Gregg MacPherson

Me too...looks like Arri standard (Arri-S). I'm guessing you don't have an Arri-S or Arri-B/S camera mount "adapter', that screws onto the camera flange. I think the ACL native camera mount is TS (or is that TS-1?) and the camera mount adapter is called TS/Arri-S etc...The B/S one does both, the button on the side retracts the tab that sits in the Arri-S groove. Those two "adapters" are the most common ones around and used to be easy to find, just becoming scarce when prices rose again. Happy to take notes from Simon if I have muddled a term or got it backwards.

Hey Chris, Nice to hear from you. This could be an interesting dance...The camera kit is a honey as you know. It may have shot only one short film from new, then just scratch tests. It's still almost brand new. Setting a price is difficult....A few years ago there was a low point in 16mm prices, a nadir where I think I saw an XTERA kit on eBay sell for $2.5K. Now we have forum members listing their XTRs for over $20K and $27K. The value of good ACL kits will also rise. As a reference, the recent eBay sale (item:266036424167), an ACL1.5 S16, good Ang. VF, PL and Arri-B mounts, 1x400', 2x200'mags (don't think the mags were S16)..sold for $5K (I checked with the seller). Using that reference, I value my kit at about $7K without fees. Yes there are some inflated eBay listings of ACL kits that can be ignored. Commonly standard 16, not well optioned, with poor viewfinders or crap ground glass. Listings at USD7K, 10K, 9.6K from provideofilm. And multiple ACL Is, minimum kit for about USD3K from antiqu-photo. A recent S16 listing with a crap ground glass sat at over USD10K. I got an offer of $7K for my kit as listed above, before CLA, then modified to $7.4K with 2x400' S16, 2x200' S16 mags. I'd like to accept that offer, but we still have a hurdle to jump with shipping. Until I have a firm commitment I am still seeking offers. Gregg. PS...My email is the same as back then. Is yours? We can discus it further.

You can wrap some black paper camera tape over the edge of the lens front and then you won't scratch the filter. I have used CTO lighting gel in a jam, worked ok. When you have time you could test a lighting ND and see what happens.

Looking for the manual, I searched eBay for "moviola flatbed" and found some "timing belts"... eBay item number:323905925879 eBay item number:285014949041 And there were Steenbeck ones as well for Mark. (85cents per tooth...Steenbecks more nobby, must be worth it) eBay item number:324748353612 Gregg.

Short of time just now, so quickly... I had the same problems years ago. All were solved by replacing IC chips on the slot in circuit boards in the main stack. Finding spare boards that are good, finding the manual that details how they work, having a friend who understands this old tech, would all be mana from heaven. On Marks Point. The black belts in mine were the good ones. The spare parts were that black, rubbery material, and it was lasting well over time. There were also belts made of a translucent yellowy urethane material that aged, cracked, stripped teeth easily and seemed a waste of time. Misbehaving motor due to faulty IC chip(s) in a board was the main cause of damaged belts. The sound belts were short and I never had much problems. The belts for the picture head were long, of different lengths that had been used for the same job, by setting up different paths. You may find replacement belts. And they may not cost that much to have made. Imperial I'm sure. There was a guy on eBay selling the manual. The full manual is half a ream of A4 or more. Could only find an add for the 35mm manual... https://www.ebay.com/itm/330942048509 Ask him if he has the M-86 manual, knows of sources of parts etc....Maybe it was someone else. I have part of the manual. It's missing the parts that would make it easy for a tech to trouble shoot the ICs on the boards. Gregg.

I have a couple of those. I'm fairly sure they are M-86. One is for parts and I may have some other parts. Do you need a motor? Where is it in the machine exactly? Do you have the manuals? Will look in again when I have time. Gregg.

Like it says above, it's almost brand new. The motor is fully functional, all crystal speeds. Motor was upgraded/modified by Andrew at AZ Spectrum, I think when Visual products did the S16 convert. I don't think I have a picture included of the VP S16 ground glass. Their gg has the old lines removed and freshly etched S16 and TV safe marks. I listed the 400' mags because someone may want to add to the camera kit, or swap out 400' vs 200' mags. Gregg.

