Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi Bruce I may one day take you up on your offer! Many times I have looked at my finances to see how I could swing it.. I have bookmarked your site and occasionally visit.. This is the reason I have been Keen on Ultra.. (Cost) Hi, Out of interest what lenses are you going to use if you convert your camera to ultra 16. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi, Out of interest what lenses are you going to use if you convert your camera to ultra 16. Stephen Hi Stephen Zeiss Mk.I 16mm format T1.3 primes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi Stephen Zeiss Mk.I 16mm format T1.3 primes Hi, Well the results will look good whatever format you shoot! Why not just shoot with lower speed films and forget the Ultra-16 bit? Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tim Carroll Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi, Well the results will look good whatever format you shoot! Why not just shoot with lower speed films and forget the Ultra-16 bit? Stephen Stephen has a good point. I shot for years with an Arriflex 16SR that was regular 16. Used slower film stocks and taped the fiber optics screen to 16:9. Shot a 16:9 framing chart at the head of roll one and had the lab telecine the footage 16:9. Anything short of a blow up to 35mm or 2K HD and you really aren't going to notice the difference that much. And then you don't screw up your camera in case you decide to sell it someday. And there is no lab or telecine house that I know of that cannot handle Regular 16. Just a thought, -Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Swaim Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 you like your camera, fair enough. if you didn't already have great lenses I would suggest grabbing a anamorphic zoom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 if you didn't already have great lenses I would suggest grabbing a anamorphic zoom. For 16mm? Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi, Well the results will look good whatever format you shoot! Why not just shoot with lower speed films and forget the Ultra-16 bit? Stephen If Ultra offers no possibility then Of course I will.. Films have been made using ultra already and even a gate has been muted.. I do understand some annoyance regarding Ultra. After all why not buy a super arri sr11 or rent one even? The problem for me is I want to make Films but Its expensive who knows when the creative process in me may become obsessional enough that I devote all my energy to this.. and what if at the end of it I have something really good? BUT You cant distribute it or do anything with it because it cant be Blown up to 35mm..OR The studio wont except anything less than super 16 or equivilent or some other reason holding it back.. I will never get the chances or breaks working in the Industry everything I do has to be done by me Im not one of lifes butt kissers and Im my own person If I make films it has to be my rules My vision and because I dont have the resources to do this Properly I have to count costs to me the Super conversion is a lot of dosh and the Ultra isnt.. The standard academy frame is a problem because its out of fashion..Other than that I think its as good as any format It must be annoying to those that are financially above this.. Perhaps Film is only for those that have had success with it or part of the Establishment Perhaps My lack of finances make me an Irritant? However one thing I know ULTRA would give me More Picture for little Money More Future proofed and better Quality EVEN if it was not Utilised and just an academy frame was taken the fact is its there in the wings.. An e-mail I had from the 8mm site told me they could telecine ULTRA16 it was a question of just pulling back on the Film a simple enough Procedure.. As for a gate to blow up to 35mm.. Bet one is made in the future.. Part of my reason for this thread was in the hope a gate may already be made and in use. Or any other news and if there isnt if the format dies it surely didnt hurt to ask? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 An e-mail I had from the 8mm site told me they could telecine ULTRA16 it was a question of just pulling back on the Film a simple enough Procedure.. Hi, They may say they can zoom back, but I think you will be dissapointed. They have a MK III telecine I think. If they use the S16 gate they will let the benefit of Ultra 16 but only on 1 Side! They can zoom back to the edge of the normal gate, not into the perf area! Cheers Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Stephen has a good point. I shot for years with an Arriflex 16SR that was regular 16. Used slower film stocks and taped the fiber optics screen to 16:9. Shot a 16:9 framing chart at the head of roll one and had the lab telecine the footage 16:9. Anything short of a blow up to 35mm or 2K HD and you really aren't going to notice the difference that much. And then you don't screw up your camera in case you decide to sell it someday. And there is no lab or telecine house that I know of that cannot handle Regular 16. Just a thought, -Tim Tim you make good points and I agree with you! I think its likely you would agree with this statement too If you had a 16mm Camera and you could convert it safely to ultra for Pin money and you finances didnt stretch to super wouldnt it make sense to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 If you had a 16mm Camera and you could convert it safely to ultra for Pin money and you finances didnt stretch to super wouldnt it make sense to do this? Hi, Spend the money on film, filters, DVD player or anything else! Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Swaim Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 For 16mm? Stephen I was under the impression that ARRI made a 16mm ultra-scope lens, am i wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tim Carroll Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 If you had a 16mm Camera and you could convert it safely to ultra for Pin money and you finances didnt stretch to super wouldnt it make sense to do this? No. Simple as that. By changing your camera over to a non-standard and non-supported format, you kill the resale value(something you might not be concerned about with a BL but something I was concerned about with an SR) and what does it get you? Headaches when you are trying to find someone, anyone who has an Ultra 16 gate (which is the only way you could get any real benefit from the extra image area) and I know of no one who can do an Ultra 16 to 35 blow up. Shooting with slower film stocks and the Regular 16 gate allows you to use a wide variety of available labs and telecine houses and places that will blow your film up to 35mm if you happen to shoot a masterpiece. Talk to Robert Rodriguez and others who have shot movies in Regular 16mm and had "Hollywood" interested in their films. There was no problem blowing their films up for cinema release. If you write a good enough story, cast good actors, direct it and edit it well, no one is going to care if it is regular 16, and it is certainly not going to be more salable because it is Ultra 16. -Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi, They may say they can zoom back, but I