Derek Heeps

Thanks Philip , is this likely to be an issue with my Pentax prime lenses as well ?

I just ordered the adaptor , which was inexpensive , last week and haven't received it yet . Since I'll primarily be shooting outdoors , I expect I'll be stopped down most of the time anyway . 

Hi , I have exactly that lens on my camera which I got only a few weeks ago . While there is nothing particularly wrong with it , I have been shooting video for decades and used to ENG lenses with a proportional controlled motorised zoom , and found out that others here have used adaptors to mount B4 bayonet lenses ( designed for 2/3" video sensors) onto a Bolex ; relevant to my since I have just such a lens upstairs . Of course , if anything , my Canon B4 lens is bigger and heavier than the cine zoom lens I have , but my aim was to be able to use the power zoom with a suitable battery pack .

I have also just ordered a C mount to PK mount adaptor so that I can use my Pentax SLR lenses on the Bolex - in particular my SMC-M series primes , of which I have a good selection .

There are plenty of C mount adaptors to the popular 35mm SLR mounts available , and a 35mm SLR zoom lens of similar range may be lighter and more compact than the cine lens you currently have ; especially lenses designed for APSC size sensor DSLRs - just make sure you get one with manual aperture ring .

On 12/15/2020 at 12:53 AM, Satsuki Murashige said:

I don’t shoot for ‘fun’ anymore. I used to take a Super8 or 16mm camera around on walkabouts (or later a 7D and a 5D), looking for interesting light, or trying out different compositions and exposure or filter effects. But after years of this, as my storage space filled up with film rolls and hard drives that I rarely re-visited, I started to wonder what the point was. I learned a lot early on from experimenting this way, but eventually the process became aimless and unrewarding. Personally, I need an assignment before I pull out a camera these days. It could be a spec project or a simple camera test, but it’s no longer for the simple joy of burning a latent image onto a piece of acetate. 

Still photography is something different, hence why (at least for me) it is the most common answer.

I’m in a similar place : first took an interest in photography early in high school , joined the camera club , learned from others . Sometime in my early teens my dad trusted me with his 8mm Bolex and I shot family holidays , air displays , and trains .

After school , late 70’s , I started working part time in a hifi shop , just as early video equipment started to come in , and also got my first 35mm SLR .

Later , I worked as a school audio visual technician , shooting still images and video , before moving into the conference/hire industry , where again there was some video production, as well as sound, lighting , projection and other stuff . One employer also had a wedding photography business , and I started doing commercial photography ( everything but weddings ) and video production there .

Later , I moved to the fire service AV unit where the work is a mixture of scene photography/videography , PR photography and video production for training / PR . Have been doing that for 20 years now .

Away from work , at some point I got a Minolta Super 8 camera and shot footage around the steam railway in my hometown , also a lot of still images . Down the years I’ve also worked my way through a variety of video formats , shooting things like trains , aircraft , motorsport , historic places , holidays etc .

As I worked more with photography and video over the last 30 years or so , I did less as a hobby ; just this year , having time on my hands , I’ve been doing digital still photography: local places , and started a project tracing my family tree and photographing the graves of my ancestors as I find them .

Having just been given two 16mm Bolexes , I plan to get some film to try them out. Alas the steam railway has been closed this year , but when it reopens it should be a good subject - especially to shoot in monochrome .

13 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

First thing to note, these are all old pieces of equipment. Nobody has made any hi-8 products for nearly 20 years. So things like the pinch roller are totally dried out and probably cracking. This is what keeps the speed of the tape consistent. 

Another thing that happens a lot, is that the control track which defines tracking AND speed, is one of the easiest things to damage. It resides at the very edge of the tape (I believe bottom but don't quote me on that). If this portion of the tape has any damage, (generally caused by a bad pinch roller) then you will have a damaged tape. 

My suggestion this matter is to acquire a commercial Hi-8 VCR like a EVO-9500 which is a very robust and simple machine. They aren't expensive on Ebay and you'll probably get pretty good results because they generally hold up better than cameras do. 

Video8 , Hi-8 did not have.a control track as such ; they employed dynamic tracking by reference to a sine wave that was part of the helical scan , there was also a segment of each track used for PCM digital audio , and on some decks the video segment could be replaced by PCM multi-audio . 

