Alexandre de Tolan

Hello David and thank you for chiming in. Bellow is a link to a "film thesis" made by a mate I've met at Royal College of Arts in London, the college where he did his PhD: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2234249/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 I know that there are several more. In Europe at least, almost every renowned college offers a PhD by practice program nowadays. The film I'm mentioning here is for sale on DVD. I'm going to see if I can put my hands at the paper which accompanied that film thesis. Thank you Mark, but I think David is wright on this one. That is a very generic topic. It must be a much more constricted one for this purpose.

Dear all, After many years of camera operating I've been invited to lecture in a cinema course on a local college, and to increase the chances of being hired next year (and thereafter), I've been advised to pursue a PhD. I've written my 300 page Master thesis about 15 years ago, and I remember that it was a painful process for me. I'm a much more practice than a writer kind of guy. For some time now, Bologna implement Masters and PhDs by practice. Yes, they have to be accompanied by a written document that justifies the thesis demonstrated by practice, but nothing comparable to a 500 page thesis. This seems a brilliant opportunity for me to enrol on a PhD and direct my first movie. Yes, a thesis movie but a movie nonetheless. I'm now turning to this community for anyone who feels that can, and want to share with me what can be a thesis idea for a PhD in Cinematography by Practice. I know that this is not a common topic on here and probably is an odd one, but any ideas will be welcome and appreciated. Thank you all in advance, Alex

One more thing. Do panning shots need tracking marks or only tracking shots need them?

I have more than 20 years operating a camera and now and then someone turns to me to DP some project or as a second unit DP. Today was one of those days when some director came to me asking to DP a commercial. I said yes even though it's going to be a first time DPing on a green screen, so I'm a bit nervous. The set has 43 meters (roughly 150 feet) by 18 (59 feet). The lighting grid is 7 meters (23 feet), off ground and they have all lighting requirements I can ask for. The set will be dress by the Art Direction with some walls where a couple of guys will be Parkouring. The action will be shot 60p and 150p, so about 1 1/2 stop difference. My initial thoughts are to put a bunch of space lights in the grid to light the green screen evenly. They will be on dimmers to dim them down for 1/120 and up for 1/300 shutter speeds. Then backlight/Kick the action with HMIs through frame diffusion (I was thinking LEE 250 to give it some edge), and bouncing that light into the actors with Ultrabounce. Questions for the experienced in these situations out there: Hang the space lights only behind the action or also above it to raise exposure levels? How can I avoid green spill on the action? Push it as must as possible from the green screen? I believe that the Art Direction will also be greening the ground where the fake walls will sit. Use Minus green on the HMIs to separate the action? How many stops difference have the green screen to read comparing to the bounced light on the actors or even the edge/back light on them? I'm under the impression that this will be shot on a Sony F55, S-Log3, so ISO 1250 base exposure. Any suggestions are greatly welcome, even on different lighting approaches. Thank you in advance.

Nobody picks them. That's why they suffered a major price drop recently. As the OP I was just interested in hearing what forum users think about them. I'm not planning to buy lenses. I have a full set of Zeiss primes and I'm very happy with them.

I suppose this aren't the same exact glass found on their other lenses. The most obvious difference is flare characteristics for instance. I agree that it's a risky move from Rokinon since the obvious choice seems to buy used Zeiss glass. I'm not so sure about L glass. I've shot some projects on L glass (mainly chosen by the DP), and never grew fond of it. They were announced to sell for about 2500USD each but since then rumours went out saying that they can actually end up being sold for half that price tag. At 1250USD I find them a steal and I can see many small production companies to invest on them. I personally have a set of Zeiss ZFs (18 | 21 | 25 | 35 | 50 | 85) and the added mods (de-click, cine fronts and machined gear rings), makes my lenses more expensive than Xeens. Of course one could say that Zeiss glass is better (and I agree), but the added comfort on set (no need to adjust follow focus and matteboxes, and longer focus throw), makes for a hard decision when picking these new, and then... They will also be even cheaper used.

