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The Knowledge Gained From Big Sets


Max Field

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Was looking for an info dump from a community that collectively has far more experience working on big sets with big crews than I do. I've worked on mostly sets with less than 4 camera/lighting/tech people collaborating at once, lot's of crew members taking on multiple jobs.

Has anyone here who made the jump to working on those larger sets with 20+ crew members have any advice or info on the learning curve that presents despite being well read in cinematography and film production?

Thanks.

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My career was such a gradual trajectory in terms of crew and budgets that there were few “jumps” involved, it’s just a matter of scaling up and down for the most part. And the bigger things get, the more help you have, the more things get delegated, it’s not like you are personally instructing 50 people for each set-up.

One of the bigger jumps happens when doing mostly location work with a mix of available light to doing soundstage work and recreating natural daylight on a large scale.

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I had no problems moving from our own sets which was between ten and thirty people to a lot bigger projects. 
I worked in a couple different positions without a problem.

But I had always done things the same way as if it was a bigger shoot when working on smaller stuff and I think that helped a lot and also when I started out I worked as an background extra so I could observe what was happening behind the scenes. 

The only thing that kind of put me off on some of these bigger shoots was some people were always grumpy and gave off this really negative vibe. Which is kind of funny because as stuff that we shoot gets gradually bigger and bigger it's getting a lot easier because there are more and more people involved and everyone has really good energy. Sometimes it honestly makes me sad when we wrap up a project. 

But my biggest jump was when we went from shooting our no budget film to shooting a fully funded commercial. My next goal is to get a fully funded film together. 

Also one big step up was not so much the crew size or equipment for me but more the ability to work with professional actors which was something really unexpected compared to the other projects. 

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I'd say the biggest mental changeup, is how to fit in with a large crew you are new too. Most of the time if you are brought in as a day player, the regular crew has probably worked together for years, and have a routine. NO two crews are alike, and one has to observe and figure out how you can fit in to the flow. First thing is that you have to observe the lighting set up, the rigging crew has already done a lot of the work setting up, and you have to size up what the shooting crews task at hand. Usually the most deceptive simple setups are the most complicated. Read the call sheet study how production has planned the day, how much they plan to do before lunch, most importantly especially if you are outside, observe the weather conditions, where the sun is. Almost think like the DP, who has a job to do , within a limited time. That way you can anticipate what is going to happen before the DP tells the gaffer and the key grip what he needs. Being observant and in position, is alike a basket ball game, where you know where to be on court during a fast break. Eventually you will figure out how to work with different crews and you will find you phone  ringing for more days on set.

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I agree with Victor. Trying to fit in with a bunch of strangers who know each other can be a challenge. But also as challenging, you have to fit into a system that involves a lot more people who have their ways of doing things. Even though the general process may be the same, the details of their way of working may be very different. Their rules of engagement may be new to you and something you need to follow. Be a quick study and earn their respect.

I’ve been in charge of many camera departments made up of 20-60 members. it becomes all about management. Everyone there will assume that you know the craft of cinematography and the job. That’s why you’re there. You just don’t want to prove them wrong! 
 

Attached is a picture of my First Unit Camera Department on THE FAST & the FURIOUS 7. Great example of a large department for a large movie. 
G
 

3BA7C294-F4E3-4204-96E7-084234D0511D.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Gregory Irwin said:

Attached is a picture of my First Unit Camera Department on THE FAST & the FURIOUS 7. Great example of a large department for a large movie. 
G
 

3BA7C294-F4E3-4204-96E7-084234D0511D.jpeg

Is there an effect on that photo or is LA that thickly shrouded in smog? lol

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On 1/21/2022 at 11:51 PM, Vital Butinar said:

The only thing that kind of put me off on some of these bigger shoots was some people were always grumpy and gave off this really negative vibe.

I found that in spades.

On small stuff, often there's this sort of nervous energy and suppressed excitement because you're often surrounded by enthusiastic young people who are often very new and getting to do something they don't get to do very often. Sometimes, rarely, that can overflow into self-doubt and unhappiness, but rarely, so long as you don't overstretch people to the point where they conspicuously fail.

But the bigger things get, the more is at stake. I don't know what it's like right now - I've barely been near a big set since pandemic - but certainly in the UK there was always a threatening undercurrent of looming unemployment that made people taciturn and hard to engage with. As a very occasional cameraman I (deliberately) never worked with what I would call a real grip or electrician because I don't think I ever met one I liked, or felt like having around all day, scowling balefully at everything and telling everyone that they didn't do it like this on insert-huge-job.

Based on significantly less experience my observation is that this is much less the case in the USA where employment is more regular and people are in general more externally cheerful. Not to say people don't work very hard or aren't under an enormous amount of pressure to perform as standards are very high; I think Americans work some crazy hours sometimes, and not just in the film industry, but somehow it seems to come off as good pressure promoting esprit de corps and common purpose as opposed to just a miserable grind with constant uncomfortable awareness of one's own replaceability.

The sad reality, though, is that working on film sets is nothing like what people see in the behind-the-scenes material and a lot of new entrants are really woken up to that rather rudely.

 

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2 hours ago, Phil Rhodes said:

The sad reality, though, is that working on film sets is nothing like what people see in the behind-the-scenes material and a lot of new entrants are really woken up to that rather rudely.

the general issue is that general public and the press get all their "information" about the film industry working practices and conditions from the marketing material the production companies and distributors publish, they don't get any unbiased information from anywhere ... there is no reliable information available at all and thus the new persons considering film career think that the working conditions are like this pink hollywood dreamlike summer camp image the marketing materials try to sell.  

