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Tungsten Film for night exterior


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I am a student shooting on super 16, I am using tungsten Film Stock. There is a night exterior shot and I am wondering if The tungsten film stock will have an issue picking up the “blue moonlight” correctly  so long as the “moonlight” is giving off a color temperature of probably around 4100k or am I missing a necessary step to make up for the fact the film is made for tungsten?

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Moonlight has a colour temperature of roughly 5600K, since it's sunlight reflected off the moon. So, usually full colour temperature blue gel filter is used on tungsten lights or daylight colour temperature lights are used with tungsten film stocks for a moonlight effect.

Of course, you don't have to use that convention and you can go for a less blue effect instead, it depends on the look you want.

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Sunlight bouncing off of the Moon lowers the color temperature to a measured 4100K but honestly I think it’s higher than that — I’ve taken photos by moonlight in the desert and if the camera is set to 3200K, the moonlight is pretty blue-ish. I’d say it’s more like 4300 or 4700K… keep in mind that underexposed blue daylight light looks more saturated than fully exposed uncorrected daylight. And in reality in moonlight our eyes see more with their rods instead of cones so colors are muted.

Ultimately how blue to make moonlight, if blue at all, is more of a creative choice.

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Generally you gel tungsten lights blue to match the natural light’s color temperature in day interiors, assuming you want a match.

Then whether you use a correction filter on the camera to correct tungsten film to daylight is up to you, some people use a partial correction or no correction and then correct it in color-correction later.

Moonlit (artificial) night interiors tend to be low-light so you might gel lights to get the color you want but you wouldn’t need to use correction filters.

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9 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

Sunlight bouncing off of the Moon lowers the color temperature to a measured 4100K but honestly I think it’s higher than that — I’ve taken photos by moonlight in the desert and if the camera is set to 3200K, the moonlight is pretty blue-ish. I’d say it’s more like 4300 or 4700K… keep in mind that underexposed blue daylight light looks more saturated than fully exposed uncorrected daylight. And in reality in moonlight our eyes see more with their rods instead of cones so colors are muted.

Interesting, the colour of the moon also tends to vary depending on how high in the sky it is, same as the sun. From memory, moonlight seems to be most blue in maritime environments, of course, that could just be subjective.

The full blue convention may be a carry over from day for night, when tungsten film is traditionally shot in daylight without an 85 and DPs not wanting to lose any light output from daylight lamps when shooting large night exteriors, especially in the days of 50ASA and 100ASA film stocks.

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Are you aftering a moonlit scene or a shot of the moon itself in background of a composed and artificially lit scene? If you could describe your actual intended shots this might be more helpful.

If you put an 85B daylight correction filter on your camera, you will lose 2/3rds or more of a stop. This muchly defeats the choice of using tungsten-balanced film which was originally purposed towards gaining the most faithful colour rendition out of the once common tungsten lamps which are limited by available power sources. Daylight has plenty of power to spare when correction filters are used.

Filters will require you to light your subjects more strongly and if your lighting is to be LED or HMI which is nearer to daylight colour temperature, then the decision for tungsten balanced film might need to be re-examined. 

You might be able to take a bet each way and use a 81EF filter which may leave you with a little blueness in the colour but leave you with a bit more wriggle room for colour grading. You will still lose about 2/3rds of a stop. It confers a sweet effect in very early twilight with the sunset sky in background. 

What speed (ASA or ISO) is your tungsten balanced film? I doubt that moonlight alone will give you much of an image of anything except the moon itself or light clouds across or around it either as a shot or in background of a scene. The moon itself can be quite bright. If you want detail of the moon's surface, then you will need to set the lens aperture to suit. 

David Mullen can advise better than I can about exposure for the moon. 

Is something like this what you are seeking to film?
 

 

Here is a link to another discussion which may assist you.

https://www.rogerdeakins.com/camera/working-with-filters/

Edited by Robert Hart
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2 hours ago, Robert Hart said:

Are you aftering a moonlit scene or a shot of the moon itself in background of a composed and artificially lit scene? If you could describe your actual intended shots this might be more helpful.

If you put an 85B daylight correction filter on your camera, you will lose 2/3rds or more of a stop. This muchly defeats the choice of using tungsten-balanced film which was originally purposed towards gaining the most faithful colour rendition out of the once common tungsten lamps which are limited by available power sources. Daylight has plenty of power to spare when correction filters are used.

Filters will require you to light your subjects more strongly and if your lighting is to be LED or HMI which is nearer to daylight colour temperature, then the decision for tungsten balanced film might need to be re-examined. 

You might be able to take a bet each way and use a 81EF filter which may leave you with a little blueness in the colour but leave you with a bit more wriggle room for colour grading. You will still lose about 2/3rds of a stop. It confers a sweet effect in very early twilight with the sunset sky in background. 

What speed (ASA or ISO) is your tungsten balanced film? I doubt that moonlight alone will give you much of an image of anything except the moon itself or light clouds across or around it either as a shot or in background of a scene. The moon itself can be quite bright. If you want detail of the moon's surface, then you will need to set the lens aperture to suit. 

David Mullen can advise better than I can about exposure for the moon. 

Is something like this what you are seeking to film?
 

 

Here is a link to another discussion which may assist you.

https://www.rogerdeakins.com/camera/working-with-filters/

Thank you! This article is great.

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