Shane C Collins
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Posts posted by Shane C Collins
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1 hour ago, Giray Izcan said:
I was actually interested in Elmo as I know they have a great lens. If I am not mistaken, that camera has 180 degree shutter angle at 24fps right? The narrow shutter angle is what I don't like about s8 cameras, in particular, Beaulieus.. you lose a stop with that shutter angle.. I wish they were just standard 180..
I'm not sure of the shutter angle for this Elmo model. I always open up one full stop when shooting modern Ektachrome with this camera. The results projected are fantastic! This stock needs a bit more exposure to look it's best. It really becomes much sharper with better contrast as well. I do also apply a ND filter when allowing more light to hit the film. This approach works well with the Elmo Super 110.
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1 minute ago, Giray Izcan said:
I shoot on Minolta xl84 at 2.8 indoors and t/4-8 outdoors with pleasing image that is plenty sharp with good contrast..I bought it for 100, which should have been more like 250-400. I am going to be shooting a small short that is intended to test the format (7213) in controlled situations. I look forward to it.
That's a very nice camera! I have a Minolta Autopak 8 D6 that I use from time to time. The Rokkor lens is very sharp with nice contrast.
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52 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:
By comparing the final files to 16mm and 35mm?
It's impossible to get a crisp image because the system uses a plastic pressure plate. So flange distance constantly varies. The bigger cameras like the Beaulieu series with C mount lenses, they struggle to maintain flange distance. Every lens is collimated slightly different and the mounts are not locked to the gate at all, so as the cameras get older, the lens mount itself slowly starts to move away from the gate. It doesn't take long to have the flange distance off.
The film is poorly made as well, the perforation pulses and even though the registration is based on the side rail, that too changes dramatically camera to camera. There is a spring loaded side rail which is designed to hold the film and that wears, so the lateral registration falls apart over time.
The cameras don't run at any consistent speed, so many have flickering issues. The automatic ISO controls don't work on modern stock well, so you're running manual exposure always. The lenses on the build in lensed cameras are poor, even tho there are some "fast" lenses, it's all a joke because there is a beam splitter in the way, so they're never THAT fast. Plus the built in focus aids, never work right. There is no actual ground glass. Even in the fancy mirror shutter Beaulieu's, have poor viewfinders. I never got that, it makes no sense.
So no, they really never made any good cameras, even the ones which appear to be better, they're really all just crap.
Don't get me started about the projectors, whooo eeeee such junk.
Nobody ever really tried to make the format any good. Logmar did with their first iteration which pulled the film out of the cartridge and ran it around a sprocket drive and actual gate with pressure plate and hard C mount. It worked, but it's very expensive and it's not the best design sadly. The images out of the Logmar, scanned properly and with good glass, look ok. So we know it's not necessarily the film of course, it's just the cartridge, camera and projector tech which fails the format.
Well all I can say is you must be using junk cameras, and projectors because that has not been my experiences at all. I would not consider the Elmo Super 110 junk far from it. Nor would I say my Eumig projector was junk. Built from solid metal, and with precise gates, and removable sprockets for Standard 8 and Super 8. Dude you really are beating up on a format that is a joy to use, and view! I'm only stating my experience with it! Super 8 has lots of potential you just have to know what your doing to get good results. It sounds like your not using the format correctly. I honestly never heard anyone beat up on it as much as you sorry dude! It's not perfect but it's magical when you keep things in perspective. Super 8 was never intended to compete with 16mm or 35mm. But many of us love it for it's dreamy quality, and vintage look.
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I've shot a lot of Super 8 over the years, and have come to the conclusion there's two important things that can make or break Super 8. The camera's lens, and the projector's lens if you're watching your films this way. The last 5 or so carts of Ektachrome 7294 I've shot have all come out beautiful, and sharp. If you haven't seen Ektachrome on a good quality projector with a good lens your missing out. My go to camera these days is the underrated Elmo Super 110. This camera produces some beautiful images. The projector I am using is the classic Eumig Mark S 709 using a Eumig Suprovar 1.0 zoom lens. No digital transfer I've ever seen online comes close to the original images as seen on a projector. My Super 8 home movies look high quality this way. However I do keep the projected image smaller 3 feet by 3 feet on the silver screen I am using. This further enhances the Super 8 image. If you blow Super 8 up too big it begins to lose its quality. I also find if I keep my subjects close to medium while filming, that helps with sharper images on screen. Super 8 is really a close format and not meant for landscapes. So if you haven't projected color reversal on a good classic projector your missing out for sure!
