Evangelos Achillopoulos

Hello Paul, thanks... It seems that I must add an LCoS tech in film recorders area, to explain... A VERY demanding European partner has done the test... 4K scope in LaserGraphics with Vision 3 5201 Cam Neg. against 4K scope in Aaton K Kodak 2242 internegative... winner was Lasergraphics and the camera negative... Its like comparing a lamp audio amplifier with a digital one... Nothing beats the lamp... The sound from a Lamp amplifier is sweet because its analogue... Camera negative has character that is missing from internegative stocks... also the natural anti-aliasing of phosphor along with the natural flare of the lamp, are rounding things and make them more appealing, while you can still count 4K in the microscope on neg... The only reason that I don't do many Filmouts is just because politics and price dumping... There isn't a single blind comparison that we have done all over the world, the last three years, that not come out as a winner... Aaton K is working with a "Sony style" 4K LCoS panel... if you see from close up in a projection screen a gray card, you will notice the individual pixels... you can't shoot pixels and print pixels and expect to get it good... Pixels can only be printed analogue... and analogue can be printed in both pixels and analogue... Google: "Lcos mirror photo" and see the pixels...

What actually David is claiming is not totally correct... let me elaborate in a more down to earth manner and a bit excadurated, very closely to what Phil's chart try to show: Let’s assume that we want to capture an 8 stops image from a sensor that has 12 bits internal processing that’s 4096 steps of light intensity to an 8bit compressed H264 file that’s 256 steps like a 5D camera is doing. In “linear” the top brightest stop n. 8 will consume 128 steps, the stop n. 7 will consume the next 64 steps and the stop n. 6 will consume the next 32 steps. The top 3 brightest stops of an image when is being described in linear will result to “consume” the 87,5% of the available bits in a file, leaving the lower 5 stops of the mid-tones/shadows to be described by just 32 bits…!!! On "Log" we allocate 10 stops in equivalent segments like 25 bits for each stop. That results to a secondary data compression of an applied curve, which needs to be decompressed with the use of an appropriate 3D LUT in order to counteract accurately also the saturation of the converted image. By doing that we effectively recreate information that wasn’t visible in the original file but was there in the original image the sensor was capturing. So the difference between Linear and Log is night and day…

After a long time of collecting and preparing I’m very happy to announce our new web site has today finally launched… even though few things are missing… It’s designed to educate about workflows and LUT’s, what is Log and what is Linear, what are the differences, how you can get a DCP XYZ conversion LUT, what’s the differences between Film recorders etc… How with one Color Grading session you can deliver on anything like, Film, DCP, HD, internet etc. What is the Digital Delimma and why your Digital movie is in danger if it’s not stored in a medium that can withstand 60 years in store and ignore state and be there for the next generations… There is an array of services we offer for all the actors of Cinematography… Post facilities, Producers, Cinematographers, DIT’s and Students can get a helping hand from us… Also generic LUT’s for typical Apple MAC setups running Color, DaVinci, Iridas, Scratch, 3cp etc… Also LUT’s for cameras like Alexa, RED, F3, F35 etc… And lastly lots of awarded movies we have done with our clients around the world with high res images, info and articles… For the first three clients of the consulting packages I will give a refund of 40%... Hope its interesting… awaiting your comments… http://www.motionfx.gr/film-overview.html

And the also famous fluid zoom drive, it has being used more than the others but again rarely, it is smooth as silk... detailed description: 102-13 Fluid Zoom Drive mod. 0.8 gear Cinestyle & Film 102-13-01 Bracket for Fluid Zoom Drive Canon 8-64 + 7-63, with rod Total list 1637$ My price is 800 euro's including shipping everywhere (that's about 1145$ with todays exchange rate) As a package deal I will also do a better price... 5500 euro's for all (matte box, FF, fluid drive) including shipping with DHL everywhere... Or If you want just the Mattebox and the FF my price for you is 5000 euro's including shipping with DHL everywhere... The items I sell, is for 15mm lightweight 60mm spacing system. There are a lot of bridge plates available, the best is from Element Technica that has the support and the rods for the 15mm lightweight... http://www.elementtechnica.com/products/view.php?p=64 http://www.elementtechnica.com/products/view.php?p=72 Or for RED users you can use this which acts like a bridge plate... I like this, more... http://www.elementtechnica.com/products/view.php?p=95 I select the lightweight because the19mmm are very heavy... Also there are adapters if you search Google for "15mm to 19mm adapter"... from Chrosziel, Arri, Zacuto, ET and many others also in ebay... http://cgi.ebay.ie/19mm-to-15mm-Brid...08201510001r52 Payment is with bank transfer. I will also expect offers if you don't agree with what I'm asking

