Nick Collingwood

Agreed David. My results below were fantastic from GRD. Almost 16mm if I stabilized it a bit more. But sharp as hell! Looks fantastic. For another project I got scanned at GRD, the client thought it was almost too sharp. Ha. He was used to getting crappy SD telecines. But this is so much more true to the format and how it looks projected. I got some Ektachrome and Provia 100D scanned by Pro8mm at 4k and while it was really sharp, I think the GRD scans were better and easier to grade. Have yet to post those online yet. You're definitely right about spending a decent amount of time color grading. Sometimes Premiere's Auto Color ain't half bad but other times it's insane. But worth the time spent in the end. Also I shot the below Vision3 500T in a Nizo 801M in auto therefore exposing at 160T and got it scanned at 2k at CineLab and was pleasantly surprised at how well it still came out. Definitely noisy but still not bad for 500T in beach daylight no less... So much latitude! But still not quite the GRD quality I must say. I now get everything done at GRD at 2k overscan like the first film I posted. The 4k scans I've gotten from Pro8mm weren't any sharper than 2k scans but 2k was WAY better than 1080p telecine. I know the whole mantra for 4k scans is to not upscale when displaying on 4k screens but for now, the cost savings are worth it over the very marginal improvement in that situation.

Personally, I disagree Ruben. I've bought probably 8-10 Super 8 cameras over the past couples of years (from an 814XL-S and Nizo 801M to a crappy Bell & Howell or Argus-Cosina) and every single one has given me great exposures on autoexposure with various stocks, especially given the latitude of V3. I personally think that's part of the fun of Super 8; the run-and-gun style. Plus if you use an external meter you should probably also account for the ~1/2 stop light loss from the prism in Super 8 cameras as well. But like I said, I've generally always shot auto unless I needed to lock exposure for a specific purpose. Also Dave I'm not sure how you see that it's more expensive. CineLab is $15-18/roll for processing and around $17.5/roll for HD Best Light telecine or $25/roll for 2k scan (which I recommend over telecine. It's a HUGE difference). So if you buy V3 stock for $26+ processing for $18 + 2k scan for $25 that's $70 without shipping which adds probably $15 but you should be sending in multiple carts at a time to offset that cost. Pro8mm starts at $100/cart for 2k stock+process+scan packages and 1080 is at like $130 due to the telecine process needing color correction. The 2k is cheaper due to being a flat scan so less work for them. I recommend Gamma Ray Digital for scanning over anywhere else ($27.5/roll for 2k scan). It's better than anything I've gotten scanned at Pro8mm or CineLab for a number of reasons although they are all pretty solid in the end. It was easiest to grade, sharpest and also he has a special stabilizing method for Super 8's naturally shifty gate issues.

Ya sure! Honestly when I started shooting Super 8 a couple years ago, I did A LOT of reading on these forums and others and constantly typing into google "(camera name) (film stock)" in hopes that a video or forum would pop up showing that the combo would work. Even then I got mixed results. The problem being that Kodak and other companies haven't always stuck to the guidelines or changed the guidelines to stock and cartridges and the way cameras read the film over the past 40 years so it's not as user friendly as it used to be. With that said, I actually do think that nowadays they've finally smoothed it out plus Vision3 has a TON of latitude that allows one to shoot Super 8 in almost any camera and get halfway decent results. It's the overthinking that sometimes gets in the way! haha. Also I echo Chris. Pro8mm is overpriced for sure. If you look at the other thread I just commented on or search "budget super 8" (I think that's what the thread was called) which is another thread where pricing is discussed, you'll see cheaper alternatives for shooting Super 8 so that each rolls isn't quite as much of a hit to the wallet. But still not dirt cheap unfortunately. That's just Super 8...

Ha no worries. If you scroll about halfway down on either of those first pages like Mono No Aware you'll see a section called "Super 8mm" or Super 8 on buy8mmfilm. Those are the cartridges you're looking for. I used "stock" just as a catch all for film. These are no loose stock. These will plop right in your camera and you'll be good to go.

Kodak still makes 3 color negative stocks and one B&W reversal stock for Super 8. I generally order all my film via http://mononoawarefilm.com/film-stock/ or at www.buy8mmfilm.com for about $26 for color neg and $20 for B&W. Those are the cheapest suppliers out there unless you're buying large amounts from Kodak. Otherwise, you can also get stock from B&H or Adorama at $35 and $22 respectively. Pro8mm sells stock or stock+processing+scan packages as well but generally more expensive than the other options. Also Spectra Film Lab sells stock or stock+processing packages too. So you've got some options! My method is stock from mono no aware or buy8mmfilm.com then processing through CineLab near Boston then 2k scanning at Gamma Ray Digital also near Boston.

