Diego Treves

thanks, that's what I was asking. I had already browsed that website but I wasn't able to locate anything helpful. I'll look that up

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I'm sorry, can anyone find a similar page in the present Matthews site, since this link is blind? thanks

Sorry guys, say that I don't want to spend so much money on an original silk tissue, like the ones provided by Matthews or similar producers, which kind of fabric should I look for if I want to build one by my own? I'll build the frame and buy the fabric, which fabric should I look for exactly?

I remebmer a YT clip showing this method ..

ah ah: I found it!! Thanks programmers!!!! https://www.google.it/search?num=100&q=exposure+reflected+light+site%3Aplay.google.com&oq=exposure+reflected+light+site%3Aplay.google.com&gs_l=serp.3...96668.101345.0.101539.20.20.0.0.0.0.304.2194.2j12j1j1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..20.0.0.dkKxIYuuDlI

Hello Fellows, I usually try to get a discrete amount of information before posting any question on the forum, trying to answer myself my own doubts. In this case I didn't have much time and all I found was inadequate. So please excuse me if I am writing things already discussed. please follow my chain of assumptions and feel free to break it (gently and with style please) when I am wrong: - I am learning exposure on still camera and I've been spending the last few days trying to build a little personal vocabulary of typical exposure situations: with the aid of a surprisingly decent light-meter app installed on my android phone, I've been walking around like a ghost-buster taking notes of the readings I got in different ambients. And I noticed that it was predictably real close to those LV scales you can find out there on the internet. (which, of course, are quite approximate) I've been even thinking about buying a cheap dedicated luxmeter on amazon (considering that my phone app may not be calibrated) but I stopped. And here is why: As we all know, exposure of a given picture you are trying to take with your camera, changes accordingly not only to incident light, but also to reflected light. This means that framing the same subject under the same lighting condition but with a different change in framing may call for an exposure compensation. Let me explain myself with the aid of a basic visual example, since english is not my first language: the exposure compensation indicator on this digital camera shows correct exposure at first and then signals slight over or under-exposure (+1/3, -1/3) consequently to small changes in the framing composition. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwUoRCRkAqNHeWF2cjEteVZsSzA/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwUoRCRkAqNHMjduaFpXMGdNMmM/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwUoRCRkAqNHNzFiZXhyYXE5bWs/view?usp=sharing We explain this because of course more light "enters" the frame and consiquently we need to compensate for that. But I don't think a digital camera (or a film camera or whatever) may be able to actually measure the light. My idea is that the camera gives an average reading of the frame according to the "colors" which show in the frame, comparing them to that ideal 18% gray assumed as ideal average exposure. Is that right? More black is less lighr, more white is more light, more exposure. Now this seems true (and confirmed) for me also according to expensive exposure-meters. When you need to measure the reflected light, say, of a distant object like shown in this youtube review of a high end sekonic exposure-meter https://youtu.be/4C5s8bapVEs?t=10m56s I don't believe that the instrument actually measures the reflected light (not from that distance of course and not for that price): my idea is that it gives a reading of what it sees based on a color-comparison, as I said before. Now, if that's true, and this is the point of my topic, it should be quite easy to have a similar application for a smart-phone!! That would mean you could frame a given suject with you phone and get a reading of that scene (expressed in lux, or whatever kind of value) WITHOUT buying one of those expensive exposure-meters. you could perform the same exact task of the exposure meter in reflected ambient mode simply with your phone, just as in the YT clip .. what do you say about that?

as I said @ donedealpro discussion board, the problem with these analysis is that they offer a kind of retrospective work, pointing out the elements that worked as an outcome of some rule that's been applied. It's too easy to do that AFTER. Why haven't I come across a single book reporting the whole process of wirting a movie, from the concept to the contract. A journal, a chronicle of how a story was composed. THAT would be helpful.

Mh.. I see what you mean and I generally agree. but in my specific situation I dont know if that fits. I still need to learn the basics: I am almost starting from scratch. The more I think about it, the more I am persuaded that I should be starting by myself, with small tasks at first. Attending a workshop class should probably be a susequent step, like an improvement. Anyway I will try and post the gear they have and show in their page. Surely its all good, I have no doubt about that. as I told you my concerns are more "ethical".

