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A Lasergraphics Director scanner on eBay $145K


Daniel D. Teoli Jr.

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Lasergraphics The Director Motion Picture Film Scanner & 3 Modules 2K 4K & 16mm | eBay

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...diagnostic fee of $11,500

...warranty fee of $17,250

How much is support? Or is that free with the warranty?

Interesting heads.

 

Edited by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.
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3 hours ago, Mark Dunn said:

Alarming that a company won't even make a 10-year-old machine usable unless you pay them another $30k. Or am I missing something.

If you bought a C&C machine from a company that was 10yrs old or a 10yr old John Deere automated farming combine and you wanted it to be under service contract it would be a similar percentage of the original cost to be under service. Same with a Scannity or Arriscan as they are professional tools with high initial costs.

Of course they will never sell this Director for anywhere near that asking price on eBay and the latest Director is a completely different gate and camera system etc. etc.

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Unlike those on this site, we are not experts on this device. We are military veterans that do our best to run a company based on honesty and integrity. We are here to seek advice and sell this system at a reasonable price. Whatever that price may be. A price based on information gained from professionals on this site. Yes, we purchased the unit from the government and did our best to educate ourselves before doing so. We have spoken with Lasergraphics several times about this units history, as well as the necessary steps to make it fully functional again. The unit is difficult to price because we have nothing to compare it to. Instead of telling us what we're doing wrong, please educate us on what where we need to be on price. If we can get some appropriate feedback, we can start reducing the price until we get it where it needs to be. We appreciate your courtesy.  

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4 hours ago, Monte Nesmejanow said:

Unlike those on this site, we are not experts on this device. We are military veterans that do our best to run a company based on honesty and integrity.

Hey Monte, most of the guys here I think are well-meaning, and no one can accuse you of doing anything misleading as you've listed machine quite accurately from what I can tell (2010 model with the specific options that it comes with).

There's probably someone here with experience with Directors from this time who could be a lot more help than me, I think that unlike a lot of other equipment like projectors, film cleaners, and some of the medical equipment you're more used to the technology with scanning has advanced at a very rapid pace.

Most of the companies with the budget for a 6-figure scanning system would probably want something a lot more modern, but upgrading it should be possible so someone may be interested in it for a 5-figure sum. I'm no expert, but I would think that it's of limited use how it is - at 1 frame per second it would take 8 hours to scan a 20 minute reel (the listed 4K scanning speed) so more likely you could only really use it for 2K scanning in 2022 until you got an upgrade package for it, but with the global chip shortage expect that to take months.

14 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

How much is support? Or is that free with the warranty?

I think the warranty @ $17K/year includes parts, service, and support. As Robert says that kind of fee is fairly standard for any type of professional/workshop equipment, but the difference being that a CNC machine or medical equipment will probably have a much longer useful life before becoming obsolete.

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55 minutes ago, Dan Baxter said:

Hey Monte, most of the guys here I think are well-meaning, and no one can accuse you of doing anything misleading as you've listed machine quite accurately from what I can tell (2010 model with the specific options that it comes with).

There's probably someone here with experience with Directors from this time who could be a lot more help than me, I think that unlike a lot of other equipment like projectors, film cleaners, and some of the medical equipment you're more used to the technology with scanning has advanced at a very rapid pace.

Most of the companies with the budget for a 6-figure scanning system would probably want something a lot more modern, but upgrading it should be possible so someone may be interested in it for a 5-figure sum. I'm no expert, but I would think that it's of limited use how it is - at 1 frame per second it would take 8 hours to scan a 20 minute reel (the listed 4K scanning speed) so more likely you could only really use it for 2K scanning in 2022 until you got an upgrade package for it, but with the global chip shortage expect that to take months.

I think the warranty @ $17K/year includes parts, service, and support. As Robert says that kind of fee is fairly standard for any type of professional/workshop equipment, but the difference being that a CNC machine or medical equipment will probably have a much longer useful life before becoming obsolete.

I frame per second? If true, I'd think it is pretty useless. 

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6 hours ago, Monte Nesmejanow said:

Unlike those on this site, we are not experts on this device. We are military veterans that do our best to run a company based on honesty and integrity. We are here to seek advice and sell this system at a reasonable price.

HI

Maybe I can add some situational awareness to this.

1. This is a very specialized machine for a specific high end segment of the film business, this means high initial cost and extreme depreciation. A 2008 DFT Spirit 4K or Arri Arriscan (this machine's competitors) initially sold for $600,000-$2M and are now valued at around $30K-$40k on the used market, running.

