Jim Jannard

Greg... thanks for the help. We are buried getting ready. Not much spare time. Many of your questions will be answered at IBC and on our website on Sept. 8. But not all of them. We have chosen to be an open book in development. That is the good news for us because we have received some valuable input. Bad news is that the expectation is, in many cases, that we should have all the answers and share them. We aren't done yet. But showing 4k footage and a brand new set of prototypes should show that we can, and will, make it. The workflow will be discussed as will the changes in the camera, cages and other accessories. Biggest news is the footage.

Thanks for your patience.

Jim

We have a pretty big announcement at IBC regarding our workflow.

Jim

Daniel,

Thanks for the input. Most lens companies won't give details of their product. As mentioned before, everything has changed from what is now posted on our website to what will be posted on the 8th. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. We agree that making our program compatible with Arri is a good thing. This is a digital cinema camera. It will be built much more like a film camera than most eng camers available now. No optical finder for our first camera. We will have a very high resloution EVF as an option.

Jim

Our 4K footage will speak for itself at IBC. We asked for input. That's it. The boards have a mind of their own.

Jim

Shannon... I've always liked you. It is pretty frustrating. But at the end of the day we are putting out a product that many find revolutionary. Those that don't want it or need it don't have to buy it. It is a surprise though that some spend so much time trying to tell me that I'm making a mistake with this project. When we 1st announced in Dec., it was a "scam". Then, it turned into "there is no way you can do what the other BIG companies can't. Now, as we are ready to show 4k footage, it seems to be a film vs. digital battle. At each stage it seems to be a new set of board adversaries.

What I really hoped from this board was to get constructive input. Suggestions. Ideas. Most complain that the BIG companies don't listen. We are. But we have to sift through the noise.

Thanks to those who have made suggestions with good intent. You will see quite a different program because of it in a few days.

One last thing. 8 months ago there was no RED camera company. No finished sensor design. Everything you will see on Sept. 8th is 8 months of work. That in itself is quite remarkable IMHO.

Jim

Funny, the technical department at Warner Bros. told me last week that the best they can measure from 3 perf S35mm is 3.2K.

Jim

The sports, action sports and wildlife group are the ones that are ordering the lens. The intersting thing is that you get 4k stills along with the video.

Jim

Actually the version on the RED webpage with the "Cage One" on it looks real practical to me. With no need for magazines on top/back, external motors, etc. the packaging looks pretty sensible to me.

 

Jim,

 

Just out of curiosity, is the backfocus distance standard? It isn't explicitly stated that one can use standard PL lenses on a RED. I'd love to get an Arri standard mount to PL adapter and see what one of my Cooke Speed Panchro II's and III's would look like shooting with a RED. With the RED's specs one should get that nice, old school look - using bleeding edge technology!

We have a pretty innovative way to accommodate a number of mounts with the master mount preset at the factory with tolerances of less than .001.

The cages shown on the website amount to "sketches" we did a few months ago. I think you will be quite surprised at the changes made since then. The one thing we are doing different than others is exposing our development so that we can respond to feedback from the users. We are listening. Except to those who think we shouldn't be doing the project.

Jim

We have stated several times that we know the 300mm is an odd choice for the 1st lens to be released, but it was the 1st one done. Please get a bit more informed before you trash us. We have a zoom that will be announced at IBC and several other lenses on the board. We have also stated that what we are showing on our website will change. Look for the new body and cage system on our website as IBC opens. BTW, we have many reservations for the 300mm lens. Must be a lot of wildlife shooters out there.

Jim

You'll notice Jim the name of this forum is cinematography.com. Why are you here?

Richard, I re-read my post (after reading yours) and can see that it might be taken differently than I meant. What I meant was why post in the HD Only section of this board, not this site in general. I was genuinely curious. As to why I am posting on the HD Only section of Cinematography.com... it seemed better than posting on the 35mm section. :-)

I mean no disrespect. If it sounds like it, I apologize.

My best,

Jim

But this is where you seem unable to see the point many of us make on this board. Even once all of the above conditions are met, and I think they are right now with the new generation of top end HD cameras, people will still choose film over video. For me it's not about cost at all, like I said I won't use one of your cameras if they are free and generate an image that is "amazing."

 

I want to use an image capture medium that is a chemical reaction, not an electronic one.

Richard... I am curious. You are saying that no matter what you will shoot film. Why are you spending time on an HD forum?

Jim

But this is where you seem unable to see the point many of us make on this board. Even once all of the above conditions are met, and I think they are right now with the new generation of top end HD cameras, people will still choose film over video. For me it's not about cost at all, like I said I won't use one of your cameras if they are free and generate an image that is "amazing."

