Gianni Raineri

Bump to topic... Thanks I used the voltage details ( 0v, 2.4v, 4.8v ) to make a temporary battery pack for a S2008 body I got on xBay. Adapted a battery holder with four AAA Nimh's. Cut some red, white, and black wires, connected them up and crammed it into the battery hole, wrapping it all with electrical tape. Took a couple of hours, but I needed to test the motor and light meter, and it works. I initially got motor working with a 4.65v lantern battery, but to check out the light meter.

Hiya folks. Just thought I would dig up this old and useful thread. Interesting stuff about tanks and chemistry. Anyway I found this French made tank last month in the North London suburbs. I was picking up some C41 chemistry at RK photograhic, www.thedarkroom.co.uk and told the manager it was for home processing cine film. He says wait a minute and comes back with this tank covered in a layer of dust. A customer ordered it ages ago and never picked it up, so that's how I got it. Sorry it was the only one in stock. Looks to me to be a bit easier to make than a lomo or rewind tank. Still need some extras for 16mm 100' / 33m processing, like a giant changing bag and a 16mm split reel or 600' projector reel for unwinding the dimpled separator strip onto. G

I wouldn't bid on that B&H camera above, the one I pointed to with it's ebay auction number! I just had another looksie and it's missing the winding crank handle. That's the other reason I junked mine. I usally hand over my precious cameras to my seven year old boy and their friends to test both the kids and the cameras. With that model, the kids somehow always yanked the crank right off while winding it, and was fiddly for me to replace. It looks like somebody on ebay lost their crank handle..... Gianni :lol:

I had a Bell & Howell Zoom Master which I think is similar to the Director... check out the pix on a current ebay uk auction no. 170139558554 (17th august). It's very big and heavy camera. The windup spring motor is really strong on the one I had, pulling way over a minute of film at 16 or 24 fps. The light meter on mine was dead after 45 years, so I converted the aperture control to manual. Afterwards, I wouldn't trust it because the f stop lever was springy and inconsistent. It uses cloth thread, like rubber belts inside, instead of gears to control the aperture. Sorry I binned it because I didn't want to risk loosing a precious roll of film to bad exposure. A roll of film costs substantially more than the cameras! I recommend not spending more than five or ten pounds sterling on user 8mm cameras, unless it's boxed and in very clean and working condition. For practice loading, the Kodak Brownie 8mm are good, as are any Soviet Any of the Zenit Quarz's 8mm. Somebody's gonna say what about the Bolex's D8L's and H8's? They cost too much compared to the others because collectors love 'em. The Soviet cams are actually great for shooting with their prime lenses. Me thinks any of the latter Canon 8mm are good with their Zooms (Canon Reflex Zoom 8-2, Canon Reflex Zoom 8-3, Canon Motor Zoom 8 EEE, Canon Cine Canonet 8, Canon Cine Zoom 512). The B&H's with prime lenses are good, I especially like the 70dr mini clone look alike 8mm with three lens turrets for shooting. I try to attend local boot sales in North London and regularly find 8mm cameras in dusty but working order. I can put some up on ebay if you want... I've got a Canonet, a Zoom 8-2, a Zenit Quarz 5 and Quarz M I can put for the boot sale price I got it at (plus postage). I'll put in a roll of KII 8mm for practice... Gianni B)

I also got a Nikon like that without a battery holder. My only choice was also to find another camera, but I couldn't wait around. I had once made a DIY Beaulieu 4008 battery pack because I did not want to spend $90 for home movie camera battery pack. I decided to adapt that process and repeat it for the (different voltage) missing Nikon R battery. I used Maplin parts (like Radio Shack) which cost about £5 - £10 without batteries, and cobbled it all together after a few hours of careful fiddly work. Just watch you don't fry the camera's internals. I ended up with external battery packs for both cameras, looks ugly, but works. Use a Voltage Meter, mine cost £3.00. These are the parts I used: 1) A copper coated circuit board cut into an oval shape to fit inside the handle up against the camera's contacts. I ground off the copper using a dremel - hand drill. That's dangerous, but I wouldn't pay an extra £15 for photo chemical kit to clear the copper off the board. I drilled three holes into this flat oval disk, and filled it with big drops of solder, connecting it to.. 2) three wires... connected to the four wires of... 3) Two pp3 battery connectors 4) Two 3 AA Battery holders with PP3 connector 5) Black Cloth Tape to wrap it together 6) Red Electrical tape to contrast with the black tape. Connect it all together and cram it into the handle, which then won't close all the way because it doesn't fit. Don't know if AAA's or NiMh's will work and fix, I used Six AA, Alkaline batteries. The three contacts of the R8/R10 are +9v, (-9v/-4.5v) and -4.5v. Connect them to two sets of three AA's, stuff it into the handle and power on. You have to figure out which contact is +9v -9/4.5v and -4.5. Somebody over at filmshooting.com posted the diagram, but filmshooting.com's offline at the moment so I can't check. Basically the front and rear (9v) contacts in the handle of the Nikon drive the motor, and the middle one (4.5v) drives the light meter. With the Nikon upside down, lens pointing away from you, the two 9v's are on the left, the one 4.5v is on the right, in a triangle pattern. Try touching the two 9v with a live 9v current and pull the shutter. Hope you don't short circuit or fry the camera! You can also just drive the camera with manual exposure I think, without the light meter... I may be wrong on that. BTW, FYI YMMV! Gianni B)

