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What’s the Best Double Super 8 Camera?


Owen A. Davies

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I’m aware that there are modified Bolex H16’s going around as well as the professional Pathe DS8 camera. But in terms of ergonomic performance, modernity and ease of use, as well as quality of film registration, which would you guys consider to be the best model out there on the market? 

P.S. I’m also aware of Pro8mm’s prototype Ultra Double Super 8 camera, but I’m talking about options currently available on the market.

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A chronologic overview of the known DS-8 cameras

1.  Pathé WEBO M, France; 100-ft spools and 400' mag., spring drive, 1 and 8–80 fps, film rewind, mech. counter, membrane reflex finder with central ground area, turret with three C threads; 1965–1986

2.  LOMO Avrora Super 2 × 8, USSR; 25-ft spools, electric motor on 4.5-V batt., 1 and 18 fps, meter feeler in lid, lens T 51 M 10 mm, f/2.8, Newton finder, CdS cell; 1966–1974

3.  Arriflex DS-8, Germany; 100-ft spools, 400‘ mag., eleven examples; mirror reflex finder; 1967

4.  ELMO C-300, Japan; mags. for Double-Eight 25-ft spools, 100 ft DS-8, Super-8 and Single-8 cartridges, mech. counter frames and feet, PZ 9~36, f/1.8, prism reflex finder; DS-8 mag. in 1967

5.  Zenit Quarz M, USSR; 25-ft spools, spring drive, 1-12-18-24-36-48 fps, models with retractable claw, Jupiter 24-1, 12.5 mm, f/1.9, Newton finder, selenium cell, hammer varnish dark grey and fawn; 1968 through 1977

6.  Meopta Admira 8 G 1 Supra, CSSR; 25-ft spools, spring drive, 1-18 fps, fixfocus Mirar 12,5-2.8 (triplet), Newton finder; 1968 through 1971

7.  Meopta Admira 8 G 2 Supra, CSSR; 25-ft spools, spring drive, 1-18 B./s, fixfocus Mirar 12,5-2.8, Newton finder, ext. CdS light measuring, 12 through 27 DIN; 1968–1971

8.  Canon Zoom, Japan; 100-ft spools, electric motor on 8 AA cells, VS 165°, 1-12-18-24-36-54 fps, film rewind, prism reflex finder, zoom 7.5‒60 mm, f/1.4, CdS cell; March 1970

9.  Meopta Admira 8 L 1 Supra, CSSR; 25-ft spools, electric motor, 18 fps, fixfocus Mirar 13-2.8, Newton finder, ext. light measuring; 1971

10. Meopta Admira 8 L 2 Supra, CSSR; 25-ft spools, electric motor, 1-12-18-24 fps, fixfocus Mirar 13-2.8, Newton finder, ext. light measuring; 1971

11. Zenit Quarz 3/5, USSR; 25-ft spools, spring drive, 1-12-18-24-32-48 fps, retractable claw, film rewind, Meteor 2-3 9~36 mm, f/2.4, reflex finder with micro prisms, selenium cell; 1973

12. Ikonoskop A-Cam DS-8, Sweden; 100-ft spools, crystal controlled electric motor, sprocket drums, C mount, Newton finder; February 2007 € 5200, not released

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1 hour ago, Simon Wyss said:

Just found a site with more information about the DS-8 Arriflex. https://mimundoensuper-8.blogspot.com/2020/08/arriflex-ds8-holy-grail-of-manfred-jahn.html

Holy cow I had no idea Arri had made these! It has the same registration pin and claw configuration as a 16S, not to mention the spinning reflex mirror. That would have to be the absolute pinnacle of Super 8 camera technology, if you could find one.

They also mention a Pentaflex DS8 camera, which isn't in your otherwise very comprehensive list. That would also be a very interesting camera, if it exists. 

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3 hours ago, Simon Wyss said:

It was the engineer F. W. Planert who converted Pentaflex to DS-8 from around 1970 on. https://zeissikonveb.de/start/kameras/pentaflex-8.html. I have no idea how many of these exist.

Not too sure if you would have a good idea, but what would you say the best one for film registration would be? An obvious choice would be the Arri, but I've heard the Pathe model from the 80s was another top contender. 

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I've used quartz ds8 m, quartz zoom ds8-3, Canon zoom and a bolex H8 converted to double super 8. Shooting with the bolex is a joy, specially if you have good lenses, but I prefer using the Canon because of ergonomics and the electric system. The quartz zoom is very fun to carry around and they are reliable in my experience, they are well built.

 

This is an example of Canon :

 

 

This is an example of Bolex :

 

 

This is an example of quartz zoom :

 

I once had in my hands a pathe ds8 but unfortunately it didn't work. It is a beautiful machine. It was a pity.

The bolex and Canon examples are a very expired stuff but I must have fomapan fresh footage.

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9 hours ago, Owen A. Davies said:

Not too sure if you would have a good idea, but what would you say the best one for film registration would be? An obvious choice would be the Arri, but I've heard the Pathe model from the 80s was another top contender. 

I think that if you want to shoot 100ft your most viable choice in the market are Canon. Incredible cameras. If you want to shoot 25ft go for a zenit quarz. It's unlikely to find the other models easily in ebay.

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The Pathé WEBO M is a horrible construction, at least for the one who attempts to service it.

Arriflex DS-8 unobtainable

Meopta are service friendly, cheaply available, can be upped in optics, D-trajectory claw leaves film in same position as projector. Lateral film guidance ought to be improved, a technician should be able to do that. Large finder view. An article in German language on the Admira 8 G is downloadable from my website.

The little Avrora deserves a little more attention. You have only little horizontal parallax between finder and lens.

What I dislike about the Canon is the arrangement of the spools at the bottom.

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8 hours ago, Simon Wyss said:

The Pathé WEBO M is a horrible construction, at least for the one who attempts to service it.

Arriflex DS-8 unobtainable

Meopta are service friendly, cheaply available, can be upped in optics, D-trajectory claw leaves film in same position as projector. Lateral film guidance ought to be improved, a technician should be able to do that. Large finder view. An article in German language on the Admira 8 G is downloadable from my website.

The little Avrora deserves a little more attention. You have only little horizontal parallax between finder and lens.

What I dislike about the Canon is the arrangement of the spools at the bottom.

I took a look at the Avrova.  Did they take some sort of battery pack?  The battery compartment didn’t look like it took any batteries I’m familiar with.

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11 hours ago, Simon Wyss said:

The Pathé WEBO M is a horrible construction, at least for the one who attempts to service it.

Arriflex DS-8 unobtainable

Meopta are service friendly, cheaply available, can be upped in optics, D-trajectory claw leaves film in same position as projector. Lateral film guidance ought to be improved, a technician should be able to do that. Large finder view. An article in German language on the Admira 8 G is downloadable from my website.

The little Avrora deserves a little more attention. You have only little horizontal parallax between finder and lens.

What I dislike about the Canon is the arrangement of the spools at the bottom.

Thank you for the info. I was thinking of trying to nab a converted Bolex H16, and I think that’s what I’ll go with.

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11 hours ago, Pablo Cruz Villalba said:

I think that if you want to shoot 100ft your most viable choice in the market are Canon. Incredible cameras. If you want to shoot 25ft go for a zenit quarz. It's unlikely to find the other models easily in ebay.

Are there any cameras you know of that would happen to accept 400ft magazines?

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