Robert Houllahan
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Posts posted by Robert Houllahan
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I did have a couple of questions for Dominic, David or anyone else out there that might know the answers to:
1) Does humidity affect processing and if so how and what can be done to stablize this factor?
Thanks-The Captain B) Next report tomorrow!
I think you will find that Humidity will mostly affect the drying of the film in the drybox and you will need to add or subtract heat in this area to compensate for the humidity factor. You should vent the drybox seperately and don't forget those hepa filters on the intake.
-Rob-
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Hey if your film is short enough and it features something like detergent or it is super cool and nobody can tell what is featured I hear they pay pretty decent for it. :unsure:
-Rob-
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http://www.Spectrafilmandvideo.com/
I don't know anything about current Pro-8mm cartridges, including how they load their cartridges or what super-8 cartridges they use
As far as I know there is only one source for Super8 cartridges (empty or filled) and it is in Rochester, NY. :D
-Rob-
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I've used Monaco for years as I'm in Sacramento and it was easy to drive down to supervise.
A bit of advice as someone who is routinely on both sides of this fence, getting a good relationship together with a colorist/TK house and being able to go in and work with someone is worth an awful lot. There is so much possibility in a Film / Telecine session sometimes getting what you want requires being there.
-Rob-
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Casino Royal used 5222 for all of the beginning b+w. Other than that I cant think of any recent major films that used actual b+w stock.
I have not seen Casino Royale yet but that's cool they used 22 on it. I think that XX22 is a bit of a maligned stock and I know people who do not like it however I disagree with them. I just picture locked a 16mm short I am making which is probably 75% 7222 and 25% 7231 and I am cutting on a steenbeck. XX31 is a very beautiful stock with one of the lowest Dmin's in the catalog, I believe. I think it is very unfortunate that bigger productions who are planning a B+W finish do not go the full route and shoot on B+W instead of XX18 or something and Monochrome it in a DI. A little more brass downstairs with the money men might be needed here . Shindler's List is a great example it is very easy to tell when the few color originated sections show up with the little girl color stock just has that smooth look to it.
-Rob-
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hi!
im not a DP but i use a k3 really a lot. of course you can load the camera in daylight, but try to load in the darkest place you found, like in your car, van or your room. i always load in light and after 3-4 seconds of film runing everything looks fine. the same for unload.
have fun with k3!! play with speed ramps, are really good in this clock work camera.
Gral. Treegan
I am going to second or third or fourth this here , a 100' roll of 16mm stock is not a sacred object and should not be treated as one. Beat it up, try loading your K3 (I have one too.) in Total blazing daylight and try holding that daylight roll up as an offering to the sun for a hot second and load it and enjoy all of the lumpy wumpy burny cakes all in your front and back and middle of the film.
You can load most stocks (it's called a Daylight spool for a reason) in subdued light. Try it in Closets, trunks, dishwashers, blankets, etc. and see clearly what you are doing and load that camera right. Gral said it right run off a few seconds before you want something clean on your film. My advice is just chill dirty it up and laugh about the fact that you are making a better and certainly more interesting pic for (150.00 K3 and 30.00 roll of film) than some su**ker with a $10K Hvx and a dopey looking PS adapter.
The next paragraph pro DP's , Ac's etc. should not read or take an antacid before doing so, Punk SOB or DOB's you'll be fine.
So back a Halloween or so ago (also known as PNY) we here in RI had a bit of a wee party like in a spot called Olneyville (from where my pa is from) and there were like 5 or 600 folks from about the bubble and many natural organic like substances to munchy on and some not organic like too. There were freaks and losers and scum and society types and ghosts and all. My little studio was there in the middle of the mill where all of the goodin's were happening and for some dumb reason which for the life of me I cannot remember I cracked open a precious can of a 1000' of 5218 and had it open an naked like in the midst of the fray. I think it had something to do with my friend's sister who I was trying to impress but I ended up walking around with it through all of the mad mad business and I vaguely remember spinning off a few or fifty feet of the roll and throwing it at the video crew who were desperately trying to shoot the noise band from japan. Well I ended up back in my studio and after she left and the sun started coming up I put the bones and silver on a reel back in the bag and canned it and put it in the fridge.
