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Huh - Orwo announces new cine stock...but it's C-41. I guess that explains their TLD.


Dennis Toeppen

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Exactly. I think Dwayne's has a C-41 line, but I don't know how it's set up. Their Kodachrome processor had 1000' or 2000' input and output reels. If their C-41 line is similar, I guess they could use it to process cine. I sort of assume that most C-41 lines are set up for very small batches. But I don't really know for sure.

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11 hours ago, Dan Finlayson said:

The page you linked doesn't say that it's natively C-41 - just that the example photos were processed that way.  Have you seen it confirmed elsewhere that it's a C-41 stock?

Here

https://www.orwo.wtf/blog/an-update-wolfen-photo-shipping-new-samples-and-colour-cine-release

NC500. Intended for C41 but can be processed ECN2 with a change of contrast. No remjet.

Reading between the lines implies it's made in China and only packed in Wolfen.

Edited by Mark Dunn
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The whole ORWO story has been very shady since the new owner took over. In the past ORWO made great BW Films for motion Picture use they made 2 different Camera Negative Films,  2 different Intermediate Films, Sound track recording films and positive films for release prints all of these films were available in 16 and 35mm formats  and reasonably priced. 

  Attached is their 2020 price and product sheet 

So what the word is from reliable sources, is that the new owner fired all of the ORWO technicians who worked and knew how to make these fine b/w film stocks so none of the stock on the pdf I attached here are no longer available. So now their only focus is on some Color negative film that is designed for stills and to be processed in C41 Bath. This Film has no REMJET backing which is important if it is going to be used as a motion picture film  so why would any producer risk shooting a feature on this film? 

2020 ORWO Price Sheet - Sheet1.pdf

Edited by John Rizzo
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Looks like they're just going to be making a still film for now. I can't imagine them being able to make the quantities at the consistency level for motion picture film in color. Remember, they are not a one stop shop. They use other manufacturers to provide the finished product and coating. Nothing like Kodak and in the middle of a crazy time in the EU. 

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20 hours ago, Mark Dunn said:

NC500. Intended for C41 but can be processed ECN2 with a change of contrast. No remjet.

Super curious how this looks in motion.  Maybe they've overcome the need for remjet to some extent?  People's tolerance for halation is certainly higher these days than it once was (I can't stand cinestill 800 but people love it).  So maybe they think there's a market for a stock with more imperfection than what kodak is offering.

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On 10/21/2022 at 6:48 AM, Tyler Purcell said:

Looks like they're just going to be making a still film for now. I can't imagine them being able to make the quantities at the consistency level for motion picture film in color. Remember, they are not a one stop shop. They use other manufacturers to provide the finished product and coating. Nothing like Kodak and in the middle of a crazy time in the EU. 

It is very difficult to coat consistently over kilometres of film base. Any variation in the supply and layers will cause density and grain variations across a roll.

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16 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Exactly 

As well as any vibrations.

Eastman Kodak plant has the two emulsion cascade coating heads (more like blades) standing on their own support pedestals that go straight into bedrock, independent from the rest of the factory.

That way ripples through the factory won't case problems in forming and laying down the layers of emulsion.

It's a kind of magic most take for granted but the amount of engineering and expense that went into the current coating line is monumental. 

And basically all eggs with colour cine film are in one basket, scary to think about. One fire could destroy over a century of work and I don't know if Kodak would be able to muster the funds for repairs/rebuild.

Edited by Niels kakelveld
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6 hours ago, Niels kakelveld said:

And basically all eggs with colour cine film are in one basket, scary to think about. One fire could destroy over a century of work and I don't know if Kodak would be able to muster the funds for repairs/rebuild.

Yea no kidding. I bet they have very good fire suppression and lots of insurance. 

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Just because it doesn't have remjet doesn't mean it doesn't have an anti-halation backing -- other C-41 color still films do, motion picture b&w negative also doesn't use remjet. Not sure how non-remjet anti-halation backings work in terms of processing and whether C-41 vs. ECN-2 matters.

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With some of these boutique stocks, I wonder sometimes what's the point IF the look can be created in color-correction later.  Agfa had that brown & teal pastel pallet with a very low contrast in the highlights, but I wonder if shooting Portra 400, for example, could give you the same look with some color-correction (I'm talking about still photography here.)

Having a lot of MP stocks with different looks mattered more when we were printing and projecting them in film.

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Because it is fun to try new and weird things!

I could shoot digital and after many hours of editing achieve a look close to analog, cheaper too. But why spend all that time editing while I could be walking around in a pretty field in a saturday evening getting some awesome shots?

And the act of shooting analog photos/motion picture is much more rewarding and enjoyable than digital.

Digital fatigue is why so many younger people also shoot analog!

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The summer Orwo announcements are exciting,  hopefully something could happen soon.  I see they were delayed in getting stills film out because of covid in China.   It goes without saying there's a need for more motion picture stocks in all formats, and let's hope they can make prices attractive ?

I'd think C41 film would be easier to process at home too.

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On 11/8/2022 at 10:31 AM, Niels kakelveld said:

Because it is fun to try new and weird things!

I could shoot digital and after many hours of editing achieve a look close to analog, cheaper too. But why spend all that time editing while I could be walking around in a pretty field in a saturday evening getting some awesome shots?

And the act of shooting analog photos/motion picture is much more rewarding and enjoyable than digital.

Digital fatigue is why so many younger people also shoot analog!

I meant that you probably create a similar look by shooting Kodak Portra 400 using digital color-correction tools. But I’m curious to try the new stock too for stills, don’t get me wrong.

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I wonder if there might be a revival of the sort of minilabs we used to see all over the place in shopping centres and pharmacies as side hustles for small businesses. They are probably most in landfills or recycled by now. Being able to locally process 16mm film would be a bonus if a minilab could be modified to run 16mm film through. The downside of course would become quality control. The chemicals must be maintained. Stills film I had processed in some third-world minilabs was not all that impressive. 

Edited by Robert Hart
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