That deck will allow you to capture over FireWire from tapes recorded on your camcorder and to archive edits made on your computer back onto DV tape . It is a good and ruggedly made deck , I used to have one .

However , for a similar outlay , you can now buy an HDV deck which still works with DV and DVCAM but also supports the HDV format . If you get an HDV camcorder later , you can shoot and edit in high definition - a visible improvement over DV and still using the same tapes .

Sony HDV products start with the code HVR and there is a whole range of decks and camcorders.

Here is the entry level deck , which I’ve used myself for a number of years .

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-HVR-M15-HDV-Video-Deck-Plays-Full-Size-and-Mini-Tapes/363208356473?hash=item5490e7b279:g:R6gAAOSwyVZe-Ktt

Instead of merely a DV deck , consider getting an HDV deck .

It will still play existing DV and DVCAM tapes , but also gives you scope to upgrade to HDV later .

HDV camcorders are now quite affordable and allow you to shoot in high definition whilst maintaining backward compatibility with DV 

3 hours ago, Todd Pinder said:

Sell the original Reflex and zoom lens, use that money to CLA the Rex 4 and two prime lenses. Then look for a 75mm or three inch telephoto lens to finish out your primes. Lenses over 50mm do not have to be RX designated to work wide open.

Todd , while that sounds a good idea , it is frowned on at work to sell items given away and keep the money ( or use for another purpose ) it is normally expected that if you dispose of something you give any proceeds to one of the charities supported in the workplace .

Apart from that I quite fancy keeping both cameras and all the lenses .

I’m more inclined to buy a K-Mount adaptor so that I can use my Pentax lenses on the camera , which include primes at 50 , 55 , 70 , 77 , 100 , 120 , 135 and others both shorter and longer .

I will keep updating here with my progress with the cameras .

6 hours ago, Philip Forrest said:

Watch out running that old film. I've found that old Kodachrome emulsions like to flake inside cameras, leaving the gate to be cleaned judiciously, and leaving the film chamber dusted with tiny emulsion flakes, like a bad form of glitter that has the ability to turn to concrete. The REX 4 should definitely be sent out for service then used. Awesome cameras, nice lenses. All good users.

Phil Forrest

Thanks Phil , alas too late as I’d already tried it !

However , I did have to get round the issue of the film being on the spool the wrong way round , so I used my projector to wind it back onto the other spool , whilst pinching it with a piece of cloth as it rewound , nothing came off there , and I’ve just removed the pressure plate and checked the gate , all clean , and nothing obvious inside the camera .

I only ran it through once , but it was enough to tell that the loops form correctly and stay formed over the length of the film .

Im not going to run the camera excessively for now ; up to now I’ve ran it in short bursts without film , and the one time with the old film , just to test and familiarise myself with it . 
 

The next thing will be to purchase a roll of new film and run it through to test the camera , and get it processed .

If all is well and I know there are no major issues , I’ll look into the cost of a routine service and get that done before any further use .
 

Alternatively, I’ve seen DIY servicing guides both on here and elsewhere on the web , and I will do my homework before considering whether or not to have a go myself .

I might have a go with my dads old 8mm S1 first , then if that goes ok , the REX before touching the REX 4 .

I have in the past serviced projectors , tape recorders , vcrs , camcorders and numerous other devices ( including everything mechanical on my cars ) so , as long as I have the proper service manual it doesn’t scare me .

Thanks Dom , yes I’ve seen some of the prices on eBay , although my interest wasn’t so much for monetary value as , initially , just to have the camera as a keepsake and maybe a display item in my living room . I used to have a number of older cameras on display in my living room until my then partner objected ; since we are no longer together I can please myself about such things . 
 

If I feel I’m going to start using the camera regularly then I’ll look into either getting it serviced , or to see how I feel about doing it myself : I have in the past , serviced video kit ranging from U-Matic down to Mini-DV and things like Kodak S-AV projectors , when my employer had about 100 in the hire stock . 

As long as I can obtain a service manual then I would feel reasonably comfortable at exploring it .