Well in November sometime I took it with me to work at the lab and spooled it all down onto 100' daylight spools for my eyemo and then my droogies and I went and shot a piece of the film we are making (The Illustrator) in a Soviet era Juliett class submarine here in Providence. We shot with my Aaton Ltr and with my Eyemo with a 25mm eyemax lens and mostly hand cranked but some spring too.
Well we processed the 5218 and the Super16 and they went on a Spirit in NYC and all was fine. Fine! the film looks great and no problems with that roll of 18 that I had soaking up the ghosts in Olneyville.
I am not suggesting that a kind of "flashing" be done on a $200M Hollywood feature (or am I? give me 200M and see what happens) but knowing your medium is an important part of the work and knowing how raw material reacts to raw light is not something theyre going to teach you in school.
-Rob-
BTW this kind of post is why my signature says "filmmaker" before anything else.
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Oh my God!!!
Could that actually happen??? HAS IT actually happened???
I'M SO SORRY SO SORRY SO SORRY!!!
I do not see any likely possibility where you could destroy 100,000 feet of film, unless you happen to be working with a film processor which runs 100k at a time :D This is why you run multiple tests like scratch film, twist leader, sensi's etc. on your processor before you run film which is worthwhile to someone. Mechanical failure of the leader or drive in a old-new setup film processor would be a more pressing area to pay close attention to things like drive shafts/chains and bearings especially submerged ones will all have to be examined and those Tires! lots and lots of tires.
Being mechanically inclined is a necessity but if you are there is no reason why you can not get the mechanics of the machine running smoothly again.
-Rob-
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James Steven Beverley, now that I have read your posts I am more convinced than ever that you are quite, quite mad. ;)
Thank God we have a few people like you around.
Looking forward to reading your further reports. I'm sure you will get something working, and I'm equally sure that you will never run out of problems.
I have to second Dominic here, I am making two pictures right now (a short which I am making a 16mil print with sound and I am cutting it on a flatbed and i am cutting the negative and making the print, an educational like experience) and a feature length film shot mostly in NYC and NJ we are shooting 90 or 100k feet of Super16 and some 35mil with my eyemo and a konvas.
I started working at Cinelab about 4 years ago as my day job we are a small regional lab which has been in business since 1948. I feel lucky to be working with some really great people like Bob Hum who has been running film since the 70's in Boston. Bob keeps our kodak ECN-2 process survey results very right. I don't know how he does it exactly but I am learning.
I thought I was crazy and did not sleep much and all that. We are in a beautiful mill built in 1880 and occupy much of the top floor. Running ECN-2 is possible in mill conditions! We have a good big commercial water heater and I am thinking about the possibility of augmenting this with some solar on our roof. We have a nice digital water temp controller but Bob had run with a 2 handle manual mixer and a temp gauge in the past so your water temp can be controlled without spending 10K or more on hot water.
A densitometer is your best friend and your second best friend is cubes of chemicals from Kodak. I would suggest trying to get into the kodak process control survey which will give you benchmarks to strive for and show you scientifically where you are having problems.
Your third best friend will be a dust free drybox and there are allot of tricks to this a set of large surgical grade hepa filters and a enclosed film takeup wiith a set of large PTR's will give you film which does not necessarily need to be post cleaned.
We do recover enough silver every month to pay for our silver collectors and more!
-Rob-
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There's no advantage to making a dupe neg of a projection-contrast print for telecine -- you're still stuck with the exposure range stored on the print, you can't expand it at that point. You need to make a low-con print or IP off of the original negative. Otherwise, you do what you can with the print in the telecine transfer but expect it to be a little harsh-looking.
I mentioned it because we are making several 16mm print dupes for an archive this week and I made Dvcam transfers from the dupe-negs. I think some telecine equipment like the Cintel I was using has an easier time with negative stock than with print. I was able to get a very nice looking transfer out of the neg, of course a low con master would be better.... One of our guys made a feature length 16mm pic last year and he made a master-positive print (specifically for video xfer) which was amazingly sharp and good looking in transfer.
-rob-
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Yeah there is scratching on the cell side of the film so I might have to get things looked at to find out what is going on... I really don't know exactly what was done to this camera other than that the lens and viewfinder were centred, the gate was widened and the loop formers were removed...