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My way of editing, and splicing film is a bit unorthodox to say the least! So I've been shooting and editing Super 8 for about 18 years now. My go to film is Ektachrome (7294) color reversal for home movies. I mainly use it to shoot vacations, my 3 year old son, and various family outings. I am also a purist when it comes to projecting Super 8 only!
OK so my way of editing, and splicing Super 8 is not using an editing machine. Nope watch the film first, then make mental notes as to what I will keep, and what gets cut out. I then place the film on my editing rewinds. Film is placed on the right reel, this puts the film in the same direction as you would on a projector. The splicing block is placed in the middle of the left and right rewinds. Take-up reel is placed on the left spindle. I run the film from right to left, and while doing so I use the flashlight from my phone to illuminate the film as it passes by. I also have a spare projector lens so I can look at the images close up as needed. Once I get to the part of the film I want to cut I do so with the splicer. I then flip the film coming from the right so I can remove the emulsion. Once the emulsion is removed the film is re-positioned in the splicer, sprockets facing me. I then do the same for the film on the left side of the editor. After both pieces of film have been scraped and cleaned I make sure they are secure in the splicer and ready for some glue. Now I also use another unorthodox way of gluing the film together. I simply use some Gorilla Super Glue. Yep that's right good old fashion super glue, and it works! I first squeeze out a small drop onto a piece of cardboard. I then use a toothpick to get a dab of glue on the end. I apply the super glue to the film piece on the left, and then bring down the other section of film on the right, and clamp both pieces together. I wait about 2 minutes, and then un-clamp the film and allow another minute or two for it to air dry. I then check the splice for durability, and if all is OK I move on to the next section of film to be edited. I've been doing this method for many years as I mentioned earlier, and it works well! The film is free to move and it's easy to edit this way. This method might seem strange but it's never failed me after 18 years. And I'm happy to report splices I've made after all these years are still holding.
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8 hours ago, Stephen Gordon said:
Thanks Joerg - I will need to seek out some online footage shot with the Canon 310XL to see if the quality would be up to wedding coverage standard.
Thanks also to Shane - I've seen your previous posts about giving Ektachrome 100D (which I shoot and project for my own holiday films) an extra stop over the box speed and actually made a note of your advice in my growing notebook of 'Tips from the experts'. Your response is appreciated!
You're very welcome! Glad to hear you also use, and project 7294. Some don't care for it, but I really like it! I've come to enjoy the colors, contrast, and the sharpness. I definitely think this version of Ektachrome is much sharper than 7285 from the past. Although I liked that film overall, but feel the current stock is far superior in many ways. I believe if more people understood how much latitude it has they would maybe like it more in the end. Although it seems to have a good following. Lately when I've tried to order from FPP it's out of stock. That would seem to indicate people are buying it up!
So I'm curious, do you shoot this at box speed? If so what has been your experience with it projected? Also keep in mind if you decide to increase exposure +1 be sure to also use a ND filter at the same time in bright conditions. I say this because you can "burn" the exposure a bit if you don't give the lens a pair of sunglasses!
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I know this post is about Tri-X but here's something to consider when shooting the modern Ektachrome 7294 color reversal. I've been shooting this stock since 2018. My first cart shot at box speed (100 ASA) was way underexposed. I used an Elmo Super 110 that has always been spot on when using the auto exposure. So for the second cart I decided to increase the exposure by 1 stop. When that film came back from the processing lab, and was projected the exposure was perfect! Color, sharpness, and contrast were all top notch! So I've been exposing 7294 at +1 ever since. I've also been using a ND filter when filming in bright conditions. Many will say it's my camera's, but I'm here to tell you modern Ektachrome is not 100 ASA but more like 64-80 ASA. I think Kodak produced this film with a higher latitude in mind, or maybe they formulated it a bit on the conservative side exposure wise. But once you find the sweet spot with 7294 it's a beautiful stock projected.
