Dimitrios Koukas

I'm shooting a short which has a scene taking place in a very small (three 2½m wide walls, one has a window with shades) interior set with some furniture and an actor. Mostly close ups or medium shots, but also one or two wider shots.

I was planing to put an 8x8' ½ sailgrid overhead as a "ceiling" with six or eight 1k par64s punching through it to create a soft overall light . I also have three 650w fresnels and variety of small openfaces to light some details.

Any opinions on this setup would be nice, especially about my overhead lightsource if it's going to work properly. I'm shooting HDV with Sony FX1.

hello,

Film or Video?What camera or how many ASA?Also how many FPS?

It looks to me you are planning to use too much light for this room.

If you don't have any special effect like slow motion or anything ?

Dimitrios Koukas

All,

I have a Sankyo Super CM 600, and I was wondering if anyone might know offhand what its shutter angle is? Thanks!

BR

Hello Bryan,

I don't know the type of your camera, but is there any possibility to remove the lens and measure the angle?

Dimitrios Koukas

This may be a silly question, but, even though a film like 50D is balanced for daylight, is it true that I should still use the 85 filter, to ensure warmer, more saturated colors?

Best

BR

actually,

When u re using a daylight stock, the result will be almost the same as u look thru any coloured filter thru a naked eye, but not more than 3 seconds, u see the human eye has an ''auto colour correction'' installed from mother nature :) and it will try to compensate and balance the difference.

Dimitrios Koukas

More like this:

 

Thank u Boone,

Yes that's an ansynchronised shuter.It just that I couldn't understand what excactly he wanted by his description, now is more clear.

By the way can I ask something? How can u make the images appear in the posts and not as a thumbnail?

Dimitrios Koukas

I've always assumed that DP's are just carrying lenses around with them, but are they actually range finders? I'm referring to when a DP walks around in preproduction framing in shots through what appears to be an ordinary lens.

 

It seems like a great idea, and it's something I'd like to do when coming up with storyboards and shot lists. Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

One old technic is to make a frame with your both hands , palms straith and fingers closed with only the thumbs open and their tips connected.When u bring your palms near your eye, it's a wide-angle, when u move it away, u 's going for the telephoto.

But it need some experience though, no focal lenghts displayed! :)

Dimitrios Koukas

Hello.

 

I will be a gaffer in a short film in super 16 mm next week, one of the scenes takes place in a large living room which has a big window in one side (it's about 10 X 10 ft), the d.o.p would like two burn this window but not too much, just to get a big light wall, he also want it to look like the diffusion I'm using is on or close to the window and not far away from it.

I can not use white diffusion on the windows because each side of the window is more than 4 ft and I wouldn't want to have lines on the windows (like when you put two white diff. next to each other you get a very small line of light) and also it's expansive and it's a low budget production.

I also thought about using a 12X12 ft silk 1/4 or 1/2 and put it behind the window - but now I'm worried about seeing what's in between the window and the silk frame.

p.s. I'm lighting it with a few baby 2k or blondies and maybe they will be bounced.

Do you have any suggestions for this scene, or maybe you know of a different material for getting this affect, maybe something cheaper and bigger then a 4 ft white diffusion.

I would appreciate your help

Mosh

Hello,

If it's a low budget, u can use tracing paper instead of cine-diffusion, it will cost you much less. What time of the day you are shooting?

As for the big silk frame behind the window, if it will ever been seen or not has to do with the exposure.

U can burn out one window and it's background without putting anything on it sometimes.

Some details of plants or things near the window they will show up though.

Dimitrios Koukas

Though I'm sure this effect has been done before, it was the first time I had seen it while watching the new Missy Elliot's "Teary Eyed" music video. I am referring to the shots (mostly the street night exterior of the car driving) where the image looks clean and then white smears run vertically from the frame originating from the hot spots and then disappear to a clean image again. It looks as though it is a miss-timed shutter effect however I didn't know it was possible to miss-time and then correct the shutter timing in the middle of the shot (almost like ramping speed or something). Maybe I'm way off and that is not how they did it, or perhaps it's a digital fx from post. Regardless, does anyone have any insight on how this was accomplished whether it was in-camera or a post?

