Ben Kahn

Hello,

I’m shooting a short film that is set in the late 1970’s in a elementary school. We are using a Sony Venice with Zeiss super speeds and Angenieux ez zooms. 

I’m wondering if their are specifics strategies I can do in camera to get a time period feel. Been looking at movies of the era; camera movement, lighting styles.

In post we might add some grain and color grade to get a vintage film look of the time. Nothing to aggressive so as not to look artificial though. 

One thing I’m curious about is filtration. Can I get recommendations of filters that would have been used at the time? I am conscious of baking in something too aggressive that will be hard to work with in post. However, anything I can get in camera is always preferable. 

Thanks for any suggestions!

On 6/29/2023 at 11:12 AM, David Mullen ASC said:

I didn't ask the audience what they thought -- it was a free show for them but the camera was much higher than their eye level so only the dolly riser would have possibly blocked one person's sightline and they could have shifted to see around it. Even closer on the second night, it still was generally 10' away often but that was better than shooting her closer shots from 40' away on the first night.

Your director is going to have to convince the performer to do a pass with a camera hovering right in front of her face. It's going to be intrusive for everyone involved so he or she is going to have to have a good reason. It may work as a second pass on the second night in pick up of sections.

Had a conversation with the director. She had the same thought about getting on-stage coverage on the second night, pick up sections.

You can definitely feel the camera closer on the talent with the dolly setup. It definitely adds variety to the piece. I hope we can get something like that!

Nice work David! Thanks again

On 6/26/2023 at 7:46 PM, David Mullen ASC said:

I shot this comedy special a year ago exactly, it got released in April on Amazon Prime. I used the crew from "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel".  We had two nights of performance to shoot, to be edited into one performance. I think we had five cameras, all with zooms.

I really wanted to make sure everything wasn't shot on a long lens from the back of the house --  especially with haze in the air -- so basically on the first night the cameras were farther back and then all were moved closer the second night.

Night One: Camera #1 was center of house in the back on a 30' Technocrane to get the widest shots with camera moves. Camera #2  was also dead center, under Camera #1, on a longer lens. The reason I needed two dead-center cameras was because she was flanked equally by two musical performers so if the camera was even slightly off-center, she blocked one of the two people and it looked better as a frontal 3-shot. Camera #3 was in the corner of house left, near the back of her parents in the audience, who she talks to. Camera #4 was in the corner of house right but a bit more downstage to get near profile shots and be able to pan over to the parents in profile. Since the theater had a balcony section, Camera #5 was upstairs shooting high and wide over the heads of the audience in the balcony.  Now if we didn't have a two-level theater, I probably would have dropped that position though the high angle was nice.

Night Two: I wanted a frontal camera that was much closer physically -- close and wider-angle -- but since I didn't want to block the view of too many people, or have her view blocked too much, I put the camera on a remote head on a dolly riser so that it wasn't as "present". The camera was right at the end of the stage "tongue" or "thrust" that jutted out. Then I worked the other cameras around the perimeter; I think I brought the upstairs camera downstairs so I could put one camera each on her two musical performers who interact with her. And one camera was more dedicated to audience reactions.

After the performance was over, we asked the audience to stick around and she re-performed some sections again but with a Steadicam roving behind her back to see the whole house and spotlight. I think I put some of the other cameras on more audience reactions.

Camera #1 both nights had a shorter 5:1 zoom and the rest had 11:1 zooms. The Steadicam had a Primo prime lens. I used a #1/8 Black Frost on the lenses for minimal diffusion. ARRI Alexa Mini's shooting 3.2K ProRes 4444 Log-C 16x9, which is how most of "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel" was shot.

Hi David,

I replied to this yesterday but for some reason it didn't post so sorry for the delay.

Thank you for this valuable insight! This is super helpful. We will also have the benefit of two performances so can utilize your strategy to shoot wide the first night and move in tighter the 2nd.