You might want to look at the gate guides on the emulsion side if the rail on the S16 side has not been milled to the S16 dimensions it will likely scratch the emulsion because of the pressure being applied by the pressure plate. The other culprits might be the clip in rollers which hold the film around the center ssprocket.
-Rob-
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Oh excellent, I'll keep an eye out for that Zenitar lens - sounds great! I really hate the distortion on the Peleng but it *could* be useful in some situations...
By the way, the lens / viewfinder on my K3 has been re-centred.
Did they do a full super16 mod to this camera, there seems to be an emulsion mark in the super16 area of the footage. When converting a camera to Super you have to mill all of the surfaces which come into contact with the area of the film just widening the gate will not assure a scratch free negative.
-Rob-
BTW I use my Peleng 8mm lens in a nikon mount on my eyemo, now thats wide! O
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You might want to consider having a duplicate negative made of your print and then transfer that. This is a more expensive method that a straight transfer from the Print but can yield very good results. That said I have seen some very good looking transfers from 35mm print from new modern telecine(s) like the Spirit, DSX, etc.
-Rob-
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Mr Kubrick seemed to like having all or most of his lighting in frame in some scenes of his pictures. Look at the Korova or the cat-womans house and there are tons of exposed practical bulbs in frame or the moonbase board meeting in 2001 with the large lit walls or the ball scenes in Eyes wide shut with the Christmas tree lights.
Rob "my aunt worked for SK on "killers Kiss" Houllahan
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So, don't reuse it all to save quality and to save the masters for the future in case something goes wrong.
Correct? Thanks for the advice.
If you could link me to a place that sells tapes for 3$ for an hour I'd appreciate it, I bought mine from Best Buy for $10 for 2.
Check out edgewisemedia.com they have panasonic minidv's for as little as 2.60 ish per tape in quantity. i would, however, strongly recommend spending that 4 or 5 bucks you are currently spending by getting pro grade tapes which seem to be less prone to dropout which plagues dv when reused (and sometimes when fresh)
-Rob-
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Hi, I also want to transfer 8mm 16 and 18fps to miniDV and edit it on liquid edition. 8mm is only video and no sound. Can liquid acquire single frames by external imput (like sync input)?
I have a liquid silver and I was a beta tester back when it was a Fast product. As far as I know liquid does not have a single frame timelapse style capture tool i.e. to work with a workprinter, etc. Any telecine house using a real telecine (rank, BTS, Spirit, etc.) can transfer to PAL and either do 25fps to 25fps or set the film speed to 24fps and record PAL 25fps. We can do it with our rank turbo with metaspeed servo.
-Rob-
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You shouldn't really ever have the opportunity to compare, so thats a bit of a bold statement. :D The point of doing a DI is to do things you can't do in the lab - for example grading parts of the frame. So there should never be a point when it is possible to compare the two. Besides, modern film makers can't make their mind up without seeing 50 different options, and thats a bit expensive and time consuming in a lab!
It was late I meant to say that a 35mm photochemical finish will beat out 90% of the "Budget" DI work and I bet if you look into everything as a total package the "straight" 35mm job from stock through prints will be pretty even with either a HD or S-16 or esp. 35 with a Di of some flavor (is a Spirit/2k grade to D5-HD, assemble and filmout a DI??) and furthermore just having every possible option does not mean you will do anything competent with them.
That said I have a film we are working on which is 90% S-16 and a good 100,000 feet and the post path is a mess and that is my own fault :angry:
-Rob-
That said I have a film we are working on which is 90% S-16 and a good 100,000 feet and the post path is a mess and that is my own fault :angry:-Rob-
Oh and that is a film I am co-producing and shooting I do not want to give the impression I messed up a Cinelab customers film, just my own. Not that there is anything really wrong with it I just could have made it easier on myself if I had put a little more planning into the post path when I started shooting it.
:angry: :angry:
-Rob-
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Hi,
That said, there's practically nothing you can't do in After Effects or even just a nonlinear editor that you can do in Baselight, but there does come a point where it's such a hassle that it's not really usable in that role.