think you will be dissapointed. They have a MK III telecine I think. If they use the S16 gate they will let the benefit of Ultra 16 but only on 1 Side! They can zoom back to the edge of the normal gate, not into the perf area! Cheers Stephen Why cant they pull back on the Standard Gate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi, They may say they can zoom back, but I think you will be dissapointed. They have a MK III telecine I think. If they use the S16 gate they will let the benefit of Ultra 16 but only on 1 Side! They can zoom back to the edge of the normal gate, not into the perf area! Cheers Stephen Thinking about this even if they used a S16 gate you would still get an increase on Picture size over standard 16mm.. meaning less cropping...Yes? Perhaps this could be the best way of utilising Ultra? for the present? Thanks stephen you could be a genius :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 3ldfilms Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Correct me if I'm wrong....but if someone wanted to buy your film...wouldn't it be easier these days to scan it and do a digital blow up? Can those scanners see the perfs? I know this process is more expensive, but it would still be relatively in expensive for someone who was going to distribute your film. Plus you get all the advantages of colour correcting it digitally. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Thinking about this even if they used a S16 gate you would still get an increase on Picture size over standard 16mm.. meaning less cropping...Yes? Perhaps this could be the best way of utilising Ultra? for the present? Thanks stephen you could be a genius :D I call my new format "16PlusTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 Can those scanners see the perfs? Hi, No, thats the problem! Scanners are built by people who look at the specifications of film, before the build their products! Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I call my new format "16PlusTM Shall I start a new thread about my new Format "16PlusTM" Or would a firing squad be ordered? :blink: Correct me if I'm wrong....but if someone wanted to buy your film...wouldn't it be easier these days to scan it and do a digital blow up? Can those scanners see the perfs? I know this process is more expensive, but it would still be relatively in expensive for someone who was going to distribute your film. Plus you get all the advantages of colour correcting it digitally. Ed Yes its a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 Thinking about this even if they used a S16 gate you would still get an increase on Picture size over standard 16mm.. meaning less cropping...Yes? Perhaps this could be the best way of utilising Ultra? for the present? Thanks stephen you could be a genius :D Hi, Even In reg 16 you could zoom back to get a bigger image. With a S16 gate you can get into the perf area on one side. If you want to file away some of the gate on 1 side you could, but why bother? There is 1 major benefit of 16mm you have forgotton about! You can project it as is with a soundtrack. No need to do any expensive optical or DI blow up. Just the thing for low budget filmakers! Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi, Even In reg 16 you could zoom back to get a bigger image. With a S16 gate you can get into the perf area on one side. If you want to file away some of the gate on 1 side you could, but why bother? There is 1 major benefit of 16mm you have forgotton about! You can project it as is with a soundtrack. No need to do any expensive optical or DI blow up. Just the thing for low budget filmakers! Stephen Why Bother having a ratio of 1:66:1 Same as Disney uses same as das boot and GREAT for cropping and Blowing up to 35mm as well as the obvious advantages with HDV yOU MEAN Why Bother with that? I dont understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 Why Bother having a ratio of 1:66:1 Same as Disney uses same as das boot and GREAT for cropping and Blowing up to 35mm as well as the obvious advantages with HDV yOU MEAN Why Bother with that? I dont understand? 35mm is 1.37:1 then you crop it to what you want, or shoot anamorphic. 1.66:1 can be obtained from reg 16! What is the problem? Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Hal Smith Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 At the risk of getting flamed by 3/4's of the participants to this thread, I have a question. Is there any practical (definition: cheap) way of letterboxing regular-16 in post for eventual optical prints? One could shoot slow stock, vignette in the viewfinder, use whatever amount of lighting that best minimizes grain, end up with an optical print in 1.66 or 1.85 aspect with a sound track on it, and have a print that projected in widescreen aspect on a standard projector - a zoom projector could be adjusted to fill the screen. It wouldn't be quite as nice as Super or Ultra 16 but as previously noted in this thread, one could spend one's money instead on goodies - really good lenses come to mind. I've got a later model, registration pin non-reflex Bolex H16 and a B & H 70KR and would much rather buy lenses, etc. than cobble the cameras at $700 a pop. :) Edmond, OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Will Montgomery Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 The colorist I work with in Dallas has no problem with Ultra-16. They can see the entire film and then zoom and crop according to what is needed. Super 16, Ultra-16, Super-Duper 16 & Crazy-Wacky 16 are all supported (ok, I made the last 2 up). She did say in general that Super 16 is slightly easier for her to work with but it really doesn't matter. Their machine is called a "Y-Front" which I believe is a modified Rank Cintel machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted January 4, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted January 4, 2006 At the risk of getting flamed by 3/4's of the participants to this thread, I have a question. Is there any practical (definition: cheap) way of letterboxing regular-16 in post for eventual optical prints? One could shoot slow stock, vignette in the viewfinder, use whatever amount of lighting that best minimizes grain, end up with an optical print in 1.66 or 1.85 aspect with a sound track on it, and have a print that projected in widescreen aspect on a standard projector - a zoom projector could be adjusted to fill the screen. It wouldn't be quite as nice as Super or Ultra 16 but as previously noted in this thread, one could spend one's money instead on goodies - really good lenses come to mind. I've got a later model, registration pin non-reflex Bolex H16 and a B & H 70KR and would much rather buy lenses, etc. than cobble the cameras at $700 a pop. :) Edmond, OK Hi, You have described the standard 16mm workflow for over 60 years. The labs add the 'Letterbox' when they make the print. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hall Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Their machine is called a "Y-Front" which I believe is a modified Rank Cintel machine. Are you kidding? That is the most unfortunately named piece of hardware, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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