Douglas Hunter

"I actually wanted to hear the negatives when I posted the question." Well, I did a 2 camera shoot with the Canon 7Ds a while back and I am editing the footage now. I am very much a film snob, but I admit that in some situations the aesthetic qualities of the CMOS DSLR image are wonderful. Here are some negs. 1) If you hadn't already guessed the on-board LCD can't be used for precise focusing and the Canons don't have continuous autofocus in video mode(if you need that). 2) We found that the cameras would sometimes just cut off in the middle of a take for no reason. 3) The look is a bit inconsistent, some shots look like beautiful 24p HD, while others have a more muddy/flat SD 29.97 look to them, and yes our settings were always the same. Its just that the camera is not forgiving in the same way film is. It loves some light and hates other light and it will make you pay for this is a way that film tends not to. Also note that the amount of video noise can end up being significant even in situations when you think it shouldn't. 4) In post transcoding is a pain, and there is not very much color information in the signal, granted this is a problem on all prosumer digital video, just know that it will stick with you on this camera. 5) The image takes color correction pretty well, I am pleased with what can be done but was hoping for more. 6) Also note that if you are working in FCP for multicam work you must transcode all your dailies if you want to use the multiclip feature inFCP. As an aside we also shot dual system sound, and it turns out that you can't use .WAV files in multiclip mode. You need to marry the audio to some sort of video such as text prior to including it in multiclips. This is not in the FCP manuals but no one I have asked to test it can make it work with .WAV files. A couple of positives: I was shooting rock climbing and I have to say the texture of rock tends to look very strange on most video formats, the DSLRs, for what ever reason, do a far far better job of rendering the texture of rock than any other format I have used including 35mm stills, and super 16 (even with good glass). Let me also add that despite the negatives listed above I still really like the 5D and would use it again now that I have an understanding of how it works, what it likes and doesn't like. I am also drawn to the Nikon D700 for its continuous autofocus in video mode which I don't like to rely on but is really helpful when shooting while hanging in a harness tracking a climber in tight shots. I think if you bring the mindset and precision that you use when shooting film to a DSLR shoot you will find ways to get the results you want, but I would also suggest doing more testing that you might normally do.

Shane, You might want to do a little more reading up on how to shoot sync. But to answer your direct questions, Most DJ mixing boards will have some sort of line out: either XLR or stereo plug that you would then be able to route to your recording device. As for what kind of sound recorder to use, if you are editing in an NLE the best thing to do is to get a field recorded that records to flash memory. I use the Marantz 660 device and it works very well. With any flash device getting your audio into your NLE is a "drag and drop" operation since the recording format is .wav or mp3 files. If you record to DAT you would need to capture your audio in real time. Honestly DAT is pretty outdated at this point anyway. Something else you will want to consider is longer takes. 15 second takes of a toast or speech seem pretty worthless. When shooting sync you will probably find that you start looking for performance more than you do when shooting MOS. To get performance, to capture the brief moments when people are at their best, you just gotta have longer takes. Sure some camera ops are really good at anticipating when that moment is about to happen but not always, and its still really easy to miss an important opening etc. The big problem you will have is that you will most likely NOT be able to slate your shots so you are doing wild sync. This can be pretty difficult. Assume that your camera will drift about 1%-2% (if its well maintained and in good condition) over the course of a take. You need to have some sort of good hard effects in the shot to see sync. The "easy" way around this is to shoot CUs of the speakers so you can really see their lips moving and find sync on strong lip movements such as the letter "P". when you have found some of those sync points then you can get an idea of how much drift you have and how much you will need to adjust picture to match audio. good luck.

Steve, Congrats. The film is clearly doing well!! But I am a bit peeved that you didn't tell me it was screening in LA! I would have been there in a heart beat. How about a trailer on the website?

I am pretty sure that Gillies has a an S8 dof calc. on Super8,org. Its a wigit for the mac OS so I don't know if that will cross over to an ipod.

Keep in mind that for the examples you give doing such things in post is going to be more expensive. Next, in the professional world of features and TV, studio execs. are looking at dailies and want them to look really good. If the dailies are unfinished or don't look good then the phone will ring and the "should we fire the DP?" conversation may happen between the studio and the EPs. Then you also want to consider that the DP is not always around for the post process, and in some cases they are not welcome. So any work slated to be done in post, can be, and often is, done by someone other than the DP. There are some things that are better to do in post but it depends on what you want. From my experience in the realm of TV the DP is always better off crafting as much of the look as they can on set. It saves money in the long run and keeps everyone happy along the way.

