marketable improvement and we'll just have to "upgrade" with them. 

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