Hi again, cool links Terry, interesting background review about for Super 8 newbies. Thanks for the links. Have a look below into the jpg pix of the Kodak M2 Instamatic Movie Camera. Notice the direction of the photographer's shadow relating to the position of the sun (your light source). That's a forumula for a typical family filming under the sunny 16 rule, using contrasty Kodachrome II projection films which under those circumstances performed great. However it's easy to screw up the exposure with a wrong setting and light angle using reversal projection film. It seems to me that the general consensus is that Video is comparable to reversal film, which is less forgiving of mistakes compared to negative film, which forgives over exposure. There are other variable conditions affecting the judgemental difference between video and film, or reversal vs negative film, with the 8mm format. Consider that projecting a reversal direct image vs telecine'd mini-DV is not a direct comparasion. The TV screen or AV projector has less dynamic range than film, plus converting film to mini-DV involves steps which make the result better or worse depending on who does it and how it's converted to video. If you make a digital intermediate then go back to projection print, that's an ideal standard to strive for, but not realistic, not practical, and too expensive for amateurs on 8mm film budgets. I've experimented with DIY telecine with mobile phones, digital camera, 1 & 3ccd camcorders, using 6fps, and realtime capture, off a screen, an aerial image, and inkjet paper. That's fine for grandma and the kids, but we (in this forum) can't really consider just anybody's telecine business for our work. Home users don't expect quality, they just want the film on TV or DVD. When it comes to learning super 8 as a storytelling medium beyond video, then Moviestuff.tv workprinter technology is the best to show off 8mm for the dedicated super 8 shooter. Note that the workprinter system is designed for reversal films, not negative film, with only a few shops converting negative materials to mini-dv. The orange mask needs colour correction beyond the typical camcorder white balance. Then there is dust and scratches, which is sorted out by the quality control demanded by the pro labs that use Flying Spots - Spirit technology, for productions needing perfection and standards. Gianni in London B)

Saluti Antonio! Yesterday just got back a roll of (old stock) Kodachrome Super 8 silent processed at Dwaynes Photo in Kansas. Just had to wait a week or so. I used a credit card and price compares to local European labs. It came back with leader on both ends, prepared and all ready for telecine. I can still get fresh Kodachrome stock from Germany or California. Kodachrome still has some life left in it! Anyway we shot a narrative for a youth club in video and it's all edited, done and forgotten. However I did a Super 8 take after each of the five or six video takes. I'll intercut the telecined super 8 bits, then see how it comes out on Youtube. The film stock came out faded and low contrast, but the image is clearly there. I'll use Apple Quicktime Pro for adjustments. Too bad I used one of the cheapest cameras I had the Boots Comet 121 instead of bolex 155 or Nizo something! Gianni B)

I just checked the camera, it was on Auto. It's designed for a giant 1.3v Mercury battery, but I use an ordinary 1.5 v Button Cell. It needs to be wrapped inside rubber foam ring and has a crushed aluminum foil spacer. Also I don't think I zoomed, I just set it to 6.5mm wide, and zoomed around with my feet. Gianni B)

Stupid browser I'm using (Flock) doesn't let me edit the post... About the batteries for these old cameras, I have found NiCads locally for real cheap, and work fine in these old 1970's and 80's cameras.. They don't loose their charge just sitting around like NiMh's. Also indoor shooting with E6, stay next to the windows (light) or replace all the room light bulbs with low wattage- high output florescents. I've got two 85w monster bulbs that each output 400W worth of light. 200T film is fine, just keep the light behind or beside you. Gianni

Trust in your light meter, and "Use the Force Luke" :P rechargables if you are Green, otherwise use Alkalines, or if the NiMh's don't work. I never used a Yashica Super 8, but it's worth a go. I have no doubts you'll get images off it if it works! I've got a series of great Yashica Rangefinders (35mm still cameras) from the 60's and 70's.... If you shoot outdoors use E6 filim and keep the sun above and behind you outdoors, or shoot in overcast days... If you shoot indoors, use 200T and keep the lights behind you... Ask you friends or family to help with this habit, but either giving you money, or keeping an eye out for anyting cine film related. I've trained my kids, spouse, co workers, and parents to report any sightings in their daily life. Gianni in London