You've got it backwards its not that people in the industry think they are "above" the courses, its that they know students are "below" practical experience (and they are right). I take issue with english lit not being #1. There has been a HUGE glut of English PHD's in the US for 2 decades now!!! What is sad is that many of the majors on the list (philosophy, English, Art History ) are those that require critical thinking skills. But thinking doesn't make you any money right?

Jake recommended the Weston books and I second that, they are good resources, I also like Bruce Block's "The Visual Story" it's a very strong guide to learning to control the visual elements of film and video. He shows you the visual tools but its up to you to apply them. For learning standard coverage there is a book called "Grammar of the film language" Its not a great book but if you want a quick start guide to the standard ways of covering different situations with different numbers of actors in different situations it does provide the basics. What books to recommend really depends upon what kind of director you are wanting to be. If you just want to direct hollywood type film and TV then closely watching TV and films is a very good education, if you are observing the right elements. What you miss in viewing (and in all the books) are all the nuances that you can only really see in the editing bay. What I mean by this is all the small distinctions that make the difference between the shots that get on air and those that do not, including performance, framing / type of shot, camera moves, etc. etc. etc. Each type of show has different "rules" that are not really in the books on directing, but they are writ large in the network notes!

1) When using CT your dailies should have both a time code and key code window burn. 2) It is not advised to go right from a CT cut list to a neg. cut. Conforming a work print is a REALLY good idea! I can't tell you have many times people find errors in their databases!

Just noticed this thread today and saw the above statement. What's funny about this is that almost every TV show out there breaks the 180 degree rule here and there. Every TV production I've worked on crosses the line here and there. The thing is, if the geography of the scene is well established crossing the line is actually not all that jarring. I'm not advocating that people cross the line but it happens all the time in TV work. When it comes down to it, the priority is for the best performance at any given moment and if that means a line jump many people will go for it. The problem comes when you cross the line in a jarring way on a not very dramatic moment, then it really stands out adding emphasis to a moment that should not have it. Jumping the line on an intense dramatic moment can add to the tension of the scene in some cases. There is also an example from Tarkovsky's film Stalker, in the scene after they get out of the "meat grinder" when they are sitting in the room with all the piles of dust. There are 2 (I think its 2, could be only one) huge line jumps in the scene that I believe to be unintentional (it hard to believe that the scene was shot this way intentionally with a shot reverse shot pattern in mind. it really looks like they were just working with what they had.) but that work great to help the sense of unease and the strangeness of the place they are in.

That particular E-bay seller ALWAYS list items at 2 - 3 times the going rate. The 5008s is a good camera because of the C-mount lenses and it has pretty good registration for a super 8 camera. The prices in the super 8 world all a mess right now. Keep in mind that what ever you purchase, you will most likely want to invest a $200 - $300 for a clean and lube and minor repairs. Good Luck.

I assume they did it in telecine. There may have been more to it but telecine was part of it. I thought the footage looked wonderful too. The video on the internet does not give the full effect. Seeing it on an HD monitor was great. Too bad I don't like snoop Dog.

I was in the lobby at Encore the other day and by chance saw the oddest thing. A country music video made by Snoop Dog and Willie Nelson. It featured 200T and Tri-X among other super 8 stocks. As totally bizarre as this sounds I am not making it up: http://videos.onsmash.com/v/iEbvY2Y2Kj8EmZvJ

I've done a number of micro budget docs on film and video. Brian is on the right track, you need to consider all the variables prior to making a camera decision. 1) The full workflow from production to final delivery. If its not being produced for a specific outlet then he needs a work flow and acquisition methodology that translates well into various different formats such as festivals, network, cable, internet etc. 2) The aesthetics that the director wants to achieve with the project. even Run-N-gun shoots should look like something! 3) Pragmatics of the shooting schedule. How many days of shooting extended over how much total time. 4) The entire budget, not just the camera department's budget. On micro budget projects the financial demands of every aspect of production compete with all the others. For micro budget projects buying a camera may or may not be a good idea. It's possible for the camera purchase to cost significantly more than a rental would there by robbing other departments of funding they could have really used. Consider that its often the case that low budget shoots need a lot of post work on both the image and the audio due to the shooting conditions. terrible lighting, off-mic dialogue, poor camera work, etc you name it.