Ya you have a few things incorrect here. First. There's no 50T stock out there from Kodak. 50D is exactly that: Daylight stock. So outside there is no need for a filter. And you saying you "notched" them to disable the filter doesn't make sense. You have it backwards. Daylight cartridges come with NO notch cut so that the cartridge pushes the pin inside the camera to disable to the 85 filter from being used at all since it's already balanced for daylight. If you were cutting out a notch that would actually enable the filter to be used on daylight which is bad. If you cut a notch, enabled the filter by having the switch on "sun" and then put another 85 filter on then you were doubling down on filters that weren't even needed in the first place. Also that effectively put your ASA at like 20 (if my math is right) with a heavy orange cast. So you'd need to correct that cast in your color correction manually and not via a LUT. and need a lot of light which also would account for the underexposure. I think you may have been reading up on how Vision2 was notched which was incorrect on Kodak's part. Vision3 and I believe Pro8mm notch everything correctly now so that the auto exposure will be fine. As far as the filter, if you don't want to use the internal filter, that only applies to 200T and 500T stock and you don't need to modify anything. Just set the filter to bulb when outside then screw on your filter and you'll be fine, even with autoexposure as the camera meters through the lens. Hope that helps!

The Reflecta is probably your best best for that budget. The $300 scanner is garbage. Otherwise the Retroscan Universal is the only option I believe. But it's around $4500. It's probably the best you can get before going to a pro lab to scan. Tony Schilling who's active over on the Super 8 forum has one and loves it.

Thanks Dave and Dan! That's probably some of the cleanest/sharpest low light I've shot. Luckily I added some light to the set up. The 814XL-S has a hell of a lens. Also the 2K scan from Gamma Ray was top notch. Best scans I've ever gotten. But Super 8 in low light does have its limits. I shot this wedding in a ridiculously low light venue where you could seriously barely see the couple with your own 2 eyes and they didn't want any other lighting so I shot on a Beaulieu 1008XL (220º shutter) at 9fps with a f1.2 lens and 500T pushed one stop. So pretty much everything one can do to help without actually adding light. It did manage to miraculously capture an image but it was grainy as all get-out so I minimized using that footage it in the edit. You can see the ceremony at around 2:35. The 814XL should probably perform similarly. Also Dan as a sidenote, I like shooting at 18fps. Keeps it true to the medium in my amateur opinion and is more budget friendly to this wallet-strapped shooter. It's a little tricky in editing sometimes but not awful.

I've only shot with the camera in bright light but I have shot with its sibling, the Canon 814XL-S and the low light capabilities are really great. Throw a cartridge of 500T in there and make sure the dial for shutter angle is on the window (shaped like a box) and not the sun so that the shutter speed is lower and you can really get some solid low light footage. I shot this is a dark loft. I've also used a 514XL and 500T and literally shot in a cave that had fairly low lighting. Autoexposure at that point just opens the aperture up all the way. Not the sharpest footage with low light but it works. But ya, I'd definitely mess around with your digital SLR first. To get comfortable with what ISO/ASA, aperture, shutter speed/shutter angle and some of that means if you want to really want to know how to understand photography and manual exposure. Super 8 can easily be shot on autoexposure though and gets great results so don't stress too much.

Whoa did Kodak back your project?? I notice your "Invitation for Kodak" reward is gone and you're now fully funded!! That's awesome!

Ya I agree with Dan. I think it'd be best to read up on the basics of photography first before shooting film, let alone Super 8, given its inherent cost. With that said, Super 8 WAS created to be fairly user friendly and you're in luck, that's a great camera. I have one myself. It should read 50D as 40 (totally fine), 200T as 160 (totally fine) and 500T as 400 (totally fine). So basically... shoot away on auto exposure. I wouldn't even worry about manual exposure at this point. Some people may scoff but I almost always shoot on autoexposure. No need for notch hacks as the latest film from Kodak (Vision3) will allow you to switch the filter out as need be. But I generally stick with it as it was originally meant. To simplify... Enable the filter while outside and disable while inside. Or you can just always have it disabled and it can be easily corrected in the scan these days.