The follow focus is the famous studio FF with dual handwheel's and 0.8mm gear read to be used for cine lenses, also there are four replacing scales,(not that the original want replacing... they not even used...), very smooth motion like new, detailed description: 201-01 Studio Rig -Film-, focus control incl. handwheel with scale, focus lever list price 3699 201-02 2nd Handwheel for Studio Rig incl. Scale list price 600$ 201-04 Scale for Studio Rig (201-/203-) list price 224$ (four pieces) 201-12 Focus Drive for Video prime lenses and Cine Style, for Studio Rig, mod 0.8 - Ø 25,6 mm, B 8mm (teeth 30) list price 159$ Total list 4682$ My price is 2400 euro's including shipping with DHL everywhere (that's about 3437$ with todays exchange rate) In the following post is the fluid zoom and last details...

I have two cameras... and I have two sets of Chrosziel matte box, FF, and one fluid drive... I decided to sell one set... because it seems that I never rent both on the same time for some unknown reason... so the triple stage one and the one studio FF are getting dust the last few years on the shelf... they are used for just five or six ads... so there are like new... clean and unused... just some dust... Very few times I have used the fluid zoom drive, so I will let it go also... Both Fluid zoom drive and FF motion, is smooth as silk... The matte box is a swing away triple stage, with two rotating. Its for 15mm rods, can be used an adapter to mount to 19mm rods... or just change the swing away arm... detailed description: 805-02 Wide angle MatteBox 16:9/4:3 and Film, incl. housing (CLWAH-F8), french flag, pivot mechanism, swing-away bracket for Ø 15mm LWS rods, single filterstage with 1 filterholder multi-format 4x4/4x5.650 (410-31), rear plate Ø 142,5mm list price 4380$ 820-02 Double filterstage, rotatable, without Filterholders, for MB 805 list price 600$ 410-200 Set of Side Wings for wideangle housing, large list price 625$ 410-31 Filterholder multi-format for 4x4 and 4x5.650 horizontal filters (150mm wide) list price 318$ 410-31 Filterholder multi-format for 4x4 and 4x5.650 horizontal filters (150mm wide) list price 318$ 410-14F Rubber Bellows Retaining Ring Ø 142.5:95 mm list price 379$ 410-50 Retaining Ring Ø 142,5:120 mm list price 244$ 410-52 Retaining Ring Ø 142,5:117 mm and 117,4 mm for RED 300mm list price 159$ Total list 7023$ My price is 2800 euro's including shipping with DHL everywhere (that's about 4010$ with todays exchange rate) in following post is the FF...

Hello to all Please check this post in DVXuser: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=174960 Please comment...

We have developed a GG for Brevis that doesn't have a diffused side... both sides are totally polished like a glass window. It doesn't diffuse the image and it doesn't have grain. We called FiberScreen because it is made of fiber optics. Its like ARRI's 435 viewfinder. This test is with the FiberScreen. It is noticeable sharper than Pro35 to the point that it can be intercut with regular 2/3 lenses... http://www.motionfx.gr/ggrelay_galery.htm

Ravi, please go to menu under the diagnostic menu and tell me the camera status. Is it 11? Do you see any noise when in wide mode? Can you post the full size tiff? It will be great to see a color corrected image...

Sony government...

The question John is 1) why someone would buy an F23 and not a Viper? and 2) why Vipers are vanished? Only Fincher can understand the difference?

Averege is going half way to what a sophisicated algorithm will do... So the point is, that five years after Thomson introduce Viper, Sony build an F23 that is a lot less of a cinema camera than Viper is... In all aspects... DR, resolution, scope capable etc... So F23 can be a good B-camera on a Viper project...

