Essential Focal Lengths for Prime Set?

Raymond Zrike · July 13, 2022

Trying to build out a prime set for super-16 (for my own use and to rent out). What focal lengths do you all use the most often on super-16? Do you need a 9.5mm in the set if there is already a wider lens available, like a 6mm? Need both 12mm and 16mm? Etc

Pretend you’re shooting with the best of the best, Ultra 16s, so the quality of the lenses are not a factor.

I know it’s a bit of a dumb question considering every project is different, but I’m just asking for generalities.

Chance Shirley · July 13, 2022

This is of course largely a matter of opinion. That said, for S16mm, I lean the most on 12mm and 16mm lenses, so those two are a must. Going out from there, add a 9.5 and a 25. And what the heck, throw in an 8 and a 50, too.

But on my average shoot, I’ll be using the 12 or 16 80+% of the time.

Also, I have nice 25mm and 50mm lenses (Optar Illuminas, Arri B mount) for sale if you’re interested.

David Sekanina · July 13, 2022

For me it always helps to do a quick full frame comparison - crop factor of roughly 3x

So a 8, 9, 12, 16 and 25mm compare to a 24, 27, 36, 48 and 75mm in full frame.

So the focal lengths 8mm and a 9mm compare to the changes in field of view between a 24 and a 27 in full frame, which is quite noticeable, although in 16mm it's just a 1mm difference in focal length.

Robin Phillips · July 13, 2022

the difference between a 6mm, 8mm, and 9.5mm is actually pretty noticeable. I think if you're trying to rent then you probably want more or less a full set - so a wide along with the 12, a 16 or 18 (U16s only came in 18, but you can substitute a normal 16mm ultraprime if you want that focal length), and you probably want the 25 or 35 (be it panther, elite, or u16) and a 50. TBH I think its also totally reasonable if you're a zeiss guy to mix or substitute in 35mm format lenses for the longer end of your set. Also the LWZ.2 zoom lens also is sharp enough for S16, and gives you a range of 15.5-45 at t2.6 with the xp (master prime) coating and has basically no breathing.

That all being said, given how expensive these can be and how long it can take to find a set (especially of ultra16s) you might consider doing what I did, which was just hunting down the lenses you specifically want for your own use first, followed by ones to round out the set when stuff became available and if you had the cash handy.

If it helps at all, I lean almost exclusively on my 8mm, 18mm, and 35mm U16s, with my 6 and 12 being in reserve/part of the rental kit. But given the option on a larger project, I'd actually prefer to use an 8mm U16, a 16mm master prime, and a 40mm master prime.

Raymond Zrike · July 14, 2022

7 hours ago, Robin Phillips said:

lean almost exclusively on my 8mm, 18mm, and 35mm U16s, with my 6 and 12 being in reserve/part of the rental kit. But given the option on a larger project, I'd actually prefer to use an 8mm U16, a 16mm master prime, and a 40mm master prime.

So you would be fine with a 6mm, 9.5mm, 16/18mm, and a 35mm on most projects? That’s what I’m most likely going to end up with. For my projects, that’ll be completely sufficient, but I’m wondering if the lack of 12mm would turn off a ton of people from renting the set.

Also, semi-unrelated, but are you saying you’d pick a 16mm master prime over an 14/18mm Ultra 16? Is that just because you typically prefer the 16mm focal length? I’d expect them to be optically pretty similar on super-16.

Definitely been looking at an LWZ.2 as an option, though I already have a similar zoom that I use on super 16 (a DigiZoom 6-24mm T1.9 with an Abakus B4 to PL adapter; turns into an 8-32mm T2.5), so I think it’d end up a little redundant. Thought it would certainly be nice to have such a high quality super-35 zoom anyway!

Edited July 14, 2022 by Raymond Zrike

Robin Phillips · July 14, 2022

The master primes are all sharp enough for s16 work, and substitute for U16s no problem resolution wise. the 14mm U16 I specifically avoided cause its kinda a weird focal length. It more or less looks like a 29.4mm would on s35. The 18 works out to something like a 37.5mm equivalent, but definitely feels closer to a 40mm. My personal preference for a 16mm focal length is just cause that one works out to looking like a 33mm in s35 terms, and just "feels" better to me as a medium/normal shot lens.

You may not need a 6mm in your kit, but its nice to have. The U16 has surprisingly straight lines. the Century has more character but cuts pretty well with the ziess superspeeds. I got the 12mm for my kit in part to round it out as a rental, but also in part to have a sharp lens in the wider range that I wouldnt be too upset about if something happened to it (say for a stunt or otherwise). There are effectively no spare parts for the U16s, so you need to be aware of that and basically price in master primes as their replacements when it comes to insurance.

Im not sure I needed the 12 to round out my kit, as I've often had people telling me they only want to rent the 8, 18, and 35. Take from that what you will.

Robert Hart · July 15, 2022

They may be a bit out of your league pricewise but on a shoot with the SI2K some years back a set of Zeiss CP2 compact primes for 35mm cameras used on a second camera yielded a sharpness and contrast comparable with dedicated Super16mm lenses I had on the main camera.

The Optika Elite Super16mm lens range also included an 85mm T1.4. Finding a used one for sale may be a challenge.