victor huey

What i mean to say is that the 18 and 22mm vignette on four perf a bit....I bet the PL mounts adds a bit of thickness to the lens flange. Remember these are standard speed lens which are slower but super speeds are almost impossible to find and are going for almost 1k apiece now, and meaning that you will need more light to shoot your film, adding cost. it is not a bad deal..but the word of warning applies to people who you have not dealt with....since if you are sending funds via western union, or money orders. A lot of these adaptors are exactly precise so you will have to budget service work to be done to fine tune and relube them before you can really use on your camrera... Owning gear these days is a never ending battle, so if you don't have the budget for it rent, if you want to won a camera there is a new generation of 1080p camcorders coming, so you can shoot you music videos and such for 8-9k , but if you insist on going film you better start saving now, prices of glass is skyrocketing

Hi, those are all spherical lens....just that the 18 and 22 will on 4 perf. Just remember these are PL mounts so the cost of a conversion per lens is about $300, so it's bad deal....but remember a Kinor 35H conversion to PL is very costly because the movement must be moved to make up for lack of clearance. Any PL mounted camera say a Arri BL3 or 4 will cost you around 20-25k. I red cam will cost you at least that much....so you are talking about 30k investment, not counting the work you have to do to get the lens in shape, they all need maintainance..no matter where they are from. So it all depends on your real budget or your dreams, you can get a sony ex1 1080p camcorder for 8-9k with sxs cards....but if you are set on getting a film camera......grabbing a set of lens are the way to start, the body can always be rented....people have been buying bodies and have no lens for them....price of new Cooke s4's are in the range of 80-90k so you have to bite the bullet, especially with sending money orders and western union, if it's too good to be true maybe it isn't....word of warning... Victor

Hi Alexi, The Price of BL3 and BL4 have dropped, to around 20-25K, and therein lies the rub. To convert one to 2 perf will also run you around 10k , so you initial cost is going to be around 30-35K, and that is without lens. The price of used lens in the age of RED have sky rocketed, but Oct.19 lens are still way cheaper than used Zeiss.....so buying a crystal sync konvas will do all your music video stuff as well as a Arri2c, but using lower cost Lomo lens. It's all about the glass now, so when your feature project finally comes together, you can upgrade to a kinor 2perf body. You can extract a 2 perf frame out of a four perf frame, using current editing software like FCP, so while you are burning film at four perf rate , for music video's you are usually shooting short ends anyway. Get the body that is right for you, but building a system based on lomo glass is a good way to start. Even people who buy the red body suddenly find out how much real 35mm glass costs. victor

Hi Alexi, I have a spare Kinor 35H body, sitting at Bruce's right now I had bought from Raf. I got the body cheap, and was going to build a "B" camera 2 perf Camera body. My "A" body Kinor has been sitting on Bruce's bench partially converted already. Bruce offers 20% discount for two conversions done at the same time. So I have been waiting for someone to convert their body along with mine to take advantage of the discount. The price of a total rebuilt, new electronics, new mirror, new optical path, KS pin conversion, 2 perf conversion will cost you about 10K, If i can get $1500 for my body, then your cost will be 11,500 or so...but then you have a totally rebuilt camera inside out. Add another 2k for a video tap, and there you have it. The price of investment will recoupe itself on your first feature. There are now several of these rigs on the east and west coast, that you can rent as back up KInor 35H for a B camera. One feature was just shot with a 2 perf Kinor 35c body, and the owner is selling that body after he finished the film. So he has recouped most of his cost already, instead of renting a camera, or buying an outdated Arri 2c with limited use. If you have any questions email me. vichuey@yahoo.com. Victor

I Have a kinor 35H sitting at The Aranda Group in Austrailla awaiting conversion to 2 perf. It has been sitting there for more than a year, because the original plan to convert my body along with another Kinor owner to take advantage of a 20% discount, fell through when my camera arrived too late. So I have been waiting for another kinor 35H owner to convert their camera along with mine because Bruce will give us a 20% discount when work is done at the same time. 25% discount if three bodies are converted, etc. WHich is $1000 off conversion price. SO if any of you kinor owners out there have been thinking about converting to 2 perf, here's your chance. I also have a spare Kinor Body, that needs to be converted as well, for sale now at Bruces as well. I am willing to offer this to members of this group. If you are interested please contact me at: vichuey@yahoo.com Victor