2. It is unclear in this eBay listing if the machine runs or not and what options it has, the built in computer is not plugged in and the eBay listing says the hard drive was removed, I understand the general Military policy procedures as I have personally done consulting work in the film/video biz for the US Naval War College-War gaming dept. so I understand the policy on removing drives in general. If you are lucky there may be a thumb drive taped inside the chassis or inside the computer to restore the computer to it's original Windows 7 and scanner install, I would check as this would be a big point on getting the machine into a running / saleable state without the major cost of having LaserGraphics bring it to a "current" state of software release.

3. LaserGraphics is particularly rigid and protective of new machine sales over support or upgrades of older machines they have sold. The Director is a "Current" model but there are little similarities between the new Director 10K and this 2010 model, only the chassis and the platter system to hold the film are the same. Most possible sales prospects for this model of machine are large clients like Sony or other big studios, they generally lease new machines to write down the depreciation.

4. This model original Director may be old and slow but it is a true RGB pin registered scanner and it still has some big advantages over the new faster scanners like the Scan Station 6.5K which has a fast color camera. This Director has a monochrome camera and does sequential R , G , B , IR "Flashes" to make true color and the "New" scanners do not meet the requirements for color accuracy for very high end clients.

So In My Opinion if you can get this machine running to it's original state it would be a fine machine to offer to a very niche business doing motion picture scans for maybe $30-40K.

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Thanks Robert, some great points. Only one I disagree with is the options it has (point 2) I think Monte has clarified that pretty well actually.

1 hour ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

I frame per second? If true, I'd think it is pretty useless. 

That's the 4K speed, 2K is listed as 6.8fps which is more than acceptable in speed even today. You can read the specs here, but don't forget there's a good dose of LG marketing as well as features listed which cost extra.

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15 hours ago, Robert Houllahan said:

If you bought a C&C machine from a company that was 10yrs old or a 10yr old John Deere automated farming combine and you wanted it to be under service contract it would be a similar percentage of the original cost to be under service. Same with a Scannity or Arriscan as they are professional tools with high initial costs.

Of course they will never sell this Director for anywhere near that asking price on eBay and the latest Director is a completely different gate and camera system etc. etc.

 

What may be alarming to some is the diagnostic fee $11,500.

Since you are into farming, a neighbor had a lawn tractor that was not running looked at. They charged him $60 to pick it up and redeliver when done. The 'diagnostic fee' was $45 and applied to the repair bill of $297.00. That is what people are used paying when dealing with mechanical items. 

Sure, Lasergraphics got to fly someone out to look at it, so it is more money than the lawn tractor.  But does the Lasergraphics diagnostic fee also include all repairs and parts? Or is it just to look at it and evaluate what repairs are needed?

Wouldn't that be something if you paid $11,500 for them to look at it and they tell it is another $150,000 to update it?

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LG told us the diagnostic was mandatory to reinstate the warranty. We were also told that the diagnostic and warranty cost included updated software.

There are several ways that we are willing to approach this;

1. Sell it like it is at an agreed upon price (as-is). As stated from the beginning, we are willing to take offers.

2. No risk to the buyer. Sell it at an agreed upon price with a guarantee (as it is now). The buyer is responsible for the diagnostic and warranty reinstatement. If after the diagnostic is complete, LG determines that additional repairs are needed, we will refund the buyers full purchase price. This includes the cost of the diagnostic. 

3. End the listing. My company takes care for the diagnostic and new warranty (1 year) and then puts the system up for sale. The system now has a clean bill of health from LG and current software. However, to do this, we need a better understanding of the systems value once it's fully functional. 

4. Auction it off to the highest bidder. Yes, this is how we acquired it. 

Again, we posted this system on this site because of the knowledge base here. We put a number on it because we didn't know where to start. We are uneducated on this device, not greedy.

We appreciate your helpful feedback.

Monte

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5 hours ago, Monte Nesmejanow said:

3. End the listing. My company takes care for the diagnostic and new warranty (1 year) and then puts the system up for sale. The system now has a clean bill of health from LG and current software. However, to do this, we need a better understanding of the systems value once it's fully functional.

That will put your company at the greatest risk for ROI as you could easily expect to have it for a couple of years before you can find a buyer.

You could auction it off with the likelihood of making a loss.

Another option may be to lease it to a company that wants to put it into use, then you could draw up a 12-month or 24-month lease that will easily cover the costs to set it back up, and at the end of the lease period transfer ownership to the new company for an agreed (nominal) price. That would seem a lower-risk option than out laying nearly $30K to set it up in the hopes of finding a buyer. You may be able to find a small company perhaps an archive or something for which this would be an attractive option.

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21 minutes ago, Monte Nesmejanow said:

I appreciate the feedback. Definitely an option.