 

I want to use an image capture medium that is a chemical reaction, not an electronic one.

You absolutely have the right to shoot film. So does everyone else. But my bet is that there are many more who will not shoot film given a real alternative. I heard your exact statement in the still world five years ago. Purists. Now, it is difficult, make that nearly impossible, to find a top still pro who shoots only film.

I disagree on one point. As of now, we don't see an acceptable alternative to film in the motion picture market. That's what we are trying to do. Nothing more.

Jim

David,

I agree on all points. Digital is NOT film. When it gets to the point where it is as sharp, the color is as good and it "feels" right, then, and only then, will it be a reasonable consideration to replace film as a primary capture medium. Until now, it has fallen short somewhere. But the day will come when it won't fall short and all its cost and time advantages kick in.

Jim

RAW if great to extract color and contrast information but not so great for extracting increased resolution. If something is shot at 1K RAW it will never equal something shot at 4K RAW.

 

:)

That's why you need to start with almost 5k. :-)

Jim

I had a meeting with a smart Hollywood exec. that said they had done several tests of 3 perf S35 film and the resolution was about 3.2K.

Jim

And the only way that digital can maintain that metaphor is if footage is shot RAW.

Jim

I think we all recognize that "drives" are a stop-gap to a better solution (holographic?). Both film and data have storage issues. My bet is that the data issue will be solved more quickly than the film issue. Truth is, not many of us will have film or data that is important 100 years from now. But it is worth thinking about.

Jim

Jim,

 

One thing I've always wondered is what drives some one like you?

 

What makes you want to do this?

 

Thanks

R,

 

PS: I'm a film die hard and will never use one of your cameras even if they're free. But I'd still like to hear your thoughts. You have to give me some points for honesty at least :D

Never say never. Unless you really like the idea of spending a ton of money on film, processing and turning it into data in the end. The missing link to a data camera is the soul. That was my quest. I have been shooting for 30 years, collecting for 20. I LOVE cameras and the art. I'm (self-proclaimed) an inventor and engineer, designer and visualist. I'm not saying how good I am at these, I'm saying what drives me and where my passion lies. We have all the tools to get this project done. And it is a worthy cause. I love a good challenge. Just tell me what can't be done.

8 months ago I said we would do this. At IBC we will show that we are on the road and we can make it.

Life is short. Do great things. Let the skeptics be the fuel to drive you. Do something you love.

That's it.

Jim

We had a 4k screening at one of the major studios on Friday. I asked the question, "if film is a 10 in resolution, color and soul, what is this footage?". The answer was "9.985". I guess we still have some work to do. But not too bad for 8 months and our 1st footage. The studio is pretty well known and just aired a "super" movie shot digital.

Jim

One thing to consider... our sensor (which we proudly call Mysterium) is NOT like all the others, as has been assumed.

Jim

No working camera at IBC. Our breadboard would be laughed at. And we are very sensitive. 1st camera assembly (in our box) is December. Production early 2007.

Jim

We will show 4k footage at IBC on a 4K projector in the theater and 2k in our booth. I can't wait.

Jim

We recognize that we need to provide solutions from the highest end (RAW 4.5K) down to 30Mbs recorded on board. We have our hands full. But we knew that going in.

Jim

There are several lower data rate options... 2K, 1080P, 720P, compression schemes, etc. But with the ability to maintain 35mm DOF.

Jim

I'm not surprised they are showing footage, not a live image -- it's a 4K (or 4.9K) Bayered-filtered image so it has to be processed, and I suspect that the real-time processor is the next step in development, so for now, the footage they shoot has to be processed & rendered by some computer before it can be viewed. Plus it has to be scaled to whatever system they are showing it on, such as the 4K Sony projector.

David is exactly right. As a reminder, we pulled the trigger on this project in Dec. 2005 (8 months ago). In that time we finalized the sensor design, began prototyping a body and system, began board designs, received the 1st sensors, built a platform to test the sensors, developed a test platform to shoot the footage we have now (last week until this Sat.) and then have to get the footage processed and ready for a projector we have never seen. I guess fast-track is an understatement.

We are either brave or foolish. We'll see at IBC. Then the real work begins.

Jim

I'll refrain from commenting further about Mr. Murdoch. We have a lot better things to do.

Jim

Oh all right congratulations

RED did not write anything. Mike Curtis did. He was there when we brought the sensor up in the newest board.

"We" have said all along that we expected to show 4K footage in the fall. IBC is in the fall. We are still hoping we can display footage there. If not, shortly after. That's all.

Jim