Great. Only wish deals like these would come up in Europe. That would save a lot on shipping and customs charges. That alone would make for all upgrading needs that was already mentioned in this thread.

Today handed me over 2 LED fixtures from a Chinese manufacturer to give them a try. When I first put them at work I instantly noticed a visible green shift in them. Picked up my Colormaster 3F and it measured the Led fixtures at 9750K!!! The meter asked for a +75 Mired shift to color correct it to 5500K and a CC25 Magenta. That's almost a full Minus Green. I've done a quick photo of my wife and her skin tone was way off. Tomorrow I'm going to try it with a half CTS and full minus green and compare results. Lee declares 70% transmission for half CTS and 60% transmission on Minus Green. That's about 1.3 Stops loss on filters alone for a fixture that measured 800 lux at 3 meters on my Sekonic 758 Cine. The guy who bought them gave 600 USD for 2 units which I find expensive for what they are. But he seems happy with the acquisition.

From Chroma Q website: Key Features 575W 6000°K hot restrike lamp with high colour rendition Based around the rugged and familiar ETC Source 4 Par Supplied with colour frame and a set of lenses Integrated flicker free DMX controlled PSU enables remote on, off and lamp economy mode features 2200 hour lamp option also available As Phil, "wishing I were a few thousand miles closer to Glens Falls, New York", but since I'm not (and live in a 220V country), doesn't the ballasts run on 110V only?

I've seen that Mark is using the Area 48 Remote Phosphor Softlights from BBS. I've worked with them and stand by them as a great soft light. I think remote phosphor has a lot to offer and yet it's still in their newborn days. Area 48 lights are not cheap but they have a great efficiency and color rendition.

I know that's a early call to start to make assumptions. For what it seems there's only a few pre-production units out there but I assume that they will not change much from there. Picking up from the images that I've seen online it seems a good addition to the market. For the price tag I can see many indie filmmakers building their own set. Reliability is unknown and we'll see if they pass the test of time. Comparing it to Zeiss CP.2 lenses (based only on what I've seen on the web), I find that CP.2s have an advantage in term of color rendition. Skin tones are rendered more neutral and beautiful in the Zeiss system than in the Rokinon one. I also find the bokeh more nervous on the Xeen lenses, especially when full wide open. On the other hand, and relying on the tests I've seen, it seems that the Korean brand has less contrast than Zeiss. This can be an advantage in cheaper cameras which have a more restrict dynamic range to work with. They don't flare as well. Personally I'm very fond of the flare characteristics found on Zeiss lenses but for others that don't like their lenses to flare Xeen could be a good choice, and a cheap one. They also seem to breath less than CP.2s. All in all we're talking about half the price for Xeen lenses when compared to Zeiss. One can build a full set of 6 primes with the same cash spent on a 3 set from Zeiss. Curiously Sony has cut the price of their Cinealta lenses since no one has any interest on them. Let's see how Rokinon will turn out.

Shame on you :) Everybody should have a friend ;) The problem with color charts is that they don't drink bear :)