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One thing that not many Super 8 users talk about today is the art of projecting film. I've been shooting Ektachrome since 2010. First with 7285 and now 7294. The latest stock is excellent on screen. No digital transfer will ever look as good as the camera original, and that is a fact! Everyone pushes for negative stocks but never reversal. If you've never shot or viewed a current Ektachrome film on a decent projector you are not seeing Super 8 in its best intended look! I will say this I've obtained some images from Super 8 that almost look as good as 16 mm with cameras like the Elmo Super 110. Then watched these films on a Eumig projector using a prime projection lens! Wow is all I can say, there's nothing like it! When I see Super 8 uploaded to places like YouTube I am usually not impressed with the results. Sure there are some exceptions but they never look like the same images I see on a projector in front of me in a dark living room. I point these things out because the true magic of Super 8 has always been it's ability to transform itself on screen with great sharpness, contrast, etc.
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On 5/10/2023 at 6:53 PM, Patrick Cooper said:
I think what was achieved in GIMP looks good with that frame grade.
By the way, was it necessary to shoot between f16 and f22? I guess you wanted to maximise the depth of field. Also guessing there was no ND filter. Using such a small aperture with a very small format like super 8 can be a risk with regards to diffraction. Though your frames look reasonably sharp so no issues there.
I must say that the light conditions must have been very bright. Ive shot 50D once on a sunny day with no ND filter at 24fps though my aperture wasn't anywhere near as small. May have been closer to f8 but I can't remember.
When I'm shooting Super 8 Ektachrome color reversal outdoors on a sunny day I always use a ND filter. My goal on bright days is to obtain exposure somewhere between F8 to F11. The sweet spot for projecting Ektachrome is F8 on sunny days. I've found my films are much sharper on screen at this sweet spot. For less sunny days F 5.6 is excellent! F stops definitely have an effect with such a small format as Super 8. But understanding how Super 8 reacts to light, etc helps for sure.
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Niels it looks like both these cameras will meter Ektachrome as 100 ASA. I checked the online database for these cameras, and the information provided indicates they both will work fine with 7294. Even if your using a camera that meters at 160, you can use the backlight control to open the aperture in auto-mode.
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It would be nice if they released a color reversal Super 8 film for those of us that like to project our films! Thank goodness we have Ektachrome, which is a great film for projection.
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9 hours ago, Joerg Polzfusz said:
Hello!
Ever since the existence of the first slide films, there have been debates whether to shoot at box speed or not. For today’s E100D, there seem to be many photographers that are shooting it as 80ASA (at least according to the postings on various forums)…
…nevertheless, there are some factors that have to be kept in mind:
a) processing: age/usage of the chemicals, temperatures and durations also do have an impact on the „brightness“ of the image
b) when was the last time, your camera‘s exposure meter got CLA‘ed? The Elmo Super 110 mentioned by Shane is approximately 50 years old. Did anyone ever did a CLA since it left the factory half a century ago?
c) exposure meters is S8-cameras: Is your camera taking the whole image into account? Or is the meter a single, „center-weighted“ sensor? Or does your camera have 9, 15 or more separate points for measuring the exposure that can be switched on/off?
d) personal taste: what might be „too dark“ for Shane might be already be „too bright“ for me (depending on the scene/subject).
e) last, but not least: Super8 standards vs. existing cameras: There are several cameras that would shoot the E100D as 160 ASA Tungsten - simply because the manufacturer of the camera wanted to save some pennies and hence didn’t include a sensor for detecting the tungsten/daylight notch. And then, there are a few cameras that mistake the E100D with an E160G…
…to sum it up: Shane is correct when mentioning that the box speed is just a recommendation. And there are technical and artistic reasons to ignore it sometimes. But IMHO it’s best to do some (expensive ? ) tests with your camera (while keeping the processing consistent) before applying some settings - especially when it’s the same setting for all your different cameras.