Is it this what u were talkin about?

Dimitrios Koukas

Hi,

 

Dimitrios,

 

For a commercial 700-1500 is the general range in Switzerland. It may be one of the richeat countries in the world per capita. However with a population of 7 million and 3 main launguages! Everything has to be finished in 3 languages and different packshots! The jobs I get with a decent budget are International commercials.

 

I guess basic wages are nearer 2800 euro's per month, depending on where you live.

 

Stephen

Hello stephen!

I believe that you are doing the direction in some commercials too?

Dimitrios Koukas

Sorry Dim,

That page has stuck your head into the mouth of the lion!. Look at the tables, All the quoted amounts hold true. Please remember what I said before:

 

* the one exception being collimated light of the type produced by lasers. Collimated light has light waves which are precisely parallel and do not spread out - and so such light does not follow the inverse square law.

 

Some of your lights are collomated sourses so the law does shift a litttle ( not significantly though) from the law.

Take an example light like this one in the diagram. By doubling the distance the light is a quater. Do this for any of the lights listed in your diagram, taking into account the collimated lights ALL these light hold true on the inverse law.

 

Tell me I didnt study 4 years of photometry for nothing? LOL

And know that I was keep wondering, and used your type too, look what I ve found.

Check this HMI in the flood position.Please any corrections will do just good to me, so correct me if I am wrong.

Dimitrios Koukas

I've been hearing talk about these "Firestarter" PAR 64 bulbs that are apparently the highest output par 64 lamps on the market. I understand they are 1350w VNSP lamps that will work in a 1K can.

 

I've searched online for them, but can't find out who manufactures or supplies them. Is "Firestarter" a brand or a nickname? Does anybody know about these or where to find them in the LA area?

 

Thanks

Hello Matt,

I believe it's the aircraft lights you re lookin for?http://surplus.net/solomon/landing.htm

I haven't heard of the 1350W bulb, I know that they come in 250-650W/ 8 lights chain or 4 lights chain and each lamp works at 28 voltAC

This configuration is for 230VAC, so probably in LA they have a different Wattage.So ask for aircraft lights to see what u can find?

They have more output and quicker ''flashing'' speeds.

Dimitrios Koukas

I think it's http://www.cinematography.net/Files/film.zip

That's a nice software, but it doesn't help a lot with light fixtures,

U see it says for example tungsten light output in 1 meter, but u cannot calculate the same light for flood or spot adjustments.

It's really rough.

Dimitrios Koukas

Boy, do I disagree with that statement.

It's MUCH easier to get a good image with 16mm than with Super 8.

The smaller the format, the MORE work on your filming you're going to do, unless you don't care about how it looks, and if that's the case, then shoot it on DV.

 

MP

To add something to it,

The big advertising companies, know the differences between the different media.

U can't just walk in and tell them I want to shoot this in S8! Or even DV.

Only if you have examples for a specific look that you want to achieve, but either way, I would do it 35mm and then do whatever I want in the post.With the excellent technologies that we use today, that getting better and better as the time passes, there is no need anymore to shoot something on S8 to make it look like S8!

More option when u use better formats.

What if you do something that they finally the client doesn't like it?

No way back. Can you ask to reshoot? I don't think so.

Dimitrios Koukas

We had to get our 4x5 mattebox, anti-reflection filter holder, and 6 1/2" round Polas all shaved down in thickness in order to use them with all of our Primo anamorphic lenses without vignetting (and that barely works for the 35mm Primo anamorphic).

Hello,

David,

How did you shaved them down?

Do u mean the metal ring?