Sorry for the blank post guys. Hey Bruce, i have to jump in here. Anders has one of the only Kinor 2 perf cams , because the cost of conversion is very complicated requiring the moving of the movement because there isn't enough space for the PL mount. So it is not a simple mount swap. Since you got the movement out, you might as well have it redone for variable shutter as well. So asking nicely won't get it, bringing lots of cash will, especially with the dollar tanking. btw: My Old Post still stands, I am selling a spare kinor body ready for conversion: I Have a kinor 35H sitting at The Aranda Group in Austrailla awaiting conversion to 2 perf. It has been sitting there for more than a year, because the original plan to convert my body along with another Kinor owner to take advantage of a 20% discount, fell through when my camera arrived too late. So I have been waiting for another kinor 35H owner to convert their camera along with mine because Bruce will give us a 20% discount when work is done at the same time. 25% discount if three bodies are converted, etc. WHich is $1000 off conversion price. SO if any of you kinor owners out there have been thinking about converting to 2 perf, here's your chance. I also have a spare Kinor Body, that needs to be converted as well, for sale now at Bruces as well. I am willing to offer this to members of this group. If you are interested please contact me at: vichuey@yahoo.com Victor

if you still have the 10mm i am interested

can you send me ronnie's address to vichuey@yahoo.com

who did the conversion? How recently was it done? Has the camera been tuned up before they did test? Oftentimes a converted camera needs some TLC to take out and issues with gate, since it has been modified. CHeck the mags as well, as some of these have been sitting around unsed for almost 15 years. Victor

Hi All, I Have a kinor 35H sitting at The Aranda Group in Austrailla awaiting conversion to 2 perf. It has been sitting there for more than a year, because the original plan to convert my body along with another Kinor owner to take advantage of a 20% discount, fell through when my camera arrived too late. So I have been waiting for another kinor 35H owner to convert their camera along with mine because Bruce will give us a 20% discount when work is done at the same time. 25% discount if three bodies are converted, etc. WHich is $1000 off conversion price. SO if any of you kinor owners out there have been thinking about converting to 2 perf, here's your chance. I also have a spare Kinor Body, that needs to be converted as well, for sale now at Bruces as well. I am willing to offer this to members of this group. If you are interested please contact me at: vichuey@yahoo.com Victor

Hi All, I Have a kinor 35H sitting at The Aranda Group in Austrailla awaiting conversion to 2 perf. It has been sitting there for more than a year, because the original plan to convert my body along with another Kinor owner to take advantage of a 20% discount, fell through when my camera arrived too late. So I have been waiting for another kinor 35H owner to convert their camera along with mine because Bruce will give us a 20% discount when work is done at the same time. 25% discount if three bodies are converted, etc. WHich is $1000 off conversion price. SO if any of you kinor owners out there have been thinking about converting to 2 perf, here's your chance. I also have a spare Kinor Body, that needs to be converted as well, for sale now at Bruces as well. I am willing to offer this to members of this group. If you are interested please contact me at: vichuey@yahoo.com Victor

Yes, Roberto Schaeffer has one, he used it on "Stay" was developed for the ballon cam, it's an mos camera, but is really light , in order to fly it. Has anyone seen the camera first hand? It looks impressive. The weight is incredible. Henry.

here is a photo of karl kim's 2 perf Kinor 35H

There are at least 10 kinor 35H sync 2perf cameras that i know of as well. 6 owned by solid entertainment of sweden, 2 privately owned in New York, and one in LA, and one in New Orleans. I know of two Kinor 35H to be converted in the near future. Check with the konvas uers group.