Joerg makes some good points concerning the proper exposure of the latest Ektachrome. I come into this discussion based on experience with shooting this stock. He's also correct that others online have recommended exposing at 80 ASA. The Elmo Super 110 I mentioned has not been serviced but I have taken it a part for lubrication. The 110 has been shooting different stocks for about 10 years. The last roll of Tri-X I shot last year was exposed properly at box speed. The cart of Tr-X before that was also exposed properly in this camera. And a year before that a roll of Ektachrome 64T (frozen since new) was shot at box speed and exposed correctly. I've shot 100D (7294) in about 5 different cameras that all required the exposure to be increased by 1 stop to make this film look sharp, brighter, etc. Each of those cameras have also exposed other stocks at box speed, and were consistent. So that's where I've decided, based on these experiences, that the latest 7294 is not near as sensitive, and needs more light. But as Joerg mentioned some might prefer a darker image either projected or scanned. The one issue I noticed on the first roll of 7294 that was shot at box speed was most of the scenes in the shadows were not visible on screen. Only the scenes in sunny conditions showed up. My sweet spot for projection has been 64 ASA which is one stop from 100 ASA.
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The new Ektachrome requires at least one stop more exposure to look its best! So the advice you read to overexpose is correct. Many of us discovered early on this newest stock is rated more like 64 ASA. If you shoot this at the box speed of 100 ASA your images will be pretty dark overall. I first shot this in 2018 with an Elmo Super 110 that exposes film perfectly in auto mode. That first cart came back very dark projected. I then decided to increase one stop with the next cart. That film came back perfectly exposed, and very sharp. I think the problem is Kodak did not develop this Ektachrome to be as sensitive as the prior 7285. Now many here will tell you that this is not true, and that I don't know what I'm talking about, etc. Trust me that usually means they haven't shot a roll of this film. I've shot a ton of it and so I know how it reacts to light, etc. Once you increase your exposure 1 stop this film looks awesome, especially projected! Your Nizo has a backlight function, and I would use that while you're filming in auto. I set all my cameras to backlight, and every single film that came back was perfectly exposed! With film being expensive it's important to get it right!
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Usually there is a filter pin inside the camera. If there is one present it should disengage the #85 filter when a daylight cart is inserted. For example, if your shooting with the new Ekachrome color reversal, and insert the cart the pin, if present, will push the filter out. You can experiment by looking through the lens, and push the pin at the same time.
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You could also try Ektachrome 100D color reversal, and see how your camera responds. This is a beautiful stock projected on the big screen. It does seem to like more light than it's recommended 100 ASA box speed. I tend to expose it at 80 ASA with good results. At box speed it's a bit too dark and not as sharp. The new 7294 is almost grain-less compared to the Ektachrome it replaced. Plus the colors projected are very vivid and accurate.
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10 hours ago, Mark Dunn said:
The auto exposure should work without a cartridge, so you should see the pointer or whatever moving when you switch on, assuming there's an on-off switch.
If the camera was designed to use 160ISO film, it will read at 100ISO with the 85A filter in, otherwise it will read at 25.
Thanks Mark!
The reason I ask is someone mentioned that in order to activate the auto-exposure in this camera, you must first load it with film. I've shot enough Super 8 through the years, with various cameras, and all of them worked without film. I would assume if this is the case with the Zeiss then there must be a way to turn this on without a cartridge loaded. Another words there must be some sort of lever inside the film chamber? I will have to investigate when the camera arrives.
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I know this is a pretty old post but I have a quick question for anyone that can answer it. I recently purchased a Ziess Ikon MS8 from Germany. The camera itself hasn't arrived, but I'm wondering about the auto-exposure. Does the auto-exposure work as soon as batteries are inserted? Or does a film cart need to be loaded for the auto-exposure to work? I'd assume the f-stops are visible in the viewfinder. Also can one manual push a button in the film chamber to activate the auto-exposure? I'll want to see if that is working once the camera arrives. Thanks in advance!
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I've shot about 6 rolls of the new Ektachrome and can tell you that this stock will handle overexposure just fine. It's rated at 100 ASA but seems to meter better at 80 ASA. Other's are starting to use this approach from my readings online. My rule has been to open up 1 full stop on cloudy days, or in shaded areas, and a 1/2 stop on bright sunny days. My results have been excellent!