Hmm. Maybe I have different travel thoughts but having recently acquired a Leicina Super (not RT-1) I don't know if I'd view it as a travel camera. It's fairly heavy and not super compact. Granted I'm sure plenty of people have travelled and DO travel with them but I'd prefer something smaller and lighter than that since I am usually traveling via backpack only. I haven't used it yet so perhaps in my tests it'll win me over. It definitely does have a quirk or to in its operation but what Super 8 camera doesn't? ha. I do like that it reads all film speeds although I've shot 500T at 160 due to it being a Nizo and it scanned just fine. Different strokes I guess. There's always the ultra compact Super 8 cameras out there that are barely larger than a freaking cartridge!

It means "Clean, Lubricate, and Adjust" and is generally used in regards to film cameras which are old, crusty, and dried. It's doesn't necessarily mean "repair" though. Many times old film cameras work but also the gears and mechanisms just need to be cleaned up a bit before it all grinds to a screeching halt due to decades old lube or tiny screws that need to be tightened on the inside.

Nah I never have. Vision3 negative film can be overexposed a lot and it's fine. Actually helps. So I've never worried about it. Even shot 500T at the beach metered by my Nizo at 160 and it came out fine. So I never worry about overexposure. I do use the internal 85 filter though.

Generally I shoot a lot of 200T. It is the most versatile and can be easily shot both outdoors in full sun or indoors in medium light. 50D does have smaller grain but I find it's too slow at times, especially for night shooting and 500T is great for low light but when traveling, I find it not as necessary. If you can shoot reversal 100D then definitely go for it. I haven't shot much of it but it is a gorgeous stock. and not a bad speed, especially for an XL shutter camera. You don't think the 514XL is lightweight?? I have probably 10 S8 cameras from Nizo's to Canon 814XL-S and several other random models and the 514XL is definitely the lightest and most compact and a great lens. I'm sure you could go lighter but also you'd be sacrificing image at that point. The 514XL has a great little lens. But I'm open to suggestions other cameras. I love lightweight cameras. The ones smaller than that seem to be fixed lens ultra-compacts without any control which feels like sacrificing a bit too much to me.

I guess your best bet MAY be Pro8mm who sells refurbed 310XL's as RhondaCam's which are very similar to 514XL's although the focusing is just zone, not split-image. They might refurb or CLA a 514XL for you if you find one since they are so similar. They are pretty pricey for what they are though. 310XL's for like $500 vs an eBay 514XL for maybe $100 max. I've had luck buying two off eBay. They are study little cameras.

Heikki is right. Most likely 100D. And if so, the 514XL does that perfectly. Shot a roll of Ekta 100D and Provia 100D in Vietnam and the results (especially projected) are brilliant. Also shot 200T and 500T and it was great.

Are you sitting on a stockpile of Ekta 64T? haha. Aside from that requirement, I have traveled a lot with my Canon 514XL and it's been great. It's gone with me to Vietnam and the Dominican Republic and all along a west coast road trip. Super sharp lens. Super light. 2 AA batteries. Also can use the C8-43 Wide Angle adapter which is good for travel. Split-image. It can't do 64T but it does have exposure lock. It's super basic. Otherwise the 561 Macro is a camera I've always wanted. Or even the 156 Macro which is smaller but I don't think that meters 64ASA. You can use a UWL lens with either of those. The thing about the 561 though is it uses the tiny wein-cell batteries which are available but annoying and sometimes die quickly and you literally can't meter at all without them. So that's something to consider.

Ha you and I might be the same person. I'm a motion designer who loves shooting Super 8. I'd be down to meet up sometime. I'm also always on the lookout for like minded people. You should also check out Mono No Aware. It's a non-profit cinema arts organization based in Brooklyn. I've met a lot of other Super 8 and 16mm interested people through their workshops and events. They even just had an event last Sunday at Gowanus Darkroom where you could develop any type of film (4x5, 135, 120, Super 8, 16mm) in caffenol for free and just hang out and drink beer. They have a screening event coming up next Friday. Shoot me a message if you want to chat more!

