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Work horse lens Super 16 Eclair NPR


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Hi guys,

Bit of a curly one here that might take experience in a few different ways to answer.

I've got a super 16 Eclair npr with PL mount and C mount (coming in the post soon) and I'd like to get another lens for it. Preferable a prime, though I have an open mind. I have a Bell and Howell 70dr for higher frame rate needs, so that'd be a bonus if it's C mount. But again, I'm open to PL mount ideas too. Any parfocal zoom recommendations? Although they grow in price rapidly from a many of the primes.

The lens would obviously need to cover the s16 area, but I also want it to be able to use it in a broad range of applications. I know that sounds vague, but struggling to find lens tests online to see if I prefer, say, the Switar 16mm over the 10mm, for instance. Even if I had the camera already, there's no way for me to see through the view finder to test out said lens. Everything's on eBay or Du All. The s16 ones can get pricy so don't want to just buy something blindly.

Anyone have any sources that show framing of different focal lengths for super 16 of say, a mid-shot? I'd appreciate any advice you have... also affordability vs payoff.

-Mikey

 

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It's kinda hard to give recommendations without being given a budget. Have all the money in the world? Get the Zeiss Ultra16s or Cooke sk4s. Have a mid-budget? Get Zeiss Super Speeds or Optar Illuminas. Have no money? Adapt still lenses to c-mount (although unfortunately you'll be stuck to mostly long lenses). As for zooms, if they actually cover super-16 (a lot of the eBay listings lie about that), they usually hover around $3k-6k (your Canon 8-64mm, Zeiss 11-110mm, etc). You could alternatively get a full frame zoom, but the only one that goes down to a normal focal length on super 16 that is not wildly expensive is the Tokina 11-20mm T2.9. That is also an incredibly shoot zoom range. The Sigma 18-35mm T2 isn't a bad choice, but at $4k, you might as well get a legit super-16 zoom.

As someone who isn't loaded, I've got the following for my ACL (which has a similar mount to your NPR): 16mm Optar Illumina PL, Zeiss 25mm Super Speed MK2 PL, Zeiss 55mm Otus F-mount, and a Zeiss Digizoom 6-24mm B4 with an IBE adapter. The key is regularly checking for good listings on eBay and on this forum.

3 hours ago, Mikey Collins said:

Anyone have any sources that show framing of different focal lengths for super 16 of say, a mid-shot?

Do you mean visualizing what different focal lengths look like on super-16? There are a couple good director's viewfinder apps. I quite like Artemis Pro.

Edited by Raymond Zrike
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You really need to be more specific about what you plan to shoot, otherwise there are too many variables and possible choices.

You have a more or less sync sound camera in an NPR so are you planning to shoot narrative drama? In which case you'll want lenses that can operate with a follow focus or motor and do accurate focus pulling, something that C mount lenses are not suitable for. If you want to make experimental music vids you can probably get by with just about anything. If you plan to shoot surf movies or nature docs you'll want something more telephoto, etc.

Will you be shooting in low light, or wanting a shallow depth of field look, where faster lenses will be useful?

Do you want a clean modern look, or are you happy with a more low con vintage feel? 

What's your budget, less than 1K, up to 7K? There tends to be a jump from pretty old zooms (C mount or old Arri mounts) that can be under 1K to much better pro PL zooms that tend to be over 5K. Same thing with an old C mount prime vs something like a Zeiss Super Speed. Most wide C mounts don't cover S16 either, or only barely do.

If you just want to know what a focal length looks like on S16, you can apply a crop factor calculation to something you already own (35mm stills camera?) to get a sense of it. I like this calculator, it not only gives comparison focal lengths but shows roughly what distance you might need for a headshot or full body shot depending on focal length and format, plus DoF info etc:

https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/depth-of-field-and-equivalent-lens-calculator/#{"c":[{"f":27,"av":"2","fl":16,"d":1829,"cm":"0"}],"m":0}

Roughly speaking, for S16 a 10mm would be starting to get wide, normal would be 20-25mm, and over 40mm starts to become telephoto.

 

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Thanks for the replies guys. I did failed to mention budget, a major factor! Probably looking around $1000, as I've just bought the camera package so need to chill out for a bit. Raymond, I'll look at Artemis Pro, that sounds great. In terms of application, I still remain vague here. I guess another way of putting is... what lens could you not do without? Something that could be applied to say Doc work and music videos. Is it fair to say a normal 20-25mmm as you suggest Dom?

I appreciate your patience.

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I've always taken S16 focal lengths to be 1/2 their S35 equivalent, even while realizing this is imprecise. On the other hand, I feel like 16mm film has significantly less resolution than 35mm film (or digital) so there's a tendency to go for a slightly tighter focal length.

I think the Scoopic has a 12.5mm-75mm "normal" zoom and the K3 a 17-69mm zoom. Whereas to me 20-60mm is more "normal" on S35, implying 10-30mm should be on S16. (And hey, there's my dream lens, the 10-30mm t1.5 Cooke I can't afford!)

I find digital scans much sharper than analogue prints, so to me that mitigates the softness a bit and reaffirms my 10-30mm love.

Unpopular opinion probably, but at your budget level I'd buy something like this:

https://www.adorama.com/kfc06315.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw9-KTBhBcEiwAr19ig3NQNFTFMcgjGAQRpcTsTYv5dnCZa8wY_czkDFjnKjWE6siFFSB0FhoCIPUQAvD_BwE&gclid=CjwKCAjw9-KTBhBcEiwAr19ig3NQNFTFMcgjGAQRpcTsTYv5dnCZa8wY_czkDFjnKjWE6siFFSB0FhoCIPUQAvD_BwE&utm_source=adl-gbase-p

And a 16mm f2.0 and 10mm f2.8 Nikkor mount Rokinon or something. The 14-20mm Tokina l think looks ideal but it's gelded. If you can get your hands on a cheap 11-16mm PL Tokina, that seems okay, too. 

It's interesting (to me, maybe no one else) but on digital I think I'd love the look of super speeds. Whereas on film, U16s.

On either, 10-30mm t1.5 Cooke. If I can't afford it and I still love it, I'm pretty sure that means it's not bias but unrequited love. ?

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3 hours ago, Mikey Collins said:

what lens could you not do without?

If you're wanting one single lens to start off at $1k, I'd wait around for a good deal on a 16mm Super Speed MkI (which most consider normal on super-16). Then you can pick up the 12mm and 25mm at some point. I don't really recommend the 9.5mm though. It's pretty soft until f/2.8.

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