Shooting in China for the first time? Wat happens if gear is lost or damaged in transit, and you wind up with a different rig, not yours, as the say "Murphy's law", two days for pre light you are so lucky.....hahahaha One thing about working in china, no matter how well you think it is pre planned and well organized, expect to be surprised , in fact if there is no surprise that would be a surprise! Like they say the best laid plans of mice an men, back up back up, bring spares...you'll need it. I've shot in china for over 20 years.....sooooo Victor

Chris, One of the major factors of shooting 2 perf is that you can use fast speed lens, and avoid the expensive rentals of slow speed anamorphics. Today's home computers can edit this without a problem. with todays fine grain vision stocks, all these factors are contributing to the revival of the two perf movement. Victor [ quote name=Chris Walters' date='Oct 17 2007, 01:37 PM' post='198899] If your shooting on two perf does that requre anamorphic lenses to get the 2.39 image or can you shoot with spherical lenses. Chris Walters

the seller states it is a 2 perf pulldown.

Hi All. there are now two and perhaps three kinor 35H owner's who have decided to do the conversion. So we are shooting for the end of October to have all these camera's arrive at aranda at the same time. 2 conversions equal 20% discount, 3 conversons 25% etc...So if you ever considered moving into the world of 2 perf now is the time. Victor

James, if i were to do the math of the cost of printing workprints, mag stock, answer prints.....editing in old school makes no financial sense for me. DV cam dailes only , is one path during transfer, but you can also at additonal cost make an additional hd print hd at the same time. You have to pay for the extra HD tape, plus dvcam tape, but still way cheaper that workprint stock and mag stock. You can then project your dailes via hd, or watch on an large hd monitor. That is how we do it in feature film production using the panavision genisis, it is recorded on hd tape, and monnitored using a hd monitor on set. What you see is what you get. You have bought all this lab equipment that has to be setup and maintained. if you are just processing small batches you will be wasting alot of chemicals, and will be needing to clean those rollers, and tanks, between runs. It just makes no sense with small batch runs, because you will be expending alot of energy cleaning and setting up all your lab gear...i mean you are going to be working 24/7 trying to do it all...i for one need sleep. I am trying to find a balance by using old school film techniques in aquisition, but going the digital route in post. I don't know what expierence with AATON's but i have never had any problems with them, as i find that any camera properly manintained will run as it was designed, poor maintainince is often the cause of problems, remeber these are mechanical machines and they break down all the time. The panivision camera we use have daily maintaince, and backup bodies in case anything goes wrong. People in the indie world often used cameras that are used and abused and prone to breaking down, maintaince is the furthest thing from their minds. Herein lies the problem with using commiecams. These are cameras which have not been used since 1990, 17 years sitting on a shelf, and they have to be lubed and tweeked back to factory spec, and have it done again at the start of each shoot. It is standard operating procedure in most professional shoots. People who use Russian gear, are ofter working with low budgets and in exp[erienced crews, and maintaince and technical expertise to trouble shoot is sorely lacking. I am just rtying to build up a knowledge base and work with others who have decided to convert their cameras to 2 perf, and work with these rebuilt camera's as they are almost one off cameras. The same can be said for the Red camera, as it rolls out of production, in the early stages working with first run camera's will require a rebuilding of the knowledge base, and techniques to get these camera's operational in a real world production. So for me, I will not open a lab for my self, i will let the pro's do that...they do it 24/7, i don't. I will however work on my Mac based editing system, use the latest editing software and upgrade any produyction software that will help me deliver the most finished HD print I can deliver for the film festival circuit. Victor

Hi James, Like i said you have your own path I have mine.....I priced out the path going old school and the cost of making even a one light print can easily cost you a small fortune, by the time you lock picture, and strike an answer print. Another way is to transfer your negative to an HD video format 720p or 1080p etc.. or even dv cam dailes, and edit that towards a locked picture on a desktop computer. Then you can do music, color correct it using protools and FCP6 and then output an HD video ready for screening in film festivals. Why I am shooting 2 perf instead of using th HD cam or HDV cam? i like the quality of the the excellent russian super speed glass , that I managed to buy over time and the quality of the new vision 2 stocks. Going 2 perf allows me to have an original negative in film, which allows me to edit via the hd video workflow. It gives me a way to deliver a festival ready hd print, without going through the expense of making workprints and conforming, which can be quite expensive when you add it all up. This way I still have a master negative untouched, ready to go DI route if the films does well at the festival circuit and attracts further funding. All I am saying is we are both pursuing the same goal, we are just taking different paths to it. Many of the film festivals I have been going to, Berlin, Pusan,Tribeca, are showing more and more digital projects via HD projection, some of them are winning awards and finding distribution. For a generation of new film makers who have never shot with film, they don't miss it, don't use it, or even consider working with it. The Majors have agreed to a new projection format, and there are now 10% of movie theaters that project in HD, and take prints produced on hard drives. So we are both old school because we will be working in film...we are both trying to find a way to make our fillms work in this digital age.