Along those lines of tighter framing. The performer has more serious, emotional aspects to the show and the director is envisioning capturing those moments with a camera up close (wide lens/tight framing). Much like your steadicam shot but in front of the performer which would block the audience. My initial thought was to try and film those moments in a dress rehearsal but logistically that might not work, plus the performer might object to not having an audience to feed off of. Hopefully we can also do the re-performances after the show like she did.

I like the remote head/dolly shot you have for the second performance. That never felt intrusive to the audience though? 

Thanks again for your help!

Hello,

I'm looking for information on shooting a stand-up comedy special. This is something the stand-up and their producers would be funding independently, hoping to sell to a network or streaming service.  No budget restraints. Would be shooting in a fairly large theater.

Mostly I'm curious what cameras are being used and how many. I'm in the narrative and commercial world and usual use Arri's and Venices. Are those being used for comedy specials or are they using broadcast cameras? The producers want this to feel more cinematic so that's a consideration.

If anyone has any experience and can point me to resources (e.g. American Cinematographer articles...) I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

Hello,

I'm doing a TVC that takes place in a gymnasium. It's a bunch of kids playing basketball. I'm going for a moodier look so we found a gym where I can turn off the overheads and light through the windows. There is a line of small windows that go along the bleachers.

Any recommendations as to what lights would work best to push through the windows? there are 9 windows but I don't necessarily have to light them all. It's not a huge budget so looking for reasonable cost suggestions.

I think I'm also going to bounce some lekos off the back soffit (where the ceiling vents are) so the light will carry more.

Thanks 

DSC_00171.heic

Hi,

I am shooting a driving scene using a tow dolly. We will use hostess trays and hood mounts. I'd love some advice on how to light it.

I'd like to see some reflections in the windows (trees, buildings) but concerned that a bright sky will be overpowering and I won't see the actors. And using a polarizer might not cut the reflections down enough.

I was thinking of doing an overhead frame of half soft frost that would kill any hard sun coming through while still letting light in. But i think that would also kill all the reflections

Is it necessary to light the actors from the hood or insert car?

We will be shooting early in the morning until around 11. 

Thanks for the help

Ben

8 hours ago, Miguel Angel said:

Hi @Ben Kahn,

@Satsuki Murashigealready highlighted a lot of things to ask for, I have another question: 

- Does the director want to see ALL the windows open? Maybe you could talk him / her about just having one of the windows on the side open!
If the director doesn't want to see all the windows open you could place Litetiles on the windows (and curtains or voile) that the director doesn't want to see open. 
As the litetiles have a black back the sun wouldn't be able to enter through the windows and your light will be exactly the same through the hours / days, letting you play with, perhaps, patterns of hard sun light coming through the side window. 

My gaffer in Milano did exactly that on a job and it looks pretty believable I think. 

@Miguel AngelI love this idea! I Don't think it will work for this but I'm definitely stealing this one! ?

20 hours ago, Satsuki Murashige said:

Hi Ben, sounds like you’ve got your work cut out for you. Is the 20 page scene continuous? And does the director want to shoot in sequence? 

Is there no way to talk the director into a different location with north-facing windows at least?

If not, then I think the first thing you have to do is flag off all of the hard sunlight coming thru the windows and either recreate it with HMIs or just recreate the ambient with the Skypanels. There’s not much you can do about the quality of light on the deep background, it will be what it is. So hopefully you get consistent weather over the three days.

Maybe you can run multiple cameras to cut down on reset time?

The only other options I can think of would be:  

1. Put a large green screen outside the windows and put the background in later.

2. Shoot night-for-day, put a large backing outside the windows and light it with the Skypanels.

Thanks for the tips @Satsuki Murashige The scene takes place over one day but the last couple pages fall into evening. The location is locked in unfortunately and won't be using green screen or backing.

I think the HMI and skypanels is my plan. Maybe instead of a silk overhang outside I'll use a solid to block as much hard sunlight getting in as possible.