John, Even if its on-chip averaging, that doesn't mean that light is not falling in physically different photosites, that have different noise patterns and light levels, in the same point in time... that is exactly the same as if it was, on a later step inside a DSP done an average processing step... the result will always be, lower noise floor and quieter resolution with no ringing effects... the same thing like getting 4K RGB frame and downres to HD res... the only problem is that we don't have access to the original 4K image... And yes you get more resolution, when shoot in 1:2.35 scope an ISO res chart we get 1300 lines... instead of 980... and that's because in scope the camera records in 1440 vertical resolution... but records only the center portion of it that is 1080 in anamorphic scope... So its not only clever, it is also very effective idea...

I don't thing that the design behind this sensor has to do with the 2/3 manufacturing easiness... because is the only 3 x 9Mpixels CCD sensor that Thomson is using, and its being designed from scratch to do scope... I thing David, a better reasoning is the 2/3 "culture" that they had... R&D to a bigger CCD wafer is much easier than a smaller... the breakthrough in microelectronics is to make things smaller... so toooo many broadcast engineers around that project... and they have Fu%$#$@ it... The performance of the camera today has nothing to fear from F23... and a lot to fear from F35... RED is another story... DoF is the number one difference... WHICH IS BIG, and in favor of RED... Dynamic range which is in favor of Viper by at least 2,5 stops... Motion artifacts like skew and global shutter are non exist in Viper since it is using a true mechanical shutter. The uncompressed nature of Viper gives much better results in all aspects of image, but its harder to work with than RED... Resolution is another subject... lets compare... in case of CinemaScope feture, like "Benjamin Button"... With RED we have at 4K in the center of an ISO card 1450 lines, with Viper in scope mode, we have 1300 lines. When we film out we using, 2K film recording almost 99%... So with RED we get from a 4096 x 1742 bayer, thats 7.1 Mpixels source, we get 2048 x 871 image. With Viper we get from a 1920 x 3240 RGB sensor, thats 3 x (1920 x 3240)= 18,66 Mpixels source, a 1920 x 1080 anamorphic scope image... RED = 2048 x 871 = 1.78Mpixels in the theatrical CinemaScope projection F23 = 1920 x 817 = 1.56Mpixels in the theatrical CinemaScope projection F35 = the same as F23... Viper = 1920 x 1080 anamorphic pixels = 2.07Mpixels in the theatrical CinemaScope projection So with Viper against RED, F23, F35, we get a better resolution by at least 25% when projecting in CinemaScope... Viper has a bigger resolution than all the others and it gets that because of the 27Mpixels sensor... If the CinemaScope its not Cinema and DoF is what matters, then its not a Digital Cinema camera... But to judge a camera like Viper with how its being list in a web site... for me, the marketing guys in Thomson, they have mess it up big time... For me Viper is way better than all Sony cameras apart from F35... As i see it is EPIC FF35, D21, F35, Viper and all the rest

Its the only 3 x 9Mpixels camera that Thomson builds, its the only 2,35 :1 native HD camera... it has 27.5Mpixels CCD to deliver a 1080p image, thats x4 oversampling... its 2.5 times the pixel count of RED... it has a real mechanical shutter... So no David, I disagree, its not designed for TV... its a real Digital Cinema camera... In CinemaScope mode with standard lenses, it delivers the same resolution as RED does... with the difference that the same pixels are derived from 2x source pixels as RED has... I don't thing a regular broadcast camera gets 13 Oscar nominations... F23 its not even close... Of coarse an S35mm ccd on a new Viper would not heart us...

HDCAM is, 3:1:1, 1440 x 1080, 8 bits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCAM The 3.1.1 is the limitation to keying... HDCAM-SR is 4:2:2 and 4:4:4, 1920 x 1080, 10 bits.

Hello guys Im looking to buy a CLA35HD adapter. For spare parts for the one that I have... If their is one available please email me at Lakis@motionfx.gr

Actually detail on camera is a post process, and a very bad quality indeed.... So I suggest -7 detail aka no detail. Add detail in post with your favorite software, you will realize that the detail addition in that way is much finner than the one in camera. In order to see the focus in your viewfinder their is a viewfinder detail only (thats not recorded) its just for working the focusing. Also you can use (when they are available) a Brevis35 or a Letus B4 relay with this adapters that are much sharper than Pro35. I have made a relay which is available now for Brevis35, but it doesn't flip the image, its designed for bigger cameras that have scan reverse, like Varicam, HPX3000, F900R etc.