Yesterday I came across a focus pulller operator workshop class which will be held here in Italy, starting next February. The class will have a duration of two (2) weekends, so I guess about 8 hours per day for two consecutive week ends, 4 days totally. I haven't had access to the detailed schedule yet but I assume, comparing to similar Labs they provide, that it won't be two full days: so may be the first day (say on saturday) you will get 8 hours and the second one maybe something less. It will be pretty much intense anyway, I guess. Now, I don't want to attach a link to this school because they didn't act very professionally so far, based on a e-mail exchange we had yesterday, so I don't want to provide any sort of publicity to what they do. But I was wondering: is a kind of class like this one really helpful? I mean, of course learning always is, and especially learning from working professionals and by the aid of professional gear, but how much can you really learn from a 4-days class? Especially assuming that you won't be doing focus pulling from the very beginning, but you will probably be introduced with the different kind of cameras and the kind of gear you will be using, during the first hours. And then take into account that you won't be alone: some other students will be there with you and you'll probably have to take turns to operate the camera, and so on. So I guess that by the end of the course you will have a basic operative knowledge of focus pulling, a few hours of field experience (if you're lucky), but I definitely guess you won't be absolutely "ready for work", not even for a small short with friends!! May be youl'll be able to recognise a real follow focus when you see one on the set: that's more likely. Now of course I am a bit exaggerating here, but I really don't like this way of doing business, which is very common in the educational field here in Italy: aware of the huge appeal that some areas or activities may bear, some kind of people tend to give very little for a very high price, and usually to naif and passionate young girls and boys who would like to learn more or, in most cases, learn a profession for their futures. I am not saying there's a scam going on: of course you can always ask for information before applying for a class, and it is your duty indeed to do so, so that you know what you are paying for, but the information they provide is not always clear, not from the beginning at least. (the description they provide for the course on their internet page is very vague, and smells like the usual "resumé-upsizing kind of language") And, most importantly, what you pay for is definitely overpriced for the kind and quantity of training you get, in my opinion. Professional education and training is a very strong business here, and what you get is not always worth what you pay for, especially if you consider that, partly due to a peculiar job situation, partly to a typical italian mindset, the very same people who train you (which are usually working professionals), don't really care about being helpful to introduce you to the job, usually because this may conflict with their own interests. I guess it's not the same in United States, probably because that kind of harsh competition for work that we are experiencing now in the last five-ten years, you already had quite some years ago. Italy is a very cinical country at the present time. Some time ago I was listening to an interview to comedian Steve Kaplan for Film Courage (YT channel) and it struck me when, demanded to provide some advice to beginner writers, he finally said: ".. and then you can alway ask. I mean here in Los Angeles people are happy if they can help other people." WHAT???? That's completely impossible for Italy. There's a really strange approach to these matters in this country. A discussion board like this one for example, where trained and working professionals will answer your questions or curiosities, actually advancing your expertise and knowledge on the job, is quite inconceivable. And there is none in fact. Anyway, let me go back to the topic now. what I want to ask is: - except that I will be training on professional gear, - except that I will receive some kind of theoretical and technical background, will it really be helpful taking a short class like this one, if my ultimate goal is to actually learn to pull focus on the field, not just simply knowing how focus pulling works? I mean: let me say again I don't know the price of this specific course, but I can guess it will be between 500€ and 800€: can't I buy some decent gear for the same price and practice on my own? I know you can't buy a dslr AND a follow focus AND a good shoulder rig AND a good external display with that money, but a dear friend of mine already owns a good dslr camera and wants to learn shooting too. So I was thinking we could split the costs, buy some basic stuff on amazon and start practicing during week ends, taking turns alternatively: shooting and focus pulling. I know it's not the same as working with professional gear in a supervised milieu, where a teacher oversees your job and corrects your mistakes, but how much experience can you really get from a 4-day training? I guess focus pulling, as well as camera shooting, is mostly about experience, about practice. And by the way, I was reading some days ago a nice discussion on this board, which I cant find now, where an experienced assistant operator was explaining how the job is changing at the present time: how more and more you are asked to focus pull from the external monitor, sometimes disregarding or ignoring completely the marks you made for the actors, provided you had time to do that. And I can understand that: partly because, as he said, new directors don't even know these procedure and routines, partly because you don't always have much time, and partly because the nature of the shot may cause your marks to be completely useless (correct me if I am wrong). So this all tells me even more how much an extended practice is critical to this specific job.. What do you think, what's your opinion? thanks for reading

ops.. last reply before rebump was five years old .. <_<

I've read this book some years ago which I found very useful, bearing actual reference to a classic movie: Alfred Hitchcock's Notorious. it's a very discreet and plain book: the author just breaks down one or two scenes from the movie and tries and anylize how staging and camera work are made in order to express what the scene is about. And then in the following chapters the contrary is done as wekll: you begin from a given short story and you are guided through a step-by-step construction of the shooting, always with regards to camera movement and some staging. I may miss something but this is what I remember as the main focus. it's called Film Directing Fundamentals by Nicholas T. Proferes. Focal Press edition. I am not a director so my POV is very limited but I like this kind of more practical/exercise approach; and I think that while a more speculative one, like the ones mentioned before, will broaden your mind and give you a larger perspective on the job, being able to identify and exploit some basic tools of your routine is something very helpful too. Then you can may be check out any cahiers by russian director Sergej Ejzenstejn http://www.bookdepository.com/author/Sergej-M-Ejzenstejn

I am replying without reading others' replies first. But the definition you are giving of Narcissism is more of a technical definition, like a psychological one: like highlighting all the traits of a narcissistic personality. What common people refer to when they judge someone as a narc. are more rough and less subtle features, not listening to anyone else's opinion being perhaps one of them. So, in your case, I would say that it's more likely you'd be called a narc. for your self-sufficiency on the job than for your dependency to other people's opinion. According to what you said of course