I also was at the tour thanks to the heads up from Bill. I mainly echo what Andrew said. But also they were not Kodak reps and this was a semi-unofficial tour. They were actually the workers (from the now deceased Deluxe lab) who will run the processing machines. So most of what they said that didn't concern the actual machines themselves was off the cuff and not official. But the lab is mainly set up for running 16mm and 35mm color neg. Super 8 was possible apparently but he seemed unsure if they'd run it. Also, like Andrew said, no B&W and no color reversal... which seemed odd to me given the recent Ektachrome announcement but it almost seemed like this lab was mainly going to be gunning for big 16 and 35mm clients and not amateur focused. Also no knowledge of the Super 8 ecosystem which was announced so really curious where all that Super 8 will be getting processed, scanned and uploaded by Kodak... They definitely seemed to have a lot of work left to do before being ready. With only 1 processing machine of 2 installed (and the second no where to be found) and the first one wasn't actually fully operational due to the water heating concerns. All the chems and what not were in the tanks though. One guy said they could run anywhere from 20k-50k feet a day but he was chatting pretty casually about the process so not sure what it'll be in reality. Also the "scanning" room is completely empty at this point. And they did have a film cleaning machine in another room that seemed set up. Reception area for receiving film and apparently allowing filmmakers to directly drop off their film was completely empty along with the kitchen room. Also, I don't know how labs normally are but it's not a darkroom lab but a light room. They have an almost... bathroom sized darkroom in the middle of the lab where they'll prep the film into light tight reels that then get mounted, in the light, into the main processing machines which are in normal window lit rooms. The whole lab was probably no bigger than around 2500-3000 sq ft maybe and resides in a warehouse in Long Island City with lots of other tenants so it's not a standalone structure. Although I'm not the best on guessing sq footage. So ya. That's roughly it. Fascinating since I've never seen a lab before and I think it'll still be another month or so but perhaps they can make it happen sooner. And as I've said, this is not official, just what I noticed and gathered from the tour. But hey it's like a 15 minute bike ride from me so I hope it works out and processes Super 8!

I've shot 500T in Super 8 a fair amount. Vision3 can handle a LOT of overexposure and according to anyone you ask, it'll tighten up grain and give you a denser neg. Especially with a 2k scan, it can look great. 500T shot during the day at 160 (Nizo 801M that only meters up to 160T) 500T shot inside at night at 400 (Canon 814XL-S which reads up to 400T) Cropped to 16x9 Also join us on the Super 8 forum here for more questions about Super 8! That is a freaking GEM of a camera you got there. I'm jealous.

I generally send as many rolls as I can at a time into a USPS bubble mailer then print and fill out CineLab's form, put that, the film, AND a harddrive (at 2k overscan about 5gb per roll) then send it off. On the form CLEARLY state multiple times that you want the film sent to Gamma Ray Digital and put GRD address in the address form area. One time they sent back to me. Annoying. Also yes, you'll have to ask to prep for transfer. It'll probably be another $10. Also you can include a prepaid mailer but last time I did, the film on reels was too big for the mailer so they had to charge their own shipping rate. So ya, In the meantime, email Perry at GRD and let him know you got some film on the way and to keep on eye out for it. He'll email you once they have it to confirm what you want then invoice you, scan it and send it all back on the drive including the film reel and your invoice from CineLab. Generally takes about 2-3 weeks roundtrip depending on how backed up CineLab is.

Tyler, I'm admittedly an amateur in comparison to your experience level and not trying to be inflammatory but I'm truly perplexed by your posts on this forum. You seem to hate Super 8 for all that it is. And want it to stay in its place and do nothing more than crappy home movies and only 16mm and up are really legitimate formats for true filmmakers. If you seriously can look at the 720p vs 1080p vs 2k crops of the old man's face and tell me there's not a sharpness/resolution/image quality difference, then I don't know what will convince you... And seeing the same lines has nothing to do with it. For a digital comparison, I can see the take a photo at 2mp of a mug and a photo at 12mp and while I can still see the same mug in both photos, there's an obvious difference in resolution. I can say from my own Super 8 scans that I noticed a dramatic improvement in image quality when I first got a 2k scan vs all of the 1080p telecines I had done before that. The difference was quite stark. Seeing my Tri-X scanned at 2k looked much more similar in grain/sharpness to projecting it on my Elmo ST1200 than the 1080p telecines. With that said, I don't see as big of a jump between 2k vs 4k but there's no reason not to other than cost. I do all my scans at 2k overscan currently as I like the ability to see the full image captured. You can also apply some image stabilization in post to help with the frame jitter but not everyone detests it as much as you might.