I started reading a little, looking for simple ways to understand the focal length relationships. With some simplifying assumptions, like treating the doublet or triplet as a single element, then applying ideas. I'm sure the equations when adding a diopter to a doublet or triplet will be more complicated, but hopefully this gives me a start. 1) When you add two thin lenses of focal length f1 and f2 together (with no gap between them) then effective focal length is given by F such that: 1/F = 1/f1 + 1/f2 2) When you add two lenses with a gap d between them then effective focal length is given by: 1/F = 1/f1 + 1/f2 - d/(f1*f2) The d/(f1*f20) is going to be extremely small, ignorable, so equn 1 then... F=the combined focal length of the lens and added neg diopter in the inboard end of the VF = 0.143m. f1= the focal length of the lens alone in the inboard end of the VF. f2 = the focal length of the neg diopter in m, so 1/f2 = the diopter number. 1/0.145 - 1/0.102 = 1/f2 => 7 - 9.8 -2.8 diopter I assume a small reduction in magnification. I'll look at that. I would actually prefer the kinoptik VF image slightly smaller. Edit: Magnification may be = f1/f2 =0.102/0.357...so too much. Something else is needed. Probably more knowledge...reading. Gregg.

I updated the screenshot from the dwg again (Eclair forum moderator privilege). For now I'm just guessing on what the elements are inside the original VF/eyepiece. My idea of shifting the VF forward requires extending the focal length on the inboard side of the VF. As a notion, I'm doing that with a single element neg. diopter. There is room axially to place a more sophisticated lens there, if that's useful and feasible. The ID for the inboard end of the VF is 18mm. There is a thread visible further down. The astronomy forums may be a source of ideas. A glimpse there showed activity and some knowledgeable people. Meanwhile i better read a little..

Thanks David, That picture is a very useful prod. I wasn't patient enough looking for likely lens configurations within viewfinders. My guess is that the Kinoptik VF does have a configuration as in your drawing. What may not be clear from my text and drawings is that both of the doublets are mounted within the viewfinder itself. There's no easy way to increase the distance between them without modifying the VF housings, which I want to avoid. So my idea was to shift the intact VF and compensate with a negative diopter at the camera end. My drawing shows that diopter as a simple single element, but there may be an axial distance of up to 16mm to place a more sophisticated lens. I'll update my dwg with an approximation of the achromatic doublets, but I think you get me already. Gregg.

The Kinoptik VF has a focusing lens at either end. The rays may be parallel (collimated) in between. So when the VF shifts away from the camera it makes sense that the gg will not stay in focus. My earlier drawing with the neg diopter placed just inside the VF port on the camera, I don't think will work. It's too far away from the VF on the optical path. But there is a lot of room to place a modifier inside the inner end of the VF, which is where it probably should go. See the updated dwg above. The ID=18mm. In the following, and in the dwg, I'm representing the focusing lens at either end of the VF as a simple positive diopter The unmodified distance from the gg to the (camera side) "diopter" on the VF is 103mm. So that is approx a +10 diopter. The modified distance, with the translated VF is 143mm. So that needs a +7 diopter. The +10 will focus too close. This is where I need to go back and read some on basic theory. Do I simply add a -3 diopter? Gregg.

Hello David, If I had completed my physics/eng. degree instead of escaping to Art School I would have some better ideas to work with now. Shifting the VF horizontally away from the camera and trying to understand the changed image was one of the first things I did. Up to a shift of about 7mm I could restore focus with the eyepiece diopter. My eyes normally need the eyepiece at +5 to +6, the video tap maybe skewing the scale a bit, and with the 7mm shift the eyepiece diopter was at -6, the crosshairs sharp. Shifting the VF out 20mm as in my first drawings, the crosshairs disappeared. The size of the image in this sloppy experiment didn't change much, or at all. I'm tempted to set up some kind of test bench and just insert a negative diopter into segment A, just inside the VF mount port. The original, unmodified length of the optical path from the ground glass prism to (approximately) the lens of the eye is 335mm. The modified path is 375.4mm. Gregg.

Hey Boris, It's been a while. There may be a couple of places to accommodate extra elements easily, but if the optics are better understood it may restrict their position. There is plenty of room inside the VF porthole on the camera body, the first obvious place. See updated drawing. I've never looked inside the part of the finder that swings over for the "left-eye/right-eye" option (segment E in new dwg). Have you seen what's in there? I don't want to pull it apart without good reason. Gregg.

An updated drawing...(again on 5th April 2023)

That was fun. Thanks.

Brendan, Can you give links so one can easily see the auction listings. Much appreciated. Gregg.