Which iPhone almost costs the same ah ah Bo, I have one of those apps and it completely does not work. Thanks anyway for the answer

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I am not expert but as far as I know, italian Snc is one of the best and it should cost around 1500/year

Thanks very much very helpful I was afraid you didnt reply anymore as I had put too much in this topic probably. Now that I think Ive gathered enough information, what I need to do is take a while and realize what I really want in this field, what i really want to achieve. thanks for the moment

Ok thanks, I need to practice all this, so that it becomes immediate knowledge. And by the way I was thinking: if I buy a roll of diffuser (I've been watching that demo clip on YT by Lee Filters performed on that beautiful model and I have to say that I like very much the 216 full white and the 129 full frost if I recall correctly- they have a very similar effect in that case.) So if I buy a roll of diffuser(lets say the 216 because the frost feels to me somewhat more specific) I will be able to draw cuts of maximum "X" by 1,22 metres. which is good, you can have a 4x4 feet frame which you can use to play with. At that point the problem would be finding enough light to fill it all, and at this stage all I have is three 500w construction projectors, which won't probably be enough. Adding a full CTB AND some white diffuser to a 500w projector I am afraid will result in such a small amount of light that wont be enough even for a photografic portrait ...

Thanks very helpful advice, I didnt know you could detect green spikes with a color meter, I thought more of a specific tool for that

Thanks I didnt think of that. While I knew waveform monitors existed I wasnt aware at all of how a calibrated monitor could help. -------------------

Thanks for your replies, I would like to answer in better detail but I am on mobile right now. So I got it, it's not that crucial if you have a deep expertise and a wide set of tools like gels,wave monitors and the like. The problem being that filter gel are appr. 80$ a roll (!) So I guess a beginner like me cant rely on a wide array to choose from. in the end I should probably buy one of those "master location pakcs" with different colors in smaller cuts (like 50x60) and start practicing with that, making this one my attempt at building your personal vocabulary. let me ask you something: I understand that the strenght and the quality of your diffusion comes from the size of the light source: so if you want to have an even diffed light you cant certainly apply a small frame of gel to your lights; but on the other hand such a rule doesn't apply to color correction/conversion gels, meaning that you can surely apply a small frame of gel to your light and get the same result if you had applied a large one. So .. it means I can buy Master Location Pack and use the small gels for color correction, while I need a larger area for diffusion, am I right? I need to understand this to get a figure of how much I need in terms of money to start practicing, keeping in mind that learning to light isnt all and that I'll still need to learn how to move camera accurately and confidently, so probably also other basic staff (like a fluid head and a small camera) should be included into the list .. (and having really no cash) ..

I have little knowledge and basically no experience in light and scene lighting. But I want to learn, so a few question arose. First of which: how can you not want to use a color meter? I know I could be wrong (and that’s the reason why I am asking, because I am sure I am missing something) but how can you light a scene exposed to natural sun light if you don’t have a color meter? In the library I usually attend there is a very large room with ceiling fluos and very large windows (ten of them). I was thinking: say you want to shoot your scene here, even if you can guess the right corrections to make in order to match fluorescent lights (which are old and quite greenish, but this is another issue) with your Hmis or Kinos AND with the windows (or whatever solution you may choose ok) HOW can you DISREGARD the shifting light coming from the windows at different hours in the day ? How can you simply state that daylight is 5600K and be satisfied with that? What happens if you shoot the same scene at 12.00 am before launch break and then again at 15:00? I guess you’ll have two different color temperatures, so you need to check that and apply the necessary corrections I guess.. And how can you do that without an instrument of any sort? Can you just guess? Will you be satisfied with this approach, will you consider it professional? Or can you say that a certain amount of experience on the field is all it takes to get it right? And even if you go ahead and decide you can have some uncontrolled mix in the color temperature, how can you know how much is enough? A, say, 100k shift in the 3200k range of the nm scale will be more or less noticeable than a 100k shift in the 5500k range?? And why is that? How can you monitor that without a proper instrument? So again: I am conflicted because at this stage I am I consider a color meter as a crucial tool, basically because I don’t like that kind of street-wise attitude which disrespects deep and technical knowledge. I want to build a solid expertise and I believe that building your own vocabulary in terms of typical situations and settings (and what color temperature natural light usually provides in given situations) should be a right first step to take. But I am conflicted because color meters are really very very expensive. So my point is: either everyone approaching scene lighting buys a color meter (and I don’t think this is the case), or they mostly disregard it. But then once again, how can they be sure of what they do on the set? How can they meet precise directors’ guidelines and requests in terms of look and color if they can’t exactly predict and govern the color of their lights (I am always talking about situations where you have to deal with natural light mixed with your own lights of course). How can they be accurate? I know light “color” is just a part of the whole “dealing-with-light” scenario, but it seems unforgivable to me that you are a dp and you cant have full control of your tools (light being one) on your scene.. So at this point I’d appreciate your advice on this. Thanks for reading and sorry for bad english