For Extra Credit: Continuing on the ....Process the film yourself in a bucket using D76 or Diafine. Spend the money you save on professional processing on purchasing an old Russian Lomo Cine Film Processing tank. Shoot E-6 reversal stock. It is easier to project and transfer it yourself. Black and white reversal processed as neg can be home telecined using the negative art mode of your camcorder. I have not tried DIY telecine colour neg yet, I'm worry about being put down by those that charge hundreds of dollars for a few minutes of custom "graded" telecine. I'm only an amateur, doing this for fun and art and home movies. That's what Super 8 orginally about. I suppose colour negative processed as negative can be processed as black and white in home telecine and neg art'ed in the camcorder, or damn the colours as in cross processing and use blue filters over the projector or camcorder during telecine. If you have money, shoot the colour negative super 8 stock, send it to specialist labs and have them deliver the film back along with it transferred onto a mini-DV tape. Just yesterday I spoke with the lab manager at Todd-AO Lab in London and heard they process about 200 rolls of super 8 colour neg every month this way. I only know of Pro 8 mm lab [ducks for cover] in the Arnie State that does that in the US. For a rundown of all the labs visit Onsuper8.org's portal If you don't acutally use pro 8's services, they are an interesting read to learn about cine film as media, along with onsuper8 portal. If you get good and recognized, you sponsors / producers will probably nudge you into 16mm media, which is on the other forum...

Hi Luke, I'm attempting an answer to this because I had a bunch of my students at work ask me about 8mm cameras this week in class. I may copy and paste some of this into my learning materials. The camera is Super 8 if it loads on the right side and had one spindle for advancing the film. It's 8mm if it loads on the left side of the camera, and has two spindles, or possibly Single 8 if it's a Fujica. 50' Tri-X is Super 8 cartridge, as 8mm come in 25' daylight loading spools, and needs to be run through the camera twice. Some cameras have light meters, with either button cells to power them, or the light meter piggyback's on the electric motor's AA's batteries. Some cameras are totally automatic, some have manual exposure control. Some cameras are windup spring motor s with or without button cells for the lightmeter. Some are electric motor driven cameras with manual controlled exposure, which typically open or close something like a diagraphram (two overlapping L or V shape sliding together or apart to adjust the light levels exposing the film) between the lens and the film gate. Nicer cameras actually use a diaphram aperature in the lens, as in real cameras. Shutter speed is typically always the same unless you have a variable speed shutter. This about 1/60th-ish or 1/30th-ish for the XL super 8 cameras. Exposure time increases at 12fps and 9fps to 1/20th-ish or 1/15th-ish of a second, shortens the exposure to 1/100 or 1/200th-ish at 32fps or 64fps. If this doesn't make sense, buy a expensive digital or cheap old film SLR and turn off auto exposure (and auto foucus too!). Good cine cameras can fade in or out using the shutter, which changes the amount of light during the fade. Cheap cine cameras use the aperture in the lens for fade out, which changes the depth of field during the fade. Dissolves are hard to do in super 8, easy peasy in 8mm and single 8. Nowdays we use iMovie to produce the fades, dissolves and and titles. About converting the cine film to computer, the DVD format is a destination medium, ok for playback, not for editing unless you are desperate, and only have a DVD camcorder. Ask them for the mini-dv tape transfer, (or the .AVI / .DV / .MOV file transfer to your external usb2 - firewire hard disk) so you edit it on your pc or mac. Find another transfer house or do it yourself if they say no. Find a projector and project it yourself and video the movie off a wall mounted sheet of inkjet printer paper. Put that dv file into your computer. All video files are compressed (for us mortals). DVD compression (variable rate, but 1 or 2 hours for 4 gigs) too compressed for editing, DV format is better for editing but still compressed (at 1 gig every five minutes) Uncompressed is for the AVID freaks and non consumer AV Gods and Goddesses who's computer can handle 30 mb per second and better... Camera? Use any camera you can find, but don't spend any money that you don't mind throwing away. All the cameras are over 30 years old. Any Soviet Super 8 is great, like the Zenit's, built to film nuclear war on the battlefield. Just keep the film underground in lead lined cases. They are dirt cheap to and under valued for super 8. [know it all mode on] then graduate to the French, German, and Japanese and Russian models. Beaulieu 4008ZM's, Nizo 401, 801, or 2056, 3056, 4056, 6056's. Canon 1014 XLS, 814XLS, Canon 814 Autozoom Electronic. Loads of other top end ones... [\know is all mode off] the super8 wiki list of cameras Process the film yourself in a bucket using D76 or Diafine. Spend the money you save on processing on a Lomo tank. Gianni

I since have discovered the "File Attachemts" link in the replying form. It allows you to browse to and attach a small jpeg to your post, buy addding the attachment... Gianni

I bought the film in a flea market the prevous weekend, it came in a box of junk film items... but had free processing envelope. I sent it to Lucerne the day after the shot, as it was the last week that Kodak Swiss Labs was offering free processing of cine films. I was invited to attend the opening ceremony, but forgot to dress up for the formal occasion. With jeans and gym shoes, I used the camera like jewelry to look like I belonged there, and hid behind the camera while filming... B) Gianni

Hi Terry Camera was an 8mm Canon Motor Zoom 8 EEE . It has no internal 85 filter, I used daylight film without any filter. The camera also had its 6mm wide angle lens adaptor attached. The place I shot was indoors but has a glass roof, and filmed at the end of a sunny day while the sun was going down. It used to be a courtyard driveway - converted into a new entrance lobby called Rickets Quadrangle. I didn't think of pointing the lens upwards to the roof.