I'm selling most of, possibly all of, my Eclair ACL gear....An almost new ACL II kit, and separately, 3x400' French mags. It's difficult to set a price, so for now I'm seeking offers. The only useful reference I can find on price is a recent eBay sale for USD5K, eBay item number:266036424167. But that kit was more used and less well optioned. Meanwhile people on the forum have advertised their XTRs at north of 20K and 27K. We can start a sidebar somewhere on the relative value or usefulness of these cameras. The interesting questions and any sidebars into Eclair esoterica belong on the Eclair Fleamarket thread (page 2, same date)..... https://cinematography.com/index.php?/forums/topic/91893-eclair-flea-market/page/2/#comment-575118 Direct message me with any offers or serious enquiries. 3) S16 ACL II kit, (seeking offers). https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iv95oerahx3929f/AADPd-7BkrctDPv78WjwtDlDa?dl=0 S16 ACL II kit in almost new condition. I didn't get to use it. The guy I got it from (Chris Squires), when he got it I don't know if it had ever been used, it still had the Eclair factory test film with it. He shot a couple of short films with it. Anyway, looks brand new. Conversion was started by Les Bosher then done over and finished by Paul at Visual Products. Good mounts and accessories. It's been a few years since its last lubrication so I think that should be refreshed. S16 ACL II kit package includes... - ACL II camera body, #2730 (Visual Products full S16 conversion), - Heavy duty 75fps motor, all crystal speeds, mirror parking, #2954, - Replacement electronic mother board for motor, - 3x200' magazines (2 are S16), with caps, late model with small insert pressure plate over gate, #s D128, D249, and D98, - Kinoptik viewfinder, #95675 - ACL/PL adaptor - ACL/Arri SB adaptor - AZ Spectrum video assist, B&W, SN417, with power cable, - PL front cap, C mount front cap, DIY Arri-B front cap, 2x gate protectors, - 15mm rod base (with cutouts for switch access), rods with extensions (Les B.) - Factory top handle, - Anatomical hand grip with on-off, - Barney, a little tight with a 400' mag, - Battery power cables..Jaeger/Canon XLR4, 2x short ones for on-board, 2x long spiral, - 4 on-board battery packs, NiCad cells. One pack may be OK. I'm assuming the buyer will want to recell with NiMhi. - Eclair quick charger (NiCad), 4) 3x400' French ACL mags, (seeking offers). https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ycbv8azk5q3xih4/AABZgXIWIb7vXemO_QQtr8sOa?dl=0 3x 400' French mags, late model with small insert pressure plate over the gate. Quite tidy looking. Two are S16, machining looks really nice. My guess is that they will all need fresh lubrication, but that is all they should need if given CLA. These mags didn't come with the kit above, so probably selling them separately. Label and serial numbers are... - Pat 1 #SD-503, with cap, S16, - Pat 2 #SD-296, with cap, S16, - FR3 #SC-797, no cap,

