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Camera for High Speed/Low Light


Chris Barker

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Hello,

I have some documentaries in development that will mainly be shot at 120fps (often on a Steadicam) and need a new camera for this.

As well as high speed, I need something that will work well in available light, often with little of it (not that I need night vision or something unnatural…I generally only shoot around golden hour to twilight, and often in fairly dark interiors), and provides a clean look.

I previously used a RED DSMC (and would like to use RED footage from my archive in new projects, ideally), so have been thinking of getting a Gemini. I am conflicted about maybe going with Arri though (primarily as they are much cheaper used). I definitely want a cinematic look, so am not that interested in models outside of cinema cameras, though am open to suggestions if I have misjudged these.

Thanks!

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What's your finishing resolution and what's your budget?  The Alexa mini can be pushed quite far if you're happy with a 2k finish.  Might also be worth looking at the Venice since it has a 2nd higher gain option that could help exposing for 120fps.

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What's your final deliverable?

Does it have to be 12-bit? RAW? What resolution?

A good option without breaking the bank is the FX9. 

A 'cheap Alexa is a heavy Alexa. I know many operators that even though they're sled, horizon stabiliser all that kit will take the weight of an XT generally prefer a mini or mini LF. 

Re colour matching. I've done a show matching a Gemini, Helium, EPIC Dragon, Venice, Mini LF and FX6. Most contemporary cameras have enough latitude to match with ease. I'll note - the nuance of the Venice and Mini LF in terms of highlight roll-off etc do show when cutting side by side with the FX6 in coverage but then if that nuance is even visible in the final deliverable depends on the final deliverable. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/18/2022 at 7:12 PM, Gabriel Devereux said:

What's your final deliverable?

Does it have to be 12-bit? RAW? What resolution?

A good option without breaking the bank is the FX9. 

A 'cheap Alexa is a heavy Alexa. I know many operators that even though they're sled, horizon stabiliser all that kit will take the weight of an XT generally prefer a mini or mini LF. 

Re colour matching. I've done a show matching a Gemini, Helium, EPIC Dragon, Venice, Mini LF and FX6. Most contemporary cameras have enough latitude to match with ease. I'll note - the nuance of the Venice and Mini LF in terms of highlight roll-off etc do show when cutting side by side with the FX6 in coverage but then if that nuance is even visible in the final deliverable depends on the final deliverable. 

 

On 7/18/2022 at 12:02 PM, Dan Finlayson said:

What's your finishing resolution and what's your budget?  The Alexa mini can be pushed quite far if you're happy with a 2k finish.  Might also be worth looking at the Venice since it has a 2nd higher gain option that could help exposing for 120fps.

 

Thanks very much for the responses (and apologies for the delay in response).

4K would be optimal, though I'm guessing 2K will suffice (I'm independent director/producer and don't have distribution or external requirements on deliverables set up before production).

My budget can extend to what the projects need, within reason (the ceiling is probably around $10K).

My gut feeling is to go for the Gemini, though it's difficult to spend so much more on one than a used Arri. I'm guessing the other RED models might have issues with the low light/high speed requirements.

I often operate as a one man unit, so the extra weight of a cheaper Arri could be an issue on some shoots.

In regards to matching RED/Arri footage, is it just a matter of latitude and colour (the former probably being not that noticeable, and the latter easy to match)? Would the overall style/feel of the footage not be noticeably different?

Many thanks

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I feel like any Arri cameras other than the minis/35 are going to be very limiting for you in terms of low light - not to mention the sheer weight. Even on the Alexa mini you're hard pressed for resolution to get high frame rates, and while they perform well in low light, thats not quite what they're built for. 

The gemini was originally made for the SpaceX launches, so low light is their bread and butter, while also being light weight and affordable. The dual iso is really useful. Additionally, high speed has always been a strength of RED in my opinion, having options like 480 frames down at 2k on some cameras. 

Now, anytime you're buying an older DSMC camera it feels like a ticking time bomb in terms of shelf life, obviously some exceptional cases are there of some epic MXs still surviving, but the real measure is that RED will begin refusing service of older cameras, making them paper weights. Not a big deal, but something to keep in mind as an investment. I'm sure the prices on these are a good deal right now.

In terms of matching, really anything shot with proper exposure, a chip chart, and a good colorist can be matched.

Doesn't fully contend with the Gemini, but the BMD pocket 6k is exceptional in low light, and I love their new color science. However, your 120 fps will be at 2.8k. Maybe a budget option.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/1/2022 at 3:45 AM, Chris Barker said:

 

 

Thanks very much for the responses (and apologies for the delay in response).

4K would be optimal, though I'm guessing 2K will suffice (I'm independent director/producer and don't have distribution or external requirements on deliverables set up before production).

My budget can extend to what the projects need, within reason (the ceiling is probably around $10K).

My gut feeling is to go for the Gemini, though it's difficult to spend so much more on one than a used Arri. I'm guessing the other RED models might have issues with the low light/high speed requirements.

I often operate as a one man unit, so the extra weight of a cheaper Arri could be an issue on some shoots.

In regards to matching RED/Arri footage, is it just a matter of latitude and colour (the former probably being not that noticeable, and the latter easy to match)? Would the overall style/feel of the footage not be noticeably different?

Many thanks

What arris are you looking at that are significantly cheaper than a Red Gemini?

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