Exactly the "buy it now prices" have been fairly stable but a lot of those auctions end with no bids, and the auctions that do get bids tend to sell at fairly low prices. Yesterday there were 5 rex-5s on ebay all with no bids. The obvious reason may be that folks with 3,000 or under to spend on a camera are buying Eclairs or other lower cost sync cameras, as you mentioned, or HDV video cameras.

Honestly I am not trying to be discouraging, I promise. But I've been watching the 16mm and super 8mm markets for a while. Most cameras seem to be to be dropping a good bit (there are exceptions!). For me its good news because I am currently in the position of buyer!

It might be fair, but I am not sure that the market will support that kind of number for an MOS camera these days. The prices for 16mm cameras have been dropping a good deal over the past year. If we are not there now I think we may soon be at a place where many 16mm owners end up selling their cameras for a lot less than they are actually worth or just holding on to them.

Considering the current environment in terms of high camera prices and online sales being so common these days. I was thinking that it might be a good idea if we pooled our collective knowledge of various cameras and their common problems so that others may have an idea if what to look for / questions to ask about the gear they are considering buying. Beaulieu 5008S common problems: - Dead batteries. - Fungus / mildew on elements deeper in the lens. - Gears in the zoom system get out of alignment, so camera does not zoom smoothly or continuously. - The camera is rather loud which one might not expect considering that it is equipped for audio recording. - Dead photo cell. - Loose handle. - Lack of basic maintenance such as lube and cleaning. - Because of the camera's reputation the prices being asked are often very high, its not hard to find ebay sellers asking $600 - $900 for this camera. Positives -Its more like a professional camera than most other super 8 cameras in that it does not have a lot of extra features that you don't need / won't use. - The c mount saves the fact the the lens it comes with can go bad. I have used my 5008s with all sorts of different lenses and the results have been very good. -All metal body is durable. - You can still get these cameras serviced by a few different people around the country. - The viewing system does not use a prism in the light path, it has a mirrored shutter so you are not robbing the film of any light. - If the lens is clean, it is a very good lens, wonderful smooth zooms at variable speeds. - The lens is also a Macro lens. that allows for continuous moves from Macro to normal range. Canon 814xl-s / 1014 xl-s Common problems: - Batteries left in the battery compartment leak. - Foam around door flakes off and can get into film chamber (common on other cameras too.) - Film footage counter does not advance properly. - Intervelometer does not function properly at all speeds. - Since this camera has a lot of electronics there is a lot that can go wrong and an ebay seller who claims their camera is in perfect working order may not really have tested ALL the electronics. - Both exposure modes may not work. I've seen one where the internal exposure meter worked but it was not possible to set the exposure manually. - My 814 gets a blue smear in the frame when shooting bright scenes. No, its not a lens flair, its a smear. I am told that this is a known problem with these lenses, in that as they age there is some separation of the lens elements that causes this problem. Positives: - Easy to focus. - well balanced and light weight in the hands. - Macro lens. - Runs at close to constant speed. - its a very sturdy camera. - Can be maintained by a number of folks in the U.S. - These are fairly quiet camera, not quiet enough for intimate interior work but still far quieter than other cameras. - If the electronics are in good shape then you have a flexible camera that can handle a number of different tasks. Price: Currently these are the most expensive cameras out there. Even in perfect working order are they really worth more than $500. I would say they are not. But even if people disagree about a proper price for these cameras, they are fairly common and often do have electronic problems that the sellers are unaware of so think long and hard before paying top dollar for one. I think a reasonable price for an 814xl-s is in the $200 - $350 price range and maybe a little more for the 1014 but not much more. O.K. what other cameras or knowledge can folks add?

I want to give props to my Chinon 877 Macro! It was the first motion picture camera I ever purchased and it was a very good purchase. Its not a camera that anyone really talks about very much but it has a lot of wonderful features, it has been very reliable over the years, the glass seems no less sharp than that of other cameras such as my Canon 814xl-s. It can do in camera dissolves and fades, it has a back light compensator, built in ND filter, it can over or under expose by a stop, has an on board Intervelometer, manual and auto exposure, macro lens, easy to focus, etc. The only draw back really is the fixed position hand grip. after owning and using the 814xl-s I can not honestly say that the Canon is clearly a better camera than the 877 macro.