As told previously, the Zone system was primarily developed taking final printing into consideration. Ansel Adams was THE Editor (with capital E), par excellence (albeit not literally since he had his private printer), in the photography world. One of his most famous quotes were: "You don't take a photograph, you make it", and he was talking about the enormous post production process involved on every of his photos after he'd press the button, and that was where the Zone System resided. I advise you to make a simple but effective exercise for you to better understand it's basics: 1. Grab a still DSLR. 2. Put it in monochrome mode (it's easier since you're going to see the luminance results better and put the chrominance details aside). 3. Ask 2 of your friends to bear a minute with you. Ask one to dress a white shirt and the other to wear a black one. Put the 2 under the same light. 4. Put the camera in AUTO mode without flash. Choose your ISO but let it determine the aperture and shutter speed automatically. 5. Fill the picture with the white shirt and shoot. 6. Now fill the picture with the black shirt and shoot. You will find that both will be represented in a medium grey (for what the reflected camera meter is calibrated). That is your Zone V. Now: 7. If you want your friend's white shirt to appear white with some detail, you will have to expose for more 4 stops than the automatic measure told you (Zone 9). 8. If you want your friend's black shirt to appear black with some detail, you will have to expose for less 3 stops than the automatic measure told you (Zone 2). Bear in mind that - as also told by some members previously - Zone 9 and 2 will vary and will depend on your system (digital), or your stock (film). An Alexa with a 15 Stop DR will put it's black retaining detail exposing for far less than 3 stops for instance. Also bear in mind that digital and film will be exposed under the known rule that one is exposed for highlight and the other for shadows. Both will respond differently at those two extremes so if you want to put the Ansel Adams theory to work you will need to know your medium and/or your camera as the back of your hand, so that you can expose properly taking the post production into account. Relating all this to film, make a google search on how printer lights work with a film print. It's perhaps your next step to understand the validity of such thinking when you are exposing your stock. When you talk digital, all the camera and lens tests that any decent DP conducts prior to any shooting will relate not only with the best tools to use within the storytelling but also to know it's limits and to account for the DI and post production process. That is to say, take into account the finished process before it even begins, and that is what the Zone System is all about.

What Phil is saying is that HMI lighting is not "constant" on the RGB spectrum as a tungsten light for instance. Like fluorescents, HMIs have a kind of "spike" (sorry but I'm not a native English speaker and son't know how to explain it in other words), on their RGB spectrum that renders them a unique color caracter on how they debit red, green and blue.

Thank you for the update. Went through the whole thread and aside the personal notes on digital vs film I've found that many are as suspicious as I am. Good to know that I'm not that alone... Or crazy :)

I'm trying to catching up on my ASC magazine morning reading and realized that Deakins and Villeneuve are teaming for a Blade Runner sequel!!! Not that I have something against these two. I love Deakins work. I've mixed feelings about Sicario at the time but Prisoners was a great film. Now... Blade Runner. This is a HUGE responsibility. I don't care what fans have to say on how Lucas smashed - or not (so they say) - his beautifully made Star Wars IV, V and VI with that mambo jambo Colombian soap opera that were episodes I, II and III (and I don't have anything against Colombian people! I have a Colombian sister and 3 beautiful Colombian nieces). But lets face it. Scott and Cronenweth work is on a universe of its own. Star Wars can have all the bells and whistles (and certainly the first films deserves them), but Blade Runner is a film of a very distinct breed. In my very very humble opinion it stamped such a high mark in every respect that I'll find it very very difficult to even reach it, let alone exceed it. One thing is for sure. Every cinematography forum will have a blast commenting and comparing (if that's possible), the work of two of the greatest artists of all time. For some reason though, I feel that Deakins starts somewhat from a disadvantage position, albeit being one of the most brilliant DPs today.

A quick look into B&H catalogue - ordered by ascending price - revealed that only 200W Jokers are cheaper than Hive Lights. That and the Chinese lights that they are selling through the brand "Came TV". Didn't know that even B&H sells them. I ask how they handle warranties. Noticed the new Mole-Richardson Senior LED selling for about 4400USD. It's out of our budget but it seems like a fantastic piece of gear. Can't seem to find any European seller though.

It's not cheap but oddly I'm in trouble to find an alternative that outputs that kind of light for that kind of money (excluding the obvious HMI knock offs mentioned on another thread of this forum). HID PARs do not have that efficiency (taking into consideration that every photometric chart is correct), and HMI also have hot-restart issues. At the moment - and considering all options that we've been talking about here (aside building our own HMI) - this Hive light doesn't seem so bad. Went to Cool Lights since you've mentioned one of their products. It looks great. Shame that they don't offer a big brother of that 150 CDM Fresnel like a 2K tungsten equivalent CDM.

Yes. You're right. Nonetheless it was the only one [generator] that the Gaffer could put his hands on at the "end of the world" where populations don't know what the word electricity means. At the end of the day were the cheap knock off lights that have put the film together.