Dimitrios Koukas

hello ,,,

i made 2 films as a director, for my new film i cant pay a DOP, so i will do it myself...i ll be shooting during 2 monthes with 5 persones crew so it will be realy hot for me , to direct , to d o p, and to stay cool and not to loose ppl's trusts ,,,hoooo

i ll use XTR AAton super 16, ,,ok , i ll read well the camra notes, i have already " the american cinematographer manual " ,,but honestly i know nothing about film stock and filters,,,you see ? i have basics knowlge,i can charge the magazine, i can read light ,,,,,brrr,,i am loosing my nerves 3 monthes before the shooting.

is there anything to do in three monthes to learn more ? ok, i ll make tests with different stocks ,,,but is there books or films or webs or anything fot such situation ??

 

thanks

ivan

First of all what film stock are you going to use?

You have to learn specific details about how u will colour correct your lights or put a filter on the camera, in case you have an exterior and you are shooting with tungsten fil, or the opposite, interior with daylight film, or mixed light sources.

Do you know how to form the loop correctly for the Aaton?In case some of your crew forget?

Do some registration tests and lens tests, also stock tests.

That's for a start.

Dimitrios Koukas

Thanks guys. Thats now a pretty comprehensive list. Since I started I may as throw in a few names. Gaspar Noe before Irreversible. Andrzej Sekula, he shot Resevoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, American Psycho then turned to directing and I think back again. Andrzej Bartkowiak who shot Speed and Falling Down now directs (Romeo Must Die, Doom). How about steadicam-operators-turned-directors, Guy Bee anyone.

I ve got another one,

Jan De Bont.''Speed'' with Sandra Bullock was his first one, and succeded well.

Dimitrios Koukas

Hello,

Just a small advise, I ve worked with front projected lasers before, u have to flag out/cut all the light that falls on the scrim, and also don't use too much light behind it, it will ruin your effect.

Just a suggestion.

Dimitrios Koukas

Any ideas on constructing a light wall that might go behind a band? The catch!...LOW BUDGET. First thought is build a frame and attach lights to the frame, link and control. Also, I want it to be controlable. Just wondered if anyone has experience with something like this. Something like this...

 

http://64.207.133.64/spotPopupMovie.php?id=1133&qual=1

 

Low cost is key.

 

Thanks!

There is a light from DHA that is called light curtain, If this is the effect you want to do?In case that u want just a really blown-up background, something like projected lights on it, u should try a huge silk frame with some parcans overhead falling on in like lines maybe?

Dimitrios Koukas

Dear All,

 

Thanks for your response.

 

Right now I am facing another reality. The producetion decided to go for S16mm using an Aaatoon XTR. I spoke with the camera rental house and they told me that the Aatoon can't get the shutter angle to 210 or 360. You can only open the shutter angle. The only alternative to get the blurred effect will be shooting in 6fps and transfer it in 6fps. Do you have any recommendation in how to create the blurred effect?

 

Thanks

 

V.

Hello,

Aaton XTR doesn't have a variable shutter at all, only comes with 180 degrees for countries that use 60Hz, and with an fixed shuter of 172,8 degrees for countries that use 50hz.

Is there any specific reason that you want to change shutter angles? Can't u use another camera just for the shot you want? It needs some caution when u mix 16mm material though, cause you might have registration problems.

And remember that the effect you want to achieve, (as mr. Mullen have allready explained) it needs to be shot at 6fps, the telecine must play 6 fps, but the recording output of the telecine should be on 24 fps.So u transfer it to 24 fps not 6.

Dimitrios Koukas

Can I get the smeary blurry image of 10 FPS transferred at 10 FPS in Varicam. I shot one shot at 10 FPS 144 degree shutter (perhaps the mistake) the footage looked great on the monitor and the viewfinder. Perfectly blurred. Then I get Dailies back and the images are step framed no smearing. Darn! What do I do?

Bob,

Is there any possibility that someone tried to ''fixed'' it?

Dimitrios Koukas

The Germans are everywhere!! Weren't it enough to go to the Moon?

 

Or cant you just launch Turkey into space? .. oh sorry they still call it Germany?

 

LOL

Is it getting political? This topic I mean.