You can make AE perform primary grades on a 1K proxy (which is what most Baselights work in) on quite modest hardware.
Phil
Phil there are many things that you can do in a color finishing system (scratch to baselight) which you cannot do in a NLE or are ridiculously hampered in a compositing package. I know of no nle system which can do self calibrated color management from scans to final print stock and account for the viewing enviornment in such a way that it will be consistent.
Furthermore all of the color grading systems do work in real time with 2K files and the Baselight will work in real time with 4K files all of these systems will play proxies but if you have a Baselight 8 why would you? esp. if you are working on finishing a 4K project.
-Rob-
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I realize that you're actually praising the product here, but that's a bit like saying that a Boxster lacks some of the more mature performance of a Turbo Carrera - except that the cost differential between Scratch and a Lustre or Baselight is actually greater than that.
So true and a Baselight 8 might qualify for even more exotic car status than a mere porsche. And I have driven both and you can keep the boxter, really.
The fact is that there are really very few markets in the US or elsewhere in which there exists a client base that is willing to pay what it needs to cost to justify the more expensive toolset, given the volume of work. It's understandable that Los Angeles based DI companies may be using Baselight 8's, because in that market, there are large studios that will pay between $300K and $500K for a DI. Those clients, and those kinds of numbers, don't exist anywhere else in the world, with the possible exception of once or twice a year in London. While the volume of work done in DI suites may be growing, the prices being paid for them are shrinking. Cost effectiveness is the name of the game once you set foot outside of the city of Los Angeles. There is practically nothing one can do on a Lustre or a Baslight system that one cannot do on a Scratch system. The differences are primariily in operator convenience (you can also relate this to efficiency) and overall throughput.
While I agree with what you are saying there is market for 2K+ and Pogle products all over the world and a new Davinci or Pogle is certainly in the exotic car price bracket of the Italian variety. Both Assimilate and Filmlight were kind enough to lend us machines to evaluate and I have looked at a Lustre system and taken a look at speed grade as well, the only system I have not yet seen is Film master. My impression as of right now is that the Baselight4 could be a direct replacement for a 2K or Platinum with all of the added benefits of non linear workflow (as could Lustre) where scratch and speed grade could not compete with the rt hardware and the interactivity of the interface. This could easily change in the future as software features are easy to add and computer power grows day by day (along with their consumption of energy) so this market segment is a free running target right now IMO. Also I think that when you compare the cost of a full Spirit suite to a scanner/software suite a northlight or arriscan and a baselight seems relatively cheap :blink: and the quality is miles better.
Besides, the largest part of the cost of a "cost effective" DI is the scanning, recording, negative stock, and print stock - and those items have become such commodities in the eyes of the clients that they're practically given away. So if there is to be a healthy DI business, there must be some area in which a facility can make some money.
Well there is the crux but as a part owner of a lab and a filmmaker working on a feature project I feel I need to look. Furthermore a 35mm photochemical finish will look better than 90% of the DI work out there I really feel that we should not be lowering the bar for quality. Take scanning if it is a commodity what kind of scanner is the price based on, I have seen Northlight scans and Spirit scans and the spirit loses hands down but it is the bench mark right? The same applies in other areas.
Don't take this as a business plan :D because I do not know if we can justify getting into the DI business there are many factors and very heavy weights in this segment.
-Rob-
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I hear a lot about the aforementioned color systems. Why does After Effects never get mentioned? Does it stink? Am I missing something here?
After Effects is a compositor and while it has color correction tools they would feel slow and cumbersome if you were accustomed to using a DaVinci or Pogle (RT hardware, nice interfaces) or the above mentioned software based color tools.
-Rob-
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Assimilate Scratch is used by many facilities worldwide, from large to small. It is used for everything from playback of full resolution files for visual effects purposes to DI conforming to color correction.
We have been looking at software color grading systems and I had a Scratch system here for a while, I thought it was a good stable capable system for 2K and although in my opinion it seems to lack some of the more mature color grading tools found in a Baselight or Lustre it is more than useable and has impressive performance. I would think that a properly calibrated viewing enviornment (esp if you are going back to film) would be a more pressing concern.