I'm going to see if we can schedule all the wide coverage in the mornings before the sun would make it through the windows. The houses on the west side of the street are the problem though because they will get direct sunlight.

I'm crossing my fingers for cloudy days!

thanks

Hello,

I am shooting a day interior scene that is 20 pages shot over 3 three days. The whole scene takes place in an open living room over the course of a day with seven characters sitting in front of a line of bay windows. I've attached pictures.

I would love some advice on how to create a consistent lighting scheme. We'll be shooting from around 7:00am to 6:00pm. The windows face west.

The scene is meant to be like a stage play so the characters stay in this area the whole time. Most of our coverage will be shot towards the windows.

One caveat-the scene is set in Covid time so they keep the windows open. The director wants to see the open windows so we can't use sheers or windows.

One idea I had was to build truss outside and hang a 4k and a few sky panels coming in from the camera right side windows. Then build a shelf off the roof with a 12x silk to help control some of the hard sun light that might get in.

Also, thinking about a 12x20 2 stop net but I'm worried I would see the patterns.

Thanks for the help.

33 minutes ago, Stephen Sanchez said:

 

@Ben Kahn, in the Shutter menu, you should have 3 options: Shutter Speed, Shutter Angle, and ECS Mode. ECS mode will allow you to scroll through the frequency in .1 increments. You can find your balance that way. I know this option is on Sony FX7 and FX9. The Venice should have the same mode.

Keep in mind that an excessive change from say 58 to 93.2 translates the same in light loss, as you're simply manually controlling the cycle rate of the shutter.

Thanks Stephen!

I'll try this

Hi,

I'm shooting an old CRT TV, playing a video from a VCR. I'll be using the Sony Venice. I did a test with a Sony mirrorless and couldn't get rid of the rolling bars no matter what shutter I tried. I'm assuming it will have the same result with the Venice.

I know sync boxes are used for film cameras. Do they work for digital cameras as well? Or is there another solution.

Thanks for the help.

Ben

Hi,

I'm looking for advice on shooting Christmas/party lights without having them flicker on camera. Are their flicker-free lights specifically made for filming? What about LED vs. incandescent? Does that make a difference?

Or is it just a matter of playing with shutter angle?

Thanks for your help

On 1/28/2021 at 10:27 PM, Satsuki Murashige said:

 

Thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for. Do you happen to know what movie that Kiera Knightly clip is from?

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone has advice on how to simulate a night to day time lapse in camera.

The scene is an overhead shot of a character lying in bed staring at the ceiling all night and into the morning. He is lit with a soft wash of blue moonlight. Then we see the transition to day. The effect of sun rising creates a moving hard light over his body.

My thought is to just use a few LED's and fade from blue moonlight, to a soft, cool daylight mixed with a warm, hard sunlight. Maybe it's that simple

I'd like to get that stop motion staccato effect too but I think it would have to be a post thing..

Thanks,

Ben

36 minutes ago, Ignacio Aguilar said:

1/8 Black Promist is a workhorse, you can't really go wrong with it. I use it a lot to make modern lenses have more feeling (slight halation) and to take of the edge of sharpness. 

If you just want to lower the apparent resolution, you may want to try something like a 1/2 Soft FX, which is another workhorse. It's light enough to remain unnoticed and, if you like the effect, you can always go to the 1/4 or 1# strenghts to adjust it to your taste. 

You may also like Glimmerglass (the 1/2# or 1# are quite like the 1/8 BPM in effect) though it's a more evident filter effect than BPM. Some people also like Pearlescent for this purposes, but I'm not keen of it. Others like Black Diffusion FX, it's a rather interesting but not so well known filter.

You may want to have a look at Tiffen's Triangle of Diffusion: 

And this excellent filter test by Stephen Murphy BSC:

But always, test, test, test...

Thanks. These both will be super helpful

On 1/13/2021 at 3:38 PM, Ignacio Aguilar said:

Exactly. 