As I said above too, you should check to see if the install thumb drive is taped to the computer and or chassis. This way you could have someone install a new boot drive and get the machine running in it's original installed state. LaserGraphics provided the thumb drive with the machine when it was delivered, it should be on the machine or with the documentation.

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On 1/28/2022 at 1:12 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

Oh great, spend $170k or so, to get 2010 tech, or $170k to get a Lasergraphics Scan Station that's 6.5k, fully modernized and fast. Hmmmmm. 

This is a very different machine than a Scanstation. Apples to oranges here. Even though this is older, it's a very good machine, and frankly I think not a bad price at $100k. 

On 1/28/2022 at 1:29 PM, Mark Dunn said:

Alarming that a company won't even make a 10-year-old machine usable unless you pay them another $30k. Or am I missing something.

It is 100% reasonable for a company that makes such a complex machine to want to do a diagnostic check on it before they're willing to give you a warranty. A warranty is a legally binding agreement, where they'll be on the hook to repair something that breaks. What if something is completely messed up due to someone tinkering with it? or if a part is irreparably damaged and will need replacement? Also because we're talking about a mechanical system, this may involve sending someone to check it out in person. I honestly don't see an issue with that fee.

As for the annual support contract fee (the warranty fee mentioned in the listing), I'm not sure how many times this needs to be discussed here, but it is what it is and it's in line with the industry standard. That warranty covers both technical support and software updates, as well as discounted replacement parts should something fail. 

Another thing to keep in mind - given the global supply chain issues and especially semiconductor shortages, it would be no surprise if any fixes or replacement parts had to be custom made using newer parts that are no longer available. I know quite a few folks who do hardware design, who have had to completely redesign boards around what's currently available. And that's changing day by day.

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12 hours ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

This is a very different machine than a Scanstation. Apples to oranges here. Even though this is older, it's a very good machine, and frankly I think not a bad price at $100k. 

Well yea, it's pin registered and has a totally different imager setup. But... 4k in 2022 is just not sustainable. Maybe if you could update the imager, the chassis and movement are worth keeping. 

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Pin registered 4K scans @ 1fps?  Seems perfectly reasonable if you want pin-registered scans. 

It's a specialized scanner; not a bulk library or transfer machine; it was designed for DI work intended to go back out to film and was prior to really robust electronic stabilization option to be had now.

It makes me laugh to hear all the complaining about the speed.  Just like our Oxberry Oxscan, they love to derisively point out how slow it is and they refuse to use it.

It really upsets them when I point out that, if you don't load it and push the "go" button, it effectively scans at 0 fps and they wasted $100K for nothing.

Frick:  "The food is really bad here"

Frack:  " Yes and the portions are so small!"

 

 

Edited by Frank Wylie
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5 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Well yea, it's pin registered and has a totally different imager setup. But... 4k in 2022 is just not sustainable. Maybe if you could update the imager, the chassis and movement are worth keeping. 

Sorry, but that's ridiculous (says the person building a 14k scanner). About 60% of the scanning work we do is 4k. The rest is still 2k. We're just wrapping up a job scanning 140,000 feet of film at 2k, in fact. 

If I had the budget for it right now, I'd buy this scanner.  

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3 hours ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

Sorry, but that's ridiculous (says the person building a 14k scanner). About 60% of the scanning work we do is 4k.

Right, you actually see the necessity of having higher resolution lol ?

But yes, for 35mm commercial people generally want more than 4k. They'll take it if it's the only thing, but they want more. For 16mm and super 8, it's 4k nearly always for those clients. 

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Just now, Tyler Purcell said:

Right, you actually see the necessity of having higher resolution lol ?

the 14k scanner is a specialized thing. it's for 70mm. Yes, higher resolutions are better in most cases, but the fact is, a 4k scanner like this will pay for itself at that price. 

 

1 minute ago, Tyler Purcell said:

But yes, for 35mm commercial people generally want more than 4k.

This is a stretch.

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3 hours ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

Yes, higher resolutions are better in most cases, but the fact is, a 4k scanner like this will pay for itself at that price. 

Not at 1-3 fps

Tho I guess at $1 per foot, you can make a lot of money. I just don't see the market for that pricing, especially at 16mm and 35mm. This is why everyone dumped slower machines, even though many of them are BETTER scanners than modern ones. Speed is almost more important than many other things. 

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23 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Not at 1-3 fps

We have run our scanstation at those speeds and it's really not the end of the world. As Frank Wylie pointed out above, 1-3 frames per second is more scanning than 0 frames per second. And you can do a feature in a bit more than a day at 3fps. Most scans are not complete features. 

If you're trying to do high volume work, this isn't the scanner for you. But that's not what this scanner is for. 

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