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Mr. Shannon W. Rawls

24f turns out to be as good or better then 24p...

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I think the problem with calling the Canon HD camera "24P" is just that it seems misleading, whether or not it is arguably accurate. Convention is to reserve the 24P label to cameras that actually capture 24P (i.e. have progressive-scan chips capturing 24 times per second.)

 

When you try and use a term outside of the common usage, you run the risk of being misunderstood or being accused of trying to mislead, so it's simply safer to refer to the Canon as 24F, not 24P, and avoid all of these arguments, unless for the next few years you look forward to having these same arguments over and over again.

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...if you can avoid SR's I would- both the SR1 and the SRW-5000 are a pain to use. Having said that I always find it ammusing spending an hour or so trying to get my head round the worst Menus ever created. So if you are going down the SR route leave yourself some prep time.

The SRW-1 is a pain to use? I don't think so. It's a field deck with a fairly simple and straightforward menu system. Now the 5000...that's another story.

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The SRW-1 is a pain to use? I don't think so. It's a field deck with a fairly simple and straightforward menu system. Now the 5000...that's another story.

 

I don't know any professional stupid enough not to spend some time at prep getting to know a camera or deck before heading out on the road with it. I'd expect to spend an hour or two at the rental house going over the SRW1 deck, but my point is that I suspect -- based on reports from the field by people like Scott Billups -- that it is easier to use than some of the data recording systems out there like by S-Two.

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The SR1 in general is easy to use (though I would not go anywhere near to saying it has a "fairly simple and straightforward menu system") if it is prepped right and you dont need to make any changes then fine. If you do then I'd hold my hand and say I think its a bitch. The 5000 is even more of a fiddle if your wanting to work round the menu system- just changing the output frame rate takes several menu moves and a couple of restarts. I have used both enough to feel that they should be second nature but they're not. The menus on both are way over complicated and the simplist things frequently involve restarting the whole system. I am not saying I wouldn't use them, I'm just saying they are by far the most pain in the ass decks I have ever come accross. My real gripe is that all the obvious things are tucked away in the same endless menus as the stuff you'd barely touch, which means that a simple thing like changing the playback speed is as complicated as changing the colour of the TC super. I suppose I wish they were as simple to use as a Digi deck. They could be- Sony just likes to infuriate people I guess.

 

Keith

Edited by keith mottram

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Why use the that HDCAM back anyways? It seems it is primarly made for docking to sony.com"When connected to its companion HDCF950 camera, the SRW-1/SRPC-1 creates a high quality portable HD image-capturing system." Why would you pay $750 a day to hook up this great deck to a inferior camera. How could your XLH1 even compare to a F900 just because it is recording SR? Why don't you just bit the bullet and rent a F900 or for close to what you are already spending just rent a Varicam. IMHO I would say that would look way better especially with the superior lens available with those cameras. If you are using the stock lens on the XLH1 how can that compare to a 2/3inch piece of glass. I don't think there is a 2/3inch piece of glass that costs less than your camera. The stock canon lens is a servo driven lens(motor driven) so focus and iris aren't near as smooth or as acurate as a real lens. Also you will have much shallower depth with the 2/3inch cameras.

 

Also to end all of the confusion on 24f and 24p for you. How bout we take what your buddy Barry Green said:

Barry_Green

09-16-2005, 07:49 PM

All indications are that the "24f" is not something bogus like de-interlaced 1080i. It is, however, causing a lot of confusion -- so I do hope that as soon as someone gets one of these things in their hands, they have the opportunity to simply shoot a resolution chart in both 1080i mode and "24f" mode. Then we can answer one question instantly: if the 24F frame is lower in resolution than the 1080i frame, then it is unquestionably "bogus" (i.e., not the equivalent of actual 24p). If the 24f frame is higher resolution than the 1080i frame, well, we may very well have us a horse race.