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On 2/26/2019 at 2:53 PM, Nick Collingwood said:
Well back to the situation at hand, I've shot both the new and old Ektachrome in my Canon 514XL which is similar to the 310XL and gotten great results. IMO, the new stock is a little less sensitive and would benefit from being shot at 80ASA but not a huge difference. Didn't have any issues with overexposure with an XL lens. The stock handles it ok. I shot the older E100D in my 514XL on the beach and was totally ok.
Attached a couple stills below from the 2K flat scan without any contrast added back in. In projection it's a bit brighter and more saturated.
Nick what meter setting would I choose for Ektachrome 7294 if I wanted to shoot it at 80 ASA instead of 100 ASA? Is that only a 1/3 of a stop? So let's say I have a meter reading of 8 would I then increase halfway between 8 and 5.6? As you know I've been shooting 7294 with 1 stop more light and it seems to look fine projected. Thanks!
PS: I just purchased a Canon 514XL and I am waiting for it to be delivered. I am excited to see how this camera handles the new 7294.
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Thanks Harald for the recommendations!
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So my go-to camera for the last few years has been the Elmo Super 110. It's a great running and very quiet camera. However I wish it had an exposure compensation like my Eumig Viennette 8 has. That camera doesn't work well anymore. It has a feature that allows you to adjust the auto-exposure plus or minus 1/2 to 1 stop. There's a small red slider switch that you can activate under the body of the camera. My question is are there are Super 8 cameras with this feature? I'm looking for a camera that won't break the bank but give me sharp images, and the ability to have this feature as mentioned. Thanks!
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1 hour ago, andy oliver said:
Hiya i have exposed quite a few 8mm rolls of ut18, not super 8. My findings are the same as above. Poor perfs, variable quality. If you want a film that gives you instant 1970s looking iffy quality home movies its amazing stuff. Kodak 7294 is the best reversal stock currently available and imo best e6 stock kodak have ever produced. On8mil is not the best option to purchase as processing by kahl is included, i always use Dwaynes photo and i,m uk based.
Yes I've shot about 5 rolls of the new Ektachrome 7294 and love it! The colors, contrast, sharpness, and latitude are very good. Projected this film is amazing! I've had to add a bit more light though to really make this stock shine. At least 1 stop in my case seems to work.
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The new Ektachrome 100D is less sensitive and can handle overexposure quite well. In fact it's best to overexpose this stock by 1 stop. I get good results by doing this. As mentioned earlier in this thread 80 ASA is a good bet for this stock. A ND filter is a must on sunny days. Projected this stock looks amazing!
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A Bolex 18-5L Super with Osram HLX 75 watt bulb with plenty of light. And I also have a Elmo FP8-C with a 150 watt halogen bulb. I have both projectors fitted with Bolex "hifi" prime lenses 1.3.
FINALLY - Kodak Super 8 camera!
in Super-8
Posted
Again you are wrong! My audience, family and friends do like the aesthetics of Super 8. In fact they like that it's sharp but has that dreamy feeling at times depending on the scene being shot. They also like the sound, and smells from the projector running in the background. Projecting Super 8 can be a rewarding experience, and for me it also holds some nostalgia as well. I grew up watching myself on Super 8 from my uncle's film collection. So it in a lot of ways holds special meaning to those of us that remember it from childhood. If you can't get some sort of feeling from film why shoot with it? Plus Super 8 was always intended for the home movie market period. Remember it came out in 1965 proceeding Standard 8 another fun format. I think the problem nowdays is people loose the reason why they decided to shoot on Super 8 or any film format. It's got to be about fun not always the technical sound. Over the years I've learned how to get Super 8 to look good, and it comes with practice, and a good eye. But I never loose site of why I'm filming with Super 8, and that's to preserve special moment with friends and family. Moden Ektachrome works well for what I need out of Super 8. And it certainly has the right amount of low grain, resolution, etc. As I've mentioned many times here, and else where 7294 needs more light. Once you adjust it's a stellar looking stock! OK I'm done with this conversation as it's turning into an unwanted battle.