Not quite! ARRI signed a contract with Danish Brother Brother and Sons for all their LED ballast fixtures and they are done outside Germany for some time now. Not saying that BBS isn't a high standard company, which it is, but nonetheless made outside Germany and ARRI themselves. As for the "subject matter" of this thread I have to say that I'm with Phil here. Everything is prone to failure. Yes, some things more than others but just for the sake of an argument, last year I was operating in a feature shot in a remote Guiné Bissau location and all (and I mean all), the Jokers we've had have fried in the first day of shooting. The DP went to light the whole film on cheap Indian LED fixtures, and they worked!

I think we can stretch that far. I went looking into it after your post and it really seems a very nice light. I never seen one working but I like the fact that it's a such small source so it will most likely throw hard shadows. Not having that option is what is keeping us away from LED fixtures like the Hilio D12. Nonetheless I'm a bit skeptical buying a fixture for this kind of money that I've never seen at work, and it seems that it's not sold where I'm working right now (which has been a mix between Spain and Portugal for some time now). From the photometric chart I can see a tiny advantage over ARRI's M8. Joker's 800 has a much higher output with no lens on it but looses with it's first lens (the medium). Never worked with an M8 but comparing it to Joker Bugs will be better for me since they have been our HMI workhorses for some years now.

Ouch, ouch! How can someone sell a fixture for that kind of money with a CRI spec like that?

Resurrecting this thread since I continue in this quest for the "perfect" light for our project. I did not now of AADyntech (probably because I cannot find anything from them in Europe, even when searching on the internet), but realized that they make some very interesting LED fixtures with huge amounts of light output from a LED light. The Jab 2 Variable seems a great fixture (that we could consider if the Dollar/Euro conversion was back to 2011, due to our budget constraints). They don't give specifics on CRI though. Does anyone ever used one of their lights? And does anyone knows of an European manufacturer that sells something like this? Danish BBS lights - although quite good - are way less powerful.

Hi Peter, Thank you for your reply. I've download your Platinum Blonde spec sheet and compared its photometric chart with both ARRI M18 (with 1.2K bulb), and K5600 Joker Bug 800. I have to say that it's almost on par with ARRI's being slightly less efficient but at a fraction of the cost. Well done. The Joker is visibly less efficient for the same beam angle but as the added advantage of a possible narrow beam than the Platinum to increase it's flux (besides all known accessories that turn Jokers into great lighting options). The ARRI is way out of our budget. The Platinum and the Joker are somewhat in the same ball park price with the added advantage that you are based in Europe so import charges will be zero. Anyway, both would be stretching our budget beyond what we first planned but I sincerely thank you for giving us another option to consider about. Phil, HMIs are somewhat prone to spikes as you state but we can't dismiss the fact that they still are the best way to "manufacture" sunlight, and with the added benefit of modern higher sensitivity cameras even small HMIs can produce beautiful effects. That's why we first thought of an HMI fixture for us. Ideally, someone would already had the ideia to produce a Beam LED light powerful enough to put Christian Berger's CRLS system lighting techniques to work with modern cameras, thus discarding the big and costly Panibeam light. I have to say that I never lighted that way but love the ideia of lighting trough controlled reflectors without light spilling issues. No flags, no cutters, no light loss in between. Lovely ideia. As I see, Litepanels have tried to shape their Hilio D12 output with something similar using nanoptics filters. Anyway, as I told Peter, for how much we'd liked to buy an HMI out of the shelf we haven't the means to do so. That's why we turned our heads to Hilio. It's raw output is compared to an 575w HMi. It has the added benefit of dimming to 0% without color shifts, it runs cooler, draws only 350w of power from an outlet and LEDs last forever, but since it still costs about 2500USD I'm going to send you a PM and ask for your guidance trough the adventure of assembling a 575w HMI as you did (if you don't mind). I've done a quick search for Chinese ballasts on Ebay and didn't found any cheaper than 500USD though.

According Ansel Adams, middle grey is in the middle of a "geometric scale of black to white" in a printed image. That means 50% grey. 18% does not refer to grey "directly" but to the reflectance properties of a surface. A Kodak grey card reflects 18% of the light which falls upon it.