What you can do is use an archtects software to do the floor plans and then add some fixtures , but a I don't know if there is a program that has fixture's FC outputs, only some by osram, but this isn't for cinematography use, just for domestic.Ot maybe try this link http://www.mckernon.com/

Dmitrios Koukas

Exactly -- that's why I said it depends on the telecine (among other things). Just a word of caution, not an absolute rule. First time it bites you you learn the difference! ;)

Sorry Michael,

I ve missed that part.

Dimitrios

Is it possible to shoot (pictures) a great amount of frames every second example: 15 frames per second. Is it also possible to shoot it with the pd 150 or pdx10 with or without additional software? Ill really appreciate an response thanks alot.

Christopher,

what is excactly that you want to achive?

If you just want a time lapse , let's say of a city that frturns from night into day, then all u have to do is let your camera shoot about half houlr from dawn to sunset.

And then u load the material and run it in the post.

Dimitrios Koukas

Do they change color characteristics any as they're dimmed?

Christopher,

To be honest it was a tv set-up and I really don't remember that we had a tremendous amount of Kelvin changes, but I will ask again to give you a more accurate answer.

I believe that it's the physical characteristics of the fluorescent lamps to don't change the temperature while dimmed.

I believe this happens bellow 40% of dimming.

I am attaching you the brochure, unfortunately not saying anything about it.

In a week or so I will have the first order in my hands so I can do some tests for you.

The plus of this lights are: low working temperature, even softlight, great energy saving (4x55W, equals 1KW output), DMX controllable in a chain or separately dimmered, no need for extra dimmer packs,(they have one installed on each fixture).So what you do is just make a DMX loop, assign them in the same channels or separate channels (for pairing or one by one control), and then u take the last DMX cable and hook it to the lighting desk (usually at the 513-1024 port) if you have other studio lights assigned on the 1-512 channels.

Dimitrios Koukas

nesylite_en.pdf

Hey,

I ended up getting a 400' roll of 7285 because the director was very excited about the idea of reversal, and he loves to shoot lots, so we were both happy. The shoot was this past weekend. We had a disaster the first day when we shot on film, but made up for it in flying colors on the second day. Shooting on an Arri S, MOS, what happened the first day was that the film was loaded too tight in the loop (we think) and because of that, the camera tore some perfs, and jammed. We heard it, and checked it, but somehow didn't catch it, everything felt all right in the changing bag. So we put her back together and kept shooting the rest of the day (not hearing anything out of the ordinary). When my AC went to to download, we found to our horror that the film hadn't rolled an inch. THe whole day was for nothing. On the plus side, we saved about 350' of the film to use later. We rallyed the next day, and shot it all digital (including reshooting the dream sequences) and we were all VERY happy with what we got, and we did two days worth of shooting in literally the exact amount of time we had originally scheduled to shoot one. So lesson learned, not too much money burned, and in the end, a final product the director and i are happy about. I'll post a few screen shots on this thread within a couple of days. Thanks for all your input, much appreciated!

Steve

:blink: :blink: :blink:

Dimitrios

ok, i read about diffusion it is indeed creating softlight, my question now, what material can one use for this, is there any practical material that can handle the heat or do i need some specialty material? Thanks again, sorry if i'm being a bother :)

As I have allready suggested you, have a look for the china lanters you can found in IKEA or simillar stores, u know the round white ones covered with paper?Easy to rig and very light.

This will give u a diffused more ellegant softlight that is good for filming.

But I am not saying that the hard light fixtures aren't something that u can't use!

This has to do with the overall aesthetical approach of your movie.

I do not know where you can find the diffusion matterial that can stand heat ,I just know some brands like

LEE, ROSCO, and Chris James (if this still excists).And yes it is specialised material. So depending on your location you should find a dealler for them.

Basic diffusion numbers are 216, 250 and 251. Also there is always spun glass that works for the same effect and doesn't reduce the colour temperature so much.

Dimitrios Koukas