Judging by the ebay market these days there are a number of camera's that are WAAAAAY over rated. I'm stunned by the numbers that sellers think they can get for their cameras. who is dumb enough to pay $800 for a 30 year old camera that the seller doesn't even know if it works properly or not? Come on! There is no super 8 camera in the world worth more than $500 at the very most. Anyway I think the 5008s is over rated for the following reasons. 1) Hard to see focus through the lens, making any racking nearly impossible if you are operating yourself in an on the fly situation. 2) I have seen a few of these and it seems that the gears in the zoom lens going and fungus / mildew deep in the lens are both common problems. 3) Louder than hell. 4) Pull down problems with different film stocks. 5) terrible triggering system. The values in the 5008s are: 1) c mount, for me this is huge, and makes it a real camera rather than a toy. 2) mine has a great battery, very robust! 3) adjustable zoom speed motor on the lens (only matters when the gears and glass are in good shape)

A few bizarre things have been added to this thread in the name of post workflow. I won't address them all but the mention of HDCAM SR is particularly cute. Please understand that the difference to the eye between HDCAM and HDCAM SR is non-existent they are the same thing with two differences. HDCAM SR has 12 channels of audio. HDCAM SR is either 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 color space. These differences do not effect the appearance of the image to the eye. There are a limited number of uses of SR in the professional world. The first is that it was developed for Sony's digital cinema workflow and for VFX work. The second is that networks require it as the final delivery format, not because the picture quality is better but because it has 12 channels of audio so in most cases all the audio for a show can be delivered on a single tape, which is a very handy. Its great to be able to put LT / RT, M&E, and Dolby e or 5.1 all on the same tape, makes life much easier for everyone. The third use of HDCAM SR is really the same as the first in that VFX folks for film and TV like it for compositing and other VFX work. The 4:4:4 color space gives them a little more to work with when doing keys.

This is the big lie that starts many projects. Then you see the problems and realize you are in over your head. Honestly as a post super I just can't recommend the Avid for tapeless work flow unless you are using something like Ikegami's tapeless system which was designed for the Avid. The computers you are using are part of the post formula but there is a lot more to it than that.

Scott, There are two wonderful reversal stocks available from Spectra Film and Video, these being Velvia 50D and the Ektachrome 100D. They both have wonderful color, higher contrast and tight grain. Prices are a lot higher than for k40 though. But the results are great.

Just to piggy back on what Tim mentioned. Your recording device does not need to be crystal controlled if it is digital. All digital recording devices are constant speed because they have a constant sample rate. So as long as your camera is crystal controlled to run at a constant frame rate then any digital recorded will allow you to sync image with sound. I would strongly encourage you to not buy a sony WM D6, it is obsolete technology, and will give you low quality recordings to boot! Go with the recored I mentioned earlier or something of that ilk. If you are editing / finishing on film you can have digital files laid off to mag. Post audio work flows these days are very flexible and there is no technical reason to record audio to tape that I am aware of. If you are doing non-linear editing a digital recorder is the way to go because to get your audio into the system is just a file transfer. On my last shoot we recorded using my Marantz PDM 660 (with an audio Technica 815 shotgun mic) with the Aminima. Everything was perfectly in sync simply using an old fashioned slate without time code, and it also sounded great.

Why do you specifically want a crystal sync unit? If all you need is a constant speed recording device than any digital recorded will do the job and you have many options at prices from $400 up to a few thousand. It just depends on what features you need such as time code, 24 bit recording, etc. The digital recorders have a lot of advantages and the field recorders are so small these days its great. Checkout something like the Fostex FR2LE as a starting point @ about $600. Small, light weight, 2 XLR inputs 24bit broadcast wave files etc.

No Fotokem does not do 8mm. Your choices are Yale film and video, Pro 8mm, and Spectra film and video. There is also a new lab called Cinelicious. I have been using Spectra for a while now and I always get very good service and wonderful processing / telecine there. I also have used Yale on many occasions, also with good results. Much to my regret (and that of others) they have been cutting back on their services. Still a good lab though. Many people have complaints about Pro 8mm and Cinelicious has not been around that long so not many people have used them. I will say that their pricing structure does not entice me to give there telecine a try. here are the links: http://www.spectrafilmandvideo.com http://www.yalefilmandvideo.com http://www.pro8mm.com http://www.cinelicious.tv