The P2 cards have enough bandwidth for six times 100Mbit, the extra bandwidth is needed for verify data... But I thing a 200 AVC-intra 4:4:4 would be feasible with the current hardware for 30fps. As an owner of a Varicam F, I just bought a HPM110 and upgraded my Varicam with AVC-Intra, ohh I also have the tape! so no backup for me... So this is a declaration: My next camera will have a 35mm sensor, never again 2/3, finished, never for me. I don't care about resolution I do care about DoF and latitude or bit depth. So if Panasonic wants me it has to build a 35mm Varicam with 200 AVC-Intra Log (equivalent to Cineon 850), 1-75fps, 12 stops and in the price range of 30K$ to 50K$... Ohh I forgot in a separate P2 card, DV proxies with the same filenames as the master clips for immediate off line capability and easy relink (no mpg4, a good intra frame all around format). Also a 1Gbit Ethernet port with the proxy card as a network drive with enough bandwidth to do editing directly from the proxy card while the camera still records... so remote edit and playback without removing the proxy card! If they want more ideas they have to pay me! This is a dream probably... Thats my two euro cents...

Jason I'm following SI from the first forum announcement I followed the "spoon" demos, I also followed RED. I haven't invest in RED yet. My biggest problem with SI is the size of sensor. I cant accept that I will buy another 2/3 camera... SI/2K is beautiful and the experience of Alfred (P+S) is a big add. But to buy a new camera without DoF of 35mm, again! it hurts badly. To have to buy a PRO35 for SI/2K with all the problems that are introduced, plus the huge cost (compared to RED or the SI/2K it self) it just meaningless. I already have a Varicam that performs very reasonable but again with all the DoF adapter problems that I may have... But another 2/3 is not an option for me. I wont even try the new Varicam 3700 regardless quality/resolution, never a 2/3 again in my shopping list. Anyone that says that a good Digiprime 2/3 would be equivalent to 35mm DoF, he is just try to convince himself for the lack of DoF. I'm not trying to round up things, no DoF 35mm IS a huge problem. Whatever you do, the feeling, the image, its not the same. I have to accept this, RED has it and its a big plus... But why not a 35mm size SI/2K? why didn't you build one in the first place?

Being a film recording facility and a color grading service company for years, my experience with Varicam from the oldest one the F, the H and the 3000 compared to footage that I got from 750 and 900R, Panasonic cameras are very much better than the Sony cameras, and that is evident when you try to leverage detail from blacks. Panasonic cameras when being operated in Filmrec mode they have a special compression mode called dark which is designed to prioritize the dark areas when capturing. The combination of Filmrec mode along with dark compression given to the mid exposure for the Cine gamma is 32% IRE (for mid gray 18%) gives about 9,5 very good quality DR (noise level less than 0,25 F-stop) which can extended to 10,5 stops with acceptable noise with a very filmic pattern. In contrast F900R at HG3 has 7 stops and you can push it up to 8,7 maximum before noise gets really ugly. The numbers is with the old Varicam F. The new cameras have another 0,5 stop extra headroom. Also CineGamma is a LOG capture system similar to the S-Log that F23 has. So yes Varicam series has a difference of at least 2,5 stops as far as noise concerns, which is quite huge difference? Also there is a difference of 40% better micro contrast capture between Varicam and F900R which again it?s huge? The question should be ?F900R noise?? In this forum there are a lot of posts with numbers and detailed measurements of all this, search a bit and you will find them. If you want resolution, go for F900R or RED, if you want latitude low noise and great filmic textures, go for Varicam. If you want both go for HPX3000 or F23. As for the set up, use Filmrec, gain -3db, DL 500, master gamma 0,35, let the blacks to 0 (stretch, pedestal etc.), shoot with preset white balance, do black balance and turn on dark compression on every power cycle. Light with your light meter set up for 24fps at 640ASA (setup it accordingly for 30fps), don?t look the monitor, it will be very low contrast and dark, rent a Panasonic BT-LH1700 LCD monitor and turn on the CineGamma to see accurately. It is crucial to set up the scene as you would with a film camera just with the light meter being confident that you have -/+1,5 stops to play with and a total of 10. Then you must use an AJ-HD1400 VTR, and turn on Gamma correction in the menu item 693, put it 0002 for TV targeted material, and 0003 for film out in LOG processing system.