I would try to test the lenses at different t/stops to try to notice the different performance wide open vs. stopped down, how they reproduce skin tones and different colors, how many optical aberrations show up when wide open, or how sharp they are at the intended shooting stop. I would also try to shoot in different lighting conditions, and use direct sources against the glass, or very bright sources on the frame, etc. to see how contrast is affected by them. With the Canons you may want to test all the different focal lenghts to see if they match each other, etc. as older lenses tend to be in worse shape and some of them didn't match at all even when they were new. 

But after all, it's all up to what you're trying to achieve, and your own taste. Bear in mind you may find both sets of Supremes quite sharp and contrasty (with the Radiance more prone to catch flares and veiling) while the Canon K35's are much older lenses with a distinct soft look and not so good performance below a T/2.0 or so. 

I'm sorry I took so long to respond. Thank you for the advice.

I wasn't able to test the K-35's. I found both the Supremes and the Radiance were really sharp and kind of sterile looking. I wasn't crazy about them clean but I tried some filters (BPM, HBM and Satin) and it looked much better. 1/8 BPM felt the best.

Would you recommend any other filters that might take some of the edge off of the sharpness but retain contrast? Even at the lightest the BPM made the blacks a little milky.

Thanks 

Hello,

I'm going to do a lens test for an upcoming TVC. Shooting on the Sony Venice so I'm looking for FF lenses. 

I'll be testing Zeiss Supreme and Radiance primes as well as Canon K-35's.

I'll have a subject to shoot and a small lighting setup.

I was wondering if anyone has a guide for how to go about the testing. What are the different variables I should be looking at? 

Thanks!

Hello,

I'd love to hear people's experience with the Blackwing7 lenses. I've been reading about the tuning capabilities and having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

The 3 options are Straight, Transient and Expressive.  Any examples would be really helpful.

Does the tuning have to happen at the rental house by the technicians or can they be adjusted in the field?

Thanks

28 minutes ago, David Mullen ASC said:

The second higher window above the couch would make a good source, I'd consider papering it and hitting it from high with an HMI on a condor -- maybe you could even rig a diffusion shelf at the bottom of the upper window so the HMI light spill downwards is softened. I'd consider some hard ND gels for the lower window or gels stretched on wooden frames that can be popped on and off, otherwise consider a double net scrim several feet back to diffuse and darken the view a bit more, as long as it stays out of focus in the wide shots.

I'd also have some big HMI's through diffusion frames in the yard to add more light straight through the lower window when possible.

Inside you could work with Litemats, etc.

Similar approach for the kitchen though if you can keep the stand out of the shot, a ceiling bounce from a daylight Source-4 Leko would be useful. You might see if you can fit and hide a wallspreader above the kitchen dining table to add LED softlights for the kitchen counter or top light over the table. A wall spreader that runs both above the living room window and 90 degrees across the fireplace wall might be helpful if you have to hang some lights inside. Or at least be prepared to put a menace arm on the 2nd floor balconey to arm out a soft light.

Same goes for the foyer, you might need an overhead in there.

Thanks David,

This is super helpful.

How big do you think the HMI's need to be through the lower window? Would 3 4k's do it?

I never thought about the menace arm over the balcony. The living room is small and we'll have 2 cameras so keeping things off the ground is ideal. That along with the Covid protocols of having everyone socially distanced. The more space we have for crew the better.

Hello everyone,

I have a TVC coming up and could use some lighting tips regarding a day interior (living room and kitchen) (pics attached).

My question is how (or if) to utilize the natural light from the windows. More specifically how should I decide between the amount of natural light to use vs. using artificial lights. Or whether to even use natural light and just go artificial keep everything controllable. I have a sizable budget so have the freedom to bring in any lights I'd need and to pre-rig.

It's an open white walled space so light will spill anywhere and while it needs to have a daytime feel I still want to bring in a little contrast to give the scene some shape. 

We are shooting 2 celebrities sitting on the couch talking to each other and looking at a TV off-screen.

We only have them for 4 hours and the windows face NW. I'm advising to shoot mid-day so the sun is high in the sky above the house keeping the light fairly consistent from the window.