If it is just going to be an ornament to sit on the shelf I wouldn’t bother , but I think I might actually use the REX 4 and just leave the other one sitting .

The take up spindle and run release both seem fine . I’m going to load that reel of film that was in the camera and observe how it runs through . The camera seems to run very smoothly without film going through it . Both cameras do .

Thanks again for the advice .

14 hours ago, Mark Dunn said:

The f-stop doesn't change between 35 and 16- you're changing neither the focal length nor the size of the aperture, so the ratio stays the same. All that changes is the field of view. A 50 will be quite long on 16mm- the standard is about 25.

And yes, if you can't stop down and lock the aperture on the lens itself, you will need an adapter that lets you do it. You will be shooting at your working aperture so you will have to get used to a dark viewfinder.

If you put up some photographs here, it may help with some of the questions about eyepieces, finders and such.

The two primes I now have are now 16mm and 25mm . As for my K mount lenses , they range from a 15mm fish eye , shortest ‘normal’ prime being 20mm , although I do have a ( non fisheye ) 15-30mm zoom , and up to max 400mm which would be very long on 16mm .

I have a video lens which comes out to 6.5mm at the wide end .

And a few more : the REX can be distinguished by having no eyepiece and the round tripod mount on the bottom

Above , the first pic is the REX4 , complete with eyepiece and the grip , lens and fader swapped over ; the lower pics are the REX with the two primes and the side finder fitted .

Below are some pics of the REX as was when I got it a few days ago , and one with my dad’s old 8mm S1 which I last used around 1970 .

A further development.

Yesterday I got a phone call from my boss saying he’d found the other Bolex and did I want it as well ...

Picked it up last night and this one is a REX 4 with pistol grip , two primes ( a 16mm Switar and a 25mm Pizar . The REX 4 seems to have a slightly larger reflex finder ( the box section is a bit larger ) and has the all important eyepiece although no  rubber eyecup , but these are readily available ; it also has a non reflex finder on the side . This camera is , if anything , in even better condition than the other one , with the leather cloth just that bit fresher looking , but nothing to complain about on either .
 

Having looked up the serial no against the Bolex collector site , this camera dates from 1966 , as opposed to the other one being a 1960 model .

I swapped the zoom lens , pistol grip and Rex-o-fader over to the REX 4 , and put the two primes plus the side finder onto the REX .

There was even a full 100’ roll of exposed , double perf film still in the REX 4 . It must have been there minimum 20 years and possibly closer to 50 so I see little point trying to process it ; I think I’ll just use it as a test film to check that both cameras load , form loops and run smoothly with film loaded . 

On the REX4 , the loop formers click in nicely enough , but on pressing the release button they were a little slower to jump back out ; repeated operations speeded this up so perhaps it will improve with use ; or perhaps on the REX , which I suspect has seen more use , things are just a bit more worn and looser . 

So , altogether a good find and I now feel I have a camera almost ready to go . I will just need to wait for my finances to recover from the festive season before I can afford to buy some film .

The Wein cell for the ‘electric eye’ in the Kern zoom lens arrived yesterday too , but I haven’t fitted it yet .

Some photos , as requested

Thanks for all the info .

I was only thinking of using the B4 lens and my K mount lenses because I have them already .

I did a search on eBay , which drew a blank , but yes I will google for them .

Re the eyepiece , I think I’ll need to find one elsewhere - the cameras lay in a cupboard for my 20 years there and were never touched ( I don’t think they were used after 1972 , that being the date of the last incident in our archive that was filmed on 16mm ) until our studio was recently cleared out to be converted into office space and the contents shifted into a store ( which we are losing ) by caretakers ( who didn’t seem to take much care ) , besides the other Bolex being nowhere near the one I got , of particular annoyance is that the pantographs and much of the rail system from our Bowens hi glide system appears to have been thrown in a skip ! 

Thanks Phil , that’s very helpful .

Yes my camera does have the turret lock .

The Wein cell was only about £5 from eBay , so if the lifespan is reasonable I can live with that , I did see adaptors to use LR44 cells , so that’s an option too .

Ive been watching eBay for a K mount adaptor but no luck so far .