People make their first production thinking that the disappointment would be an exception and it would get better in the next one. Well it will NOT and after working on three or four productions they give up and will find other work. It is quite an issue here in Finland actually because there is not enough basic crew in the tv-series shoots and movie productions because the new-ish people are driven away by this steep difference between their expectations (which they got from the marketing materials like making ofs and such) and the reality of actually working on set.

For me the biggest issue has been that DIT work is rarely appreciated or understood here and people often seem to think that I am just  "some lazy runner who only shows up half an hour before the wrap, loitering around and eating all the good stuff from the catering table without doing anything useful like the rest of us or the real runners do".  It seems to be pretty impossible to explain to them what I do on the set and where all the day's materials go after everyone else wraps so that they will be safely backed up and how the dailies magically appear in the frame.io after each shooting day. 

So I would avoid crew positions where you are treated like a "stupid machine which does not quite work correctly all the time" and instead concentrate on positions where you can get close to the set and work with the crew most of the day every day. I would actually rather do runner work nowadays instead of DIT work if I got to choose, it is much more fun to be a runner and people actually appreciate your work then and you even get to sleep at night after the shooting days ? 

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On 1/21/2022 at 6:51 PM, Vital Butinar said: 

The only thing that kind of put me off on some of these bigger shoots was some people were always grumpy and gave off this really negative vibe. 

 

I’ve certainly experienced this in the past and because of that, I won’t tolerate bad attitudes or any lack of mutual respect from my team. They represent me as I do them. It’s our reputation that keeps the big budget pictures coming our way. My full time camera team members, who have been with me for years, always project a good attitude, a sense of humor when things get tough and they have the experience to keep things in perspective. They are comfortable in their own skin to be performing at the level they’re at.
On movie sets, there is really nothing that should trigger grumpiness and bad attitudes, except for Alec Baldwin shooting someone. Safety issues are the only things that will get me wound up representing the entire crew. Otherwise, we should feel privileged to have a job performing the craft we love so much. 

G

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4 hours ago, Gregory Irwin said:

I’ve certainly experienced this in the past and because of that, I won’t tolerate bad attitudes or any lack of mutual respect from my team. They represent me as I do them. It’s our reputation that keeps the big budget pictures coming our way. My full time camera team members, who have been with me for years, always project a good attitude, a sense of humor when things get tough and they have the experience to keep things in perspective. They are comfortable in their own skin to be performing at the level they’re at.
On movie sets, there is really nothing that should trigger grumpiness and bad attitudes, except for Alec Baldwin shooting someone. Safety issues are the only things that will get me wound up representing the entire crew. Otherwise, we should feel privileged to have a job performing the craft we love so much. 

G

Exactly my point. 

I mean I've only had a hand full of chances to work on really big shoots but every single time there was a light technician or someone who was always in a bad mood without exception.

I remember even one time when I was on screen where they had this overweight steady cam operator who was really annoying and kept snapping at people because he couldn't do the shot the director wanted and got tired.

It's really weird because we started with really small productions and kind of grew from there and these days the productions have gotten a little bigger and on our biggest projects we have between 20 and 40 people working on set. Now all these people are our own team that we built and the funny thing is that there's nobody there in a bad mood, we're all ways in a good mood. I've even had people come up to me and tell me that they really enjoyed it and they're really sad that the project is over because they had so much fun. 

I get it that people are pissed off because they work long hours and don't get payed enough but that something you have to take up with the producers etc. and not with their coworkers. 

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As David said, it's the law of averages. The more people on set, the greater the chance you'll run into someone who is just an asshole. 

I also find, it really depends on how tight you are with your crew. I get thrown onto other peoples crews all the time and I feel like a 5th wheel always. Even as a DP being thrown onto a commercial, a lot of the same crew have worked together before and you're just learning the ropes like it's your first day shooting ever. It can be super stressful and if it's a commercial, you may never get to know anyone. It's only on the bigger shows like TV or features, where you'll get to know people and things can get smoother over time. On smaller day play shows, the politics run wild and they can really suck. I've seen directors have full on meltdowns, I've seen people walk off sets and never return, I've seen open arguments between "creatives" in public. It's sad when those things happen, but drama on set is just one of those things on day play shoots. I'd much rather work on a cushy studio based TV series or feature film, especially as a DP.  

Anyway, 20 person crew is small potato's. Think about it for a second. Just the camera department should have a minimal of 4 people; 1) DP 2)AC/puller 3)2nd AC 4)Loader/Clapper. Then you've got Director, Producer, unit production manager, location manager, script supervisor, two people in audio, gaffer, two grips, two electricians, art department lead, two art assistants, makeup, wardrobe, hair, DIT, crafty and at least two PA's. That's 26 people and in my opinion the "minimal" crew for any professional production really and that's only one camera. Most shoots today have two cameras, so the camera crew is doubled making 29 people. On average, every feature I've worked on, has had well over 30 crew members and that feels so damn small. On the bigger shows, we'll have well over 50 crew members, especially if there are any sets, crane arms, Steadicam and car shots. You may bring in a dozen day players on top of your 30 person crew just to deal with things that happen specifically on that day's shooting schedule. 

What separates the bigger "union" shows vs the lower budget shows in my opinion, is the professionalism. People just know what they're doing on a pro set. They don't spend much time talking, they spend time doing things and that's part of the reason why it can be hard to learn. If you don't know the lingo, you'll be lost. Heck, I've worked on dozens of multi-million dollar shows, I still only know a very small percentage of the lingo, I just never use it in my daily life, so I have to always refresh my memory before those shows. When I'm a DP, I just let my gaffer figure out the nuances and let him use the lingo with his crew. For me, I'm just around to work with the director at making pretty images. I just turn off everything else and focus on that, no matter how big or small the crew is.

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