Eclair ACL II kit and 3x400' mags for sale I'm selling most of, possibly all of, my Eclair ACL gear....An almost new ACL II kit, and separately, 3x400' French mags. I just have too many, especially unfinished, projects (sailplane development, velomobile design... house falling apart). So I have to let some things go. I may keep my spare ACLII body and motor to build another kit. I am keeping my Bolexs and an old 35mm Cineflex. Moving pictures, akin to graphic art, painting, conceptual sculpture are the real kernel that may remain. It's difficult to set a price, so for now I'm seeking offers. The only useful reference I can find on price is a recent eBay sale for USD5K, eBay item number:266036424167 (I'll paste a link down below). But that kit was more used and less well optioned. Meanwhile people on the forum have advertised their XTRs at north of 20K and 27K. We can start a sidebar somewhere on the relative value or usefulness of these cameras. All the interesting questions and any sidebars into Eclair esoterica belong on this thread, but I will advertise on the Cinemarketplace thread..... https://cinematography.com/index.php?/forums/topic/98122-eclair-acl-ii-kit-and-3x400-mags-for-sale/ Direct message me with any offers or serious enquiries. 3) S16 ACL II kit, (seeking offers). Sold, pending payment, $8000 (with 1x400', 2x200' S16 mags) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iv95oerahx3929f/AADPd-7BkrctDPv78WjwtDlDa?dl=0 S16 ACL II kit in almost new condition. I didn't get to use it. The guy I got it from (Chris Squires), when he got it I don't know if it had ever been used, it still had the Eclair factory test film with it. He shot a couple of short films with it. Anyway, looks brand new. Conversion was started by Les Bosher then done over and finished by Paul at Visual Products. Good mounts and accessories. It's been a few years since its last lubrication so I think that should be refreshed. S16 ACL II kit package includes... - ACL II camera body, #2730 (Visual Products full S16 conversion), - Heavy duty 75fps motor, all crystal speeds, mirror parking, #2954, - Replacement electronic mother board for motor, - 3x200' magazines (2 are S16), with caps, late model with small insert pressure plate over gate, #s D128, D249, and D98, - Kinoptik viewfinder, #95675 - ACL/PL adaptor - ACL/Arri SB adaptor - AZ Spectrum video assist, B&W, SN417, with power cable, - PL front cap, C mount front cap, DIY Arri-B front cap, 2x gate protectors, - 15mm rod base (with cutouts for switch access), rods with extensions (Les B.) - Factory top handle, - Anatomical hand grip with on-off, - Barney, a little tight with a 400' mag, - Battery power cables..Jaeger/Canon XLR4, 2x short ones for on-board, 2x long spiral, - 4 on-board battery packs, NiCad cells. One pack may be OK. I'm assuming the buyer will want to recell with NiMhi. - Eclair quick charger (NiCad), 4) 3x400' French ACL mags, (seeking offers). One 400' S16 mag sold, pending payment, still undecided if I will sell the rest. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ycbv8azk5q3xih4/AABZgXIWIb7vXemO_QQtr8sOa?dl=0 3x 400' French mags, late model with small insert pressure plate over the gate. Quite tidy looking. Two are S16, machining looks really nice. My guess is that they will all need fresh lubrication, but that is all they should need if given CLA. These mags didn't come with the kit above, so probably selling them separately. Label and serial numbers are... - Pat 1 #SD-503, with cap, S16, - Pat 2 #SD-296, with cap, S16, - FR3 #SC-797, no cap, This is the link to the ACL 1.5 sold on eBay, item number:266036424167, (I messaged the seller to get the sale price) https://www.ebay.com/itm/266036424167?hash=item3df101ade7:g:P5IAAOSwDT5jlfta&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoGHF1cBoZJdD%2BiRbyHvpUojfoH%2BEOYnfEQVYU7aAoV%2FeovlFRCfnMKGQmDAwxV10vlA1n4MyvlmQ8aBmBs3GgDyxQjRD8Qpbfq3g1mcw1iW1z2wD7kGt01VF5gXmJyxHbWDsUxjJB%2BfAiNyyZC3gmn7Qk%2BqAiPiqKzmqGBRbtkyfDz5M5ljLRekC6UKAtWoDJ%2ByV%2BogtXQc4Z2UVmNmbUqs%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9SlrtSnYQ&autorefresh=true

The ACL I with the early periscope VFs sat more to the rear on your shoulder, better balance. The "eyepiece" on the finder was almost of zero length, the diopter adjustment being effected by shifting VF body horizontally. In contrast, the orientable Angenieux and Knoptic VFs have long eyepieces that shift the camera forward.... I'm wondering if a simple forward translation of the VF is possible. The drawings attached suggest it may be. The sideways translation of the VF to accommodate the added mirrors is shown as a guess (the red box). It's the same width as an AZ Spectrum video tap. Of course the standard tap has to go, so maybe the hard part of this whole mod exercise will be designing the inclusion of the prism etc that a tap will need. Unfortunately, I don't yet have a grasp on the theoretical optics, to guess on the one or two added elements that may be needed. If anyone wants to contribute, or give me a leg up on that, please do. The mod housing may be simple, similar to the red box in the drawing, with two mirrors in it. Easy to make. Depends on where and how the added optical element(s) are placed. The VF mounting screws on the camera body will get more stress. Thread inserts would help. Visual Products put those in when they mod for S16. So some cameras already have them.

Looks enormous fun..!!

Hey Brennan, I may be. I just sent you a PM. Find the messages icon on the upper right.

Alexander, Just look at the cheapest way....thanks. Gregg.

Sold. I'll take those, if you don't mind shipping to New Zealand. I guess we better check what that costs first. Can you? Talk soon, Gregg.

I had this on eBay for about 3 weeks or so and it didn't sell. I forgot about it for a while. This time, before relisting I cleaned the body properly, repainted the red focus marks, put good vinyl labels on the lens cap and took better photos. Someone was selling one for 3000 Pounds (USD3570) so I raised the price, got a bid half an hour after listing. https://www.ebay.com/itm/155427453867

Sam, Did you or someone else mention the A minima. The ACL with 200' mags is very compact and quite light. No funny business with the plastic spools. Though you can run 200' metal spools. Gregg.