 

Then we take your shootout specs Adam Wilt prepared:

HDW-F900/3 CineAlta 2/3" 1920x1080p 1000+ 1000+

Canon XLH1 1/3" 1440x1080i 800- 700+ 24f mode(540)

Sony HVR-Z1U 1/3" 960x1080i 550 700+ 24f mode(540)

Panasonic AG-HVX200 1/3" ???x1080p 550? 540?

 

Adam Wilt

"Of the 1/3" cameras, the 1440-pixel, 1080i Canon XL H1 was the clear winner in horizontal resolution, and it was second only to the 1920-pixel CineAlta. I see almost 800 TVL/ph from it, with minimal aliasing above that: an astonishingly good performance.

 

In 60i, vertical resolution was a solid 700+ lines; in 24f mode, we thought it looked like half-resolution material on the monitors, consistent with what you'd get with field-doubling. Looking at the captured clips, especially the Combi-2.3's bullseyes, I'd have to say that it certainly looks like field-doubled vertical sampling, with about 540 TV lines usable, although certain aspects of the image "feel" sharper. I'm not sure how to describe it, but perhaps Canon's secret sauce for creating 24f results in a perceptually sharper picture than plain field-doubling, even if the clues I can glean from the interference patterns on the bullseyes would indicate otherwise. "

Edited by johnhollywood

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F.U.D.

 

We can argue specs all day long. But my "eyes" tell me something different. And, in the end, that's all that's important. Because Johnny Netflix doesn't care and he certainly doesn't count scan lines.

Edited by Starway2001

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Shannon,

 

How are those H1's working out for you? I just picked mine up and I'm absolutely in love with it.

 

I call it my F900-JR.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob Sanders

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Hey Rob,

 

They're working out excellently. The biggest gratification is the final image and how nice it looks for a video camera for this price. Since you have one, is it cool if I add you to my rolodex for future work as a director? What do you specialize in?

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Hi,

There are side by side resolution charts in the latest issue of Showreel magazine showing the Z1, XLH1 and HD100 cameras in interlaced and progressive modes.

Sharpest overall picture is the XLH1 in interlaced mode, by a lot. Preferred progressive option is the HD100.

Go, buy magazine! Read article!

Phil

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Hey Rob,

 

They're working out excellently. The biggest gratification is the final image and how nice it looks for a video camera for this price. Since you have one, is it cool if I add you to my rolodex for future work as a director? What do you specialize in?

 

But of course! Are you kidding?

 

You can check out my stuff on my Website...

 

www.starwaypictures.com

 

And my Blog (man, that sounds pretentious)...

 

The Starway Blog

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Today I was at what is now my regular equipment rental house(ive just become a client after years of procrastinating and using another local production companies gear) and the manager, who i had met up with at a festival gala a couple nights before, invited me to have a look at the HD cameras that he currently had in-house(unfortunately his F-900 was on hire) . We ended up with the JVC-HD100, the Canon XL H1 and a Sony F-750 lined up on a bench all hooked up to the one HD monitor (the XL H1 and the F-750 via HD-SDI). We set up all the cameras the same and compared the images that the cameras produced. The top of the pick naturally was the F-750. Neither of the HDV cameras came anywhere near it at all for colour, depth, detail, the HDV cameras had very obvious compression artifacts, so basically everything about the F-750 was better, but with 2/3 chips and a price tag close to 10x that of the others, you would expect that.

 

After the F-750 as far as Image went the XL H1 was the next best pick. Nowhere near the F-750, but its colour reproduction. linearity and detail was far superior to the HD100, its lens seemed to be significantly better glass than the JVC's Fugimon, however out of the two the HD100 was by far the nicest to operate, it had great balance and erogonomics when on the shoulder in comparison to the front heavy design of the XLH1. I also must note that the XL H1 is the companies most popular HDV model. Unfortunately they are still waiting on the DVX200, but the vibe that they are getting is very skeptical about P2 and entrusting footage to a Hard Drive.

 

Just thought id share the excitement of my day with you... they joys of being a boring old film student and not actually getting out their and using the stuff often enough.

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