Should I play it safe and build a tent outside, block the daylight and shoot HMI's through the windows in the living room (I would still let natural light go through the background windows in the kitchen). We have a lot of pre-light time so we'd be able to do that.. The last thing I want is to get a partly cloudy day and have the light keep changing. I like the controllability of that. With our limited window to shoot I won't have the flexibility to adjust.

Another idea i had is to block out the windows high up on the wall and let light come in the lower windows. Then supplement with a bounced Skypanel or 2 inside to wrap around the front a little. Then line the fill side with floppies and duv for contrast.

Sorry for the length post. I appreciate any suggestions.

Hi,

I was looking to get some advice on lighting a car on a stage with a white cyc (picture attached, floor will be painted white).  We have a 30'x10' Chimera overhead which I hope will do a lot of the work.  The coverage is pretty straightforward-wide of the car and some tighter detailed shots.

I'm sure there are many aspects involved in this but any little tips will help.

Thanks

On 8/9/2019 at 3:32 PM, Stuart Brereton said:

If by ‘free drive’ you mean that the actors will actually driving the car, then a hood mount from a straight on position is extremely ill advised from a safety point of view. Your actor, who will already be splitting their attention between acting and driving, will not be able to see where they are going. I’d guess that this would probably be both uninsurable and illegal.

Hi,

By "free drive" I mean with a stunt driver so we are cleared to mount to the car.  Thanks

On 7/21/2019 at 9:22 PM, David Mullen ASC said:

Since there are car headlights involved, you’d be better off shooting dusk for night (magic hour). If you get lucky and it’s overcast, you could do your tighter coverage in daytime where light sources are not in the frame; or silk everything in the coverage to match the soft light of the wide dusk shots.

Maybe you could get away with DFN if the car is only pointed right into the lens and the lights go out the moment the car stops, and then the bright headlamp glow could be added in post and hopefully no one will notice that the ground in front of the car isn’t being lit by the headlamps. But any other angle and you’d expect the car headlamps to sweep objects in reality as it pulls up. And in DFN, the real headlamps aren’t going to be strong enough to light anything.

DFN works best when the only light source in the scene would be the moon.

Hi David,

Based on your advice I managed to get them to shoot dusk for night.  Phew!

I have another car question for you though.  I am doing a free drive with hood mount for straight on and hostess trays for back passenger windows (separate setups).  I'm wondering if you have any advice on shooting through the windshield.  I'll be using RotoPola but since it's free drive I don't think I can rig anything overtop to help with glare/reflection.  Should the polarizer be enough to see the subjects?  Also, we'll be shooting around midday.

Thanks again for sharing your expertise.

1 hour ago, David Mullen ASC said:

Since there are car headlights involved, you’d be better off shooting dusk for night (magic hour). If you get lucky and it’s overcast, you could do your tighter coverage in daytime where light sources are not in the frame; or silk everything in the coverage to match the soft light of the wide dusk shots.

Maybe you could get away with DFN if the car is only pointed right into the lens and the lights go out the moment the car stops, and then the bright headlamp glow could be added in post and hopefully no one will notice that the ground in front of the car isn’t being lit by the headlamps. But any other angle and you’d expect the car headlamps to sweep objects in reality as it pulls up. And in DFN, the real headlamps aren’t going to be strong enough to light anything.

DFN works best when the only light source in the scene would be the moon.

Thanks David,

Always appreciate your expert advice.  I'll see if I can convince them to move it to dusk.  I think I can avoid seeing headlights.  I just need a close up of a reflection in the review mirror and then the 2 passengers in the back getting out of the car

Hello,

I could use some advice for shooting day for night scenes.  I have a scene where a car drives up to a house, the characters get out and then a wide shot of the house with the characters in front of it.   We will be shooting right around noon.

I'd like to create some kind of a street light feel but if I ND way down I don't know how I can get any light to power through it.

Thanks

Ben