Yep , that looks pretty good , and I already have 15mm rods for my matte box , so support would be easy enough .

I was also thinking the video lens would be easier to handhold since I could use the handgrip , and cobble up some sort of shoulder pad , maybe from an old video camera . 
 

So , your B4 lens covers the 16mm frame without vingetting ? 

As per my other thread , I recently obtained an H16 REX with the Kern-Paillard 18-86mm F2.5 Vario-Switar zoom lens .

It seems a very nice lens and my main initial thought is that it may be a bit limited at the wide end ; obviously depending on what I’m going to shoot .

I know there are various C-mount adaptors to other systems , so my main interest would be to look for a Pentax K adaptor since I’ve been shooting Pentax since the mid seventies and have built up a reasonable selection of glass , although use with the Bolex would likely be only with my SMC-M lenses from the film era , sadly since my DA Limited lenses require electronic control of aperture from the camera body .

It also occurs to me that I have some ENG video lenses that might work ; in particular the Canon YJ12x6.5B4 which is a 6.5mm-78mm zoom ( with 2x multiplier ) hence quite a bit wider at the wide end and longer with the multiplier in.

I used this lens on my Sony DSR500WSP which had 3x 2/3” native 16:9 sensors ; I need to check , but I’m guessing a 2/3” sensor must be a similar size to a 16mm frame , so the image circle ought to cover the 16mm frame . This lens ( like most ENG lenses ) has manual focus , zoom and aperture rings .

The big question would be whether anyone makes C-mount to B4 adaptors ? I can always try IronGlass since they made me a 2/3” to 1/3” adaptor to allow me to use the lens on my JVC GY-HD251 which is a 1/3” camcorder.

There is also the question of weight of this lens , but it is not all that much longer or heavier than the Kern lens .

I will also need to consider how to expose correctly. I do still have my old Weston Master V light meter from days shooting still film and I recall it has scales for cine .

The question here is whether the indicated aperture on the lens ( for example a 35mm film lens set to , say , f5.6 , won’t actually be f5.6 on a 16mm frame ? ) I’m thinking that only using part of the circle there will be a ‘stopping down’ factor ? Again I’m pretty hazy on this , but if memory serves , each f stop represents half the light getting through , so if I compare the area of a 16mm frame to that of a 35mm one , that should give me the conversion factor ?

Same with the video lens , but if the two frame sizes are similar it might be negligible.

Last thought , I may have asked this over on my other thread , can’t recall , but the H16 REX has a gelatin filter holder which slots in between the lens and the shutter . It occurred to me that it would be quite easy to fashion a 16:9 crop mask to slot in there so as to shoot a 16:9 crop within the 16mm frame . Has anyone done this ?

While very easy to crop to 16:9 during telecine , it might be nice to be able to project at 16:9 straight off the film ? 

Hi , just through the week I was given a Bolex H16 camera , as there was a clear out of old kit going on at work and I was asked if there was anything I would like . I thought I was perhaps chancing my luck a bit when I asked my boss if I might have one of the two Bolexes I had oft admired in my 20 years there , and was mildly surprised when told just to take one . The one I could see had a large zoom lens fitted ; I know the other ( which was nowhere to be seen ) has two smaller primes on the turrets .

A bit of background about myself - after school , I did Electrical & Electronic Engineering at Uni , halfway through the course decided it wasn't for me and went from a part time job in a hifi shop to full time , audio being my main interest back then , although I also did still photography , first medium format with an old Rolleiflex T I picked up , then I bought my first SLR , a Pentax KM back in 1976 or so ( this will be relevant later ) . Besides still photography , I shot some Standard 8 cine film using my dad's Bolex S1 , and later got a Minolta Super 8 ( still have both of these cameras , as well as two Eumig P8 protectors and a Eumig Mark S 702 ( I think ) dual gauge sound projector . I also have an Elf NT-1 16mm projector , which I have used to telecine various films .