I really wish assimilate would find a better name for this product as it matures, what were they thinking? Here let me put your film on this scratch machine! It detracts IMO from what is otherwise a fine product.
-Rob-
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Kodak has a chemical sieve and fungicide available in the catalog a can (they come in a paint can, I do not remember exactly the quantity but it is a fair amount) is available for less than $100.00 this product or some similar dessicant might be a good idea if you cannot control the storage conditions or find another place to store your materials.
-Rob-
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Hi Marty,
I asked AlphaCine Lab about that. While it is true that most everyone has switched to a video work flow, Alpha told me they get about two jobs per week requesting 16mm answer prints. The clients are mostly "experimental filmmakers" and few of them request optical sound tracks.
Our 16mm print and answer print workload is considerably higher than that during the school year, in fact our print machine runs daily for the schools up here in new England. There are schools in Boston who have traditional film programs that, I think, would surprise people even in the industry that they even had a film program, much less one based around the Steenbeck.
Dominic, I was trying (badly) to make some differentiation between what would generally be considered a "release" print (i.e. 1500 35mm prints, etc.) and a 16mm "release" print for the art house circuit. I like the term "show" Print. I should know better as I do work at a lab every day although, unlike my colleagues here, I do not have 30yrs. experience running a lab and if I did I would have practically had to start working in my diapers.. :blink:
Steve I think our pricing for this is similar to Alpha's and your 16mm re-estimate sounds right. We do get quite a few answer prints with optical sound, we send the track out for creation. I think this method will have to at least change to Cyan track in the future as soundtrack developer is not so nice....Maybe making some kind of sync track using the optical sound track and a modified projector which reads cyan and syncs to a digital audio player....
-Rob-
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Hello friends -
I'm a director who has recently moved from the balmy environs of Los Angeles to arctic San Francisco. My garage here is unattached from the house and unheated. That means that the temperature at night is going to drop to 35-45 and during the day will soar to 55-65. Humidity is maybe 70% - 80%.
I think that the humidity will be your biggest problem, where there is water and food there is mold to eat it. Film of various types is food to mold and the glues used to bind the magnetic coatings to the backing on videotape are also tasty to mold. The ideal would be cool and dry but a decent de-humidifier is probably easier and cheaper to install/run than a complete climate control system.
-Rob-
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Contact printinting an I/N ought to be fine. That was standard in ECO days. & reduction prints of 35mm features were B-wind, same as a reversal original or print from a contact printed I/N.
That was convenient for cutting in stock footage.
But the contrast today would be too high.
16mm prints have a double standard when it comes to print wind.
That has more to do with sharpness losses in a continuous contact printer. There really is a resolution limit
in the contact printers of around 50 l/mm.
But not in the optical step printer.
Not to go off topic here but I have recently seen allot of Super-8 optically blown up to 16mm on a JK optical printer and it looked great.
-Rob-
thompson shadow telecine (HD) vs. a single-frame capture rig?
in Super-8
Posted
I think that under most conditions the difference would be night and day. I have seen good looking captures from single frame machines but they are not in the same league as a Telecine system for the following reasons.
1. Framing is arbitrary not necessarily registered by a precision mechanism and not adjustable while running. An example would be when transfering a 400' roll when you go from one 50' section to the next the vertical framing may be slightly different and there is no way to compensate for this in a single frame unit. Also a claw driven mechanism cannot compensate for older shrunken film and may ruin it.
2. The actual camera "head" or pickup is a common video camera and the light source can be anything but uniform. A telecine will have either a CRT with Photomultipliers or a set of very high precision CCD's and a highly uniform light source. Furthermore a great deal of electronics which ensure that the signals generated by whatever pickup system are delivered to the Color-Corrector in their best form.
3. A professional telecine is always attached to a real time uncompressed color corrector which allows the colorist to set a wide range of color settings by frame or have the color settings change by keyframe over transitions or scenes. A Film chain generally has no counter and color correction is usually either done on the fly or after the clip has been captured both are compromises.
4. A telecine suite will produce Uncompressed 10bit 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 with a real 1080by1440 (4:3 Super8) resolution not compressed and with a proper optical system which will actually resolve the full intended resolution.
The proof is in the pictures made try both and see for yourself.
-Rob-