Ok James, i don't want to get into a flame war with you, you go your way , i go mine...we all travel our own roads anyway. I have worked in major motion pictures for many years local 52 IAS\TSE, and have worked on many big budget films with bad scripts. SO for me my first feature film , I have to a well rehersed script with everyone on the production team on the same page, carefully planned, and efficently shot...otherwise why bother.... As far as work flow, DI route is not an option at this stage, but a video hd transfer at 720p is, dump into finalcut pro which cuts it with no problem...and you can do the music and color correction too....so I will be able to deliver a hd 720p print for festival screenings, that is the route i am taking, no film out unless there is interst from a distributor..... what i get shooting film is lattitude, i work with lighting for many of the top dp's in the biz, and film has a quality still not acheived by HD. THe AC on the job i am working on was going to work on peter jackson's new film to be shot on a red cam. after many test they decided not to shoot their next film with the red, evern though he will get two red cams, it's still to risky to shoot with basically first run cameras. If you go the DI route you will be amazed how much grain can be taken out with today's software....in fact they used it to blow up standard 35mm to 70mm....like apollo 13...so if some one really likes the work......then they pay for the DI route......hopefully the film i make and the film you make will be good enough to find a distributor. Victor

I am based in New york city quote name='A. Whitehouse' date='Sep 7 2007, 07:59 AM' post='192070'] Hi Victor, Where are you based? I would be interested in seeing your rig when you finally get it finished but I wasn't sure if you were in Australia yourself. I'm in Melbourne and was also interested in who you'd talked to about post work flows for 2-perf in Australia. But then you may not be based here... Thanks, Sasha

Hi James, You miss the point here, 2 perf died because the the post workflow required a technisope three strip process, dye transfer prints that last forever, but the process was expensive, and the equipment sold off to china. What is reviving the 2 perf movement, is the digital age allows for 2 perf DI route, if you choose to go that route. alternatively a lower cost route, You can now make a hd video print, as spirit scanners have the capacity to do 2 perf in there software. You can post in HD, on a desktop computer, and finish to deliver an HD video print. suitable for film festivals, as most now have hd projection. If you win an award, or get interest from a distributor, then you can do the final finish via DI route. Anamorphic glass is slow, and need more light , requiring more expense at shooting stage. The cost of an anamorphic set of lens, equals the cost of conversion. So for me, as the RED cam looms, a full set up with lens package can cost almost 50K. Russian fast lomo lens are excellent and cheap..I bought the lens and tested them on a konvas body, and it has convinced me to continue the path to build a 2 perf cam. Besides it's never the gear that counts, it's the story........so my time is spend working on my script and not wasted shooting film for the sake of it, you can shoot dv if that is your jones to shoot. But to shoot in film, for a project that requires it, i want to do it as cheaply as possible. When AATon, and Arri release their 2 perf cams, in answer to the growing HD movement, film is not dead yet. By then there will be more support as modern 2 perf sync cams come on the market. A 2 perf kinor just gets me into the game for less money. Victor

hey james, thats just for the conversion, and new electronics and video tap....so a total overhaul. So if another kinor owner comes in we can save on that too. Besides, anyone who uses these rebuilt 2 perf cameras in any serious production will need a backup body. Knowing that there is another 2 perf conversion, will allow us users to support each other's productions. These cameras take a long time to convert and turnaround service doesn't exist yet. So as a community we need to support each other in our indie efforts. Victor