When the owner of the hifi shop died and the shop closed , I became a school audio visual technician , which I did for seven years , then I moved into the conference/presentation industry where I did sound , lighting , projection , set building - everything really for events large and small . With the advent of early home video kit , I had used VHS/SVHS/Video8/Hi-8/MiniDV/HDV kit , and at work cut my teeth with lo-band U-Matic and Sony Type V suites , as I'm sure many others did , working up through Hi-band , Beta , Digi Beta and currently working with XDCAM , and at work editing on Premiere and using FCP on my Macs at home . 

So , anyway , I was given this Bolex , on Tuesday this week . When I got home , I went on the net looking for a user manual to read up - I found the Bolex Collector website where , from the serial number stamped on the tripod bush I learned that I have an H16 REX from 1960 , my camera also has the REX fader and the Kern-Paillard Vario-Switar 1:2.5 18-86mm zoom lens . This lens has a metering unit attached which gives an auto aperture function , powered by an old PX-13 mercury battery . I removed the old corroded battery , and have ordered an equivalent 'air cell' which purports to be a suitable replacement - we shall see ( I have had past experience of replacing Mercury 1.35V cells with modern substitutes , both in my Omega f300 watch and in my Rollei 35S camera ) .

Besides downloading a manual , I found someone on eBay selling original , paper manuals , so I ordered one of these as well . I've spent a couple of evenings going through the downloaded manual and familiarising myself with the camera , once I get the battery , I'll try to get a short end from somewhere so that I can try the camera out - I see there are a few online vendors selling black and white stock on 100 ft reels , with processing included ( need to make sure it's reversal stock and not negative ! ) so one way or the other I hope to shoot something over the holidays and try the camera out .

The camera winds up and runs smoothly , the loop formers work fine and everything else seems to work as described in the manual .

A few questions , please .

Winding up - I'm a bit nervous of overwinding it - how many turns is it safe to wind the handle , to get , I believe around 30 seconds of shooting time ? Or does the handle go tight when fully would , I've only given it maybe six to ten cranks before chickening out , but I believe in being cautious with things I don;t yet fully understand .

The viewfinder , I have figured out the focus wheel near the rear of the finder to suit my eyesight , and the little shutter near the front . All online illustrations I've seen show an eyepiece at the rear of the finder , which presumably magnifies the image , and allows attachment of a rubber eyecup - I have neither the eyepiece or the rubber eyecup . I have seen plenty of eyecups for sale , but not the eyepiece , which presumably screws into the threaded hole at the back of the finder ?

Are there different viewfinders applicable to this model ? I have seen numerous different ones for sale on eBay , but mostly they are the side attaching ones for the non-reflex cameras , the one on the top of the camera does look as though it might detach somehow , but I haven't tried to remove it .

I mentioned earlier my starting out with Pentax in the mid seventies - well I worked my way up the range until I had both two MX cameras and two LX cameras , plus a good selection of SMC-M K-mount lenses . I used the two LX cameras professionally for two decades before dipping a toe into the digital world with a pair of *istD bodies ( which I since gave one each to my children ) and currently have a K-3 , K-01 and K-1 as well as a selection of lenses , modern and old . The modern lenses rely on the camera to control aperture , but the old manual ones don't , so I'm wondering if there are C mount to K mount adaptors out there which might let me use some of my Pentax lenses on the Bolex ?

Also , I need to read up on my theory , but for example f1.7 covering a 35mm frame won't be the same aperture when covering a 16mm frame , will it ? There must be some conversion involved since aperture is all about a ratio of light being admitted ....

I do still have my old Weston Master V light meter which I recall has cine functions , so should help me to meter using manual lenses , also have a modern Gossen spot meter . 

Last question , I note that just behind the lens mount there is a slider , which is a filter holder for gelatin filters . Could one insert a mask there to crop the image to 16:9 format ? I realise it won't be Super 16 ( I do have a friend who shoots Super 16 on his two Eclair cameras , and I need to get in touch for some tips - and maybe a short end ! ) but it might be useful to be able to crop to that ratio . Does anyone make a properly machined insert for this ? 

This will be something of a learning curve for me , but I hope to make use of the camera , initially just as a hobby , but perhaps I'll get further into film as I go on .

Sorry for all the questions , but this is all new to me - I'm not here to find answers and disappear next week or next month = when I take things up I generally stick with them .

Kind regards 

Derek