All these points plus many more that are being partially addressed with “workarounds” from third party vendors with a price tag “whatever you buy is 500$...” and a lot of gaffer tape... was also my first thoughts about the industrial design abilities of the RED team. It seems to be more “trendy look” designers than experienced engineers that understand well the ergonomics fundamentals of machines. They are doing well in electronic design, well in software design they are capable to build almost anything in mechanical design and they have all the money that are needed… But Jim, it’s not how smart or how good you are in one thing isolated from the others, like good software design but never being a colorist or at least work for a while as a colorist in order to perceive the problems. It’s a must for an engineer to actually try to work as one and not discuss the problems with a colorist because in that way he can’t perceive the problems in a spherical way, and fall in the trap to see things from the viewpoint the specific colorist has. An engineer has to be able to really be in the position of the user of device that he designs in order to solve the problems accurately. Philosophy is a must in design, like Aristotelis (the Greek philosopher teacher of Alexander the Great) once said that you have to know well the problem first and then try to solve it. RED design team miss probably guidance from a person that has deep knowledge and spherical view of electronic design, mechanical design, software design, understand ergonomics, have a high index of emotional intelligence, has REALY worked as an 2nd AC for at least one month, has the ability to judge his findings, understand the psychology of the filming crew, analyze the tech-problems/behaviors of the crew. That person has to have also a deep knowledge, first hand, from the post production side, all the way up to film out. All these qualities have to be inside one brain in order the spherical view to happen. Then the guidance it’s a child’s game and the design goal it’s obvious. Probably companies like ARRI or Panavision or Sony or Panasonic earned through the years the collective knowledge of all the above and that’s why they produce hardworking machines. I thing RED has to find a design leader to be included on the team for RED TWO. Or there will be so many lessons learned (I hope) from the users of RED ONE that RED TWO will be a wonder! The machines have to be designed to serve man, don’t expect to educate the man to serve the machines.

Sorry that I jumped late on that thread… Since 2005 we are using Final Touch and now it’s Color. We have finish in Color more than 20 projects all for film out. In Color its easy to work the grade, I can say it’s almost flawless. The tricky part is the color management and the putting in a project and take out a project… Through the years we have developed workarounds that has minimize these problems. Since we have in house a Lasergraphics producer and an Arri laser for film out we decided to share our secret sauce of color management for a small consulting fee to start with and in return to film record our clients’ projects done with Color in our facilities in Athens. We where in beta testing the idea the last six months with two post houses one in New York and another in L.A. The result in the quest for WYSIWYG was success, with a marginal error of +/- 1 printer lights. The total cost for them was one off 5K$ to 10K$ for the initial setup (with all the tools that they have to buy including the arrangement on the display devices and the room environment) and then they just pay for the minute they print in our recorders in prices that are extremely competitive. For me it’s a tough job because am acting as a DI consultant that’s miles away communicating through Skype, but today after finished and screened the second movie few days ago, I can say that I will have my second credit in IMDB, soon, from an American movie graded in NY and film recorded in Athens, thanks to Color. I can say that, Color will bring a revolution in the color grading business environment very soon. Of coarse it’s not easy, but soon services like ours will be widely available... but this is the globalization… In the coming couple of weeks there will be announcements and a new web site that will advertise all that stay tuned.

Don?t worry Brian, am just pointing that for under 5K$ you can have similar results as Pro35 (or better) but with five times less money? And we can deliver the relay today! Its not vapour?

Brian, the images above are in native resolution (shot on Varicam 1280x720), do you see the details i.e. in the eyelashes of the boy, or in the box of the eggs the very small letters? It’s very hard to notice any resolution drop even above 900 lines on a F900R… and in a 9” you cant see any difference in resolution whatsoever. I haven’t had any experience with Pro35, but I know that was designed for standard definition to start with. Have you ever seen the CLA 35 from Angenieux in a work, they say that it doesn’t preserve the DoF of 35, it just adapt the lens to the B4 mount? Does it has a ground glass or not?