So I talked about it some in my post today in this thread... But basically, I personally think 2k is the best bet. I think there is a marked improvement in sharpness over 1080p plus the actual image is much larger (1440x1080 vs 2048x1556). So much so that despite my frugality, I find it worth it to pay for the 2k scans. Plus it's a flat scan so less color correction baked into it. I've had some stuff rescanned in 2k that I had previously telecined at 1080p scene-to-scene and definitely could see more grain and sharpness in the image. I feel as though it's the scanning method vs telecine but I'm not an expert on that. I just got some 4k overscans back from Pro8mm that I got in a sale and while the overscan is nice, the 4k is overall in my opinion. But other people might feel differently. The overscan does give you the sprocket hole which some people love and also gives you a bit more play with framing if you're going to crop it. I'm waiting on a few rolls from Gamma Ray Digital scanned at 2k overscan so I think that may be my personal sweet spot. Although keep in mind that most 2k scans are ungraded unless you pay extra. Also, Pro8mm is very overpriced although they are admittedly the most streamlined and amateur focused. Other labs like CineLab and Spectra are cheaper but a little harder to get in touch with via email although generally good picking up phones. So while a bit more hassle, I think CineLab + GRD is the best combo. Also, trust yourself! Super 8 is incredibly forgiving. I've overexposed rolls 2-3 stops and still gotten a great image. I'm hoping to write a little unscientific comparison of scans at some point and will link to it here whenever I get around to it.

Ha it's great to see this old thread of mine from last year revived. Glad more people like myself are getting into Super 8, Eric! I can provide a bit of an update to my own process in a budget minded sense. Super 8 is worth it. The image is just too amazing. First, some of it is just getting used to the price of motion film overall. It's just not cheap especially compared to still film. Period. With that said, savings can still be had. And sadly never through Pro8mm UNLESS you can buy their stuff on sale. In the fall I bought a total of around 15 rolls of their stock w/ 4k scan at 50% off at $75/roll and I just received it back and it looks great. But normal prices are WAY more expensive than my method below... Film stock I buy from www.buy8mmfilm.com as many people here do or from http://www.ebay.com/usr/riverwestradioauction who sells film at roughly the same prices. ~$26 for color neg and ~$20 for Tri-X and $5-10 for shipping depending on amount which is overall cheaper than Kodak's $20 shipping minimum. Processing I always do CineLab now. They are the cheapest and solid quality. Never had a processing issue with them. $15 for color neg and $18 for B&W I believe but I've gotten varying invoices over the years haha. Also they don't have processing minimums and they lowered their scanning mins to 2 rolls for 1080 and 4 rolls for 2k. Scans I now pretty much exclusively have had done at CineLab since that saves on shipping. I did the 1080p telecine best light for $17.50 for a while but then tried a 2k flat scan $25/roll and was blown away by the crispness enough that I always do 2k now. You DO have to do a bit of work with color correcting but it's worth it. With that said, I've occasionally had scanning issues like flickering (which was possibly my own camera but questionable) or once they scanned several rolls at half frame rate (i.e. only 1 out of every 2 frames was scanned). Both times they've rescanned for free. They definitely aren't the most responsive on emails which is frustrating but they get the job done. So depending on if you used prepaid USPS bubble mailers ($7).. for say 4 rolls it'd be around (4x$26+$7 shipping for stock, 4x$15 + $7 shipping to CineLab for processing and $4x25 for 2k scan +$10 for reel and $10 for return shipping) = $298 TOTAL = $74.5/roll at 2k. or at 1080p $268 = $67/roll. I currently have a 2 rolls 200T, 2 rolls Tri-X (processed at CineLab) and 5 rolls of a friend's grandfather's old R8mm that I had sent to Perry at Gamma Ray Digital since their 2k scans are only marginally higher at $27.50/roll and I've heard amazing things about their scans so I'll see next week. Feel like I can't go back down in scan quality after seeing what 2k shows. Martin, I actually have had my hand at a bit of home processing via Mono No Aware workshops here in NYC and have had good results. This was a BW reversal, bucket processed and this was a 500T color reversal and these are caffenol negative scans. And a little flatbed scanner test from another caffenol roll or kicks. All solid results but I haven't had the time or mental capacity this past year with my own wedding to delve into it more, Hopefully 2017 is the year for that! I've been eyeing an UPB-1A tank for a while. I also just got back my first ever Ektachrome roll and a Pro8 Provia beta roll and it is INCREDIBLE projected so looking forward to shooting more of that in the fall. Got a roll in the freezer currently. I've also starting shooting weddings and working out deals with people as an excuse to shoot more Super 8. Love it! Keep shooting! I shot 30+ rolls last year! 20 for my wedding and honeymoon alone haha.