A Strange Question

[Matt Wicker]

Hi Guys,

 

A strange question maybe, but how do you feel about you're work outliving you?

The fact that, long after you depart this mortal coil, people will view the legacy of you're work. Do you ever think about this, does this in any way effect what you try and achieve.

 

It is fascinating to think that maybe 50 or 100 years from now someone will still be viewing and discussing what you have contributed to.

 

My brother was lucky enough to have made a big contribution to the film Gladiator, and it seems strange to both of us that long after we are gone people will watch films like this, and part of him will live on in some way!

 

I hope you don't find this subject morbid, but I think maybe it is relavant to some of the reasons we are driven to want to produce material that is both creative and permanent.

 

Anyway, what do you think?

[WLphoto]

A strange question maybe, but how do you feel about you're work outliving you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I met a traveler from an antique land

Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone

Stand in the desert... Near them, on the sand,

Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,

And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,

Tell that its sculptor well those passions read

Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,

The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed;

And on the pedestal these words appear:

My name is Ozymandius, King of Kings,

Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare

The lone and level sands stretch far away.

 

- Percy Bysshe Shelley, "Ozymandius"

 

 

Fame is fleeting and should not be a motivating factor.

Fame and notoriety are primarily valuable as an asset for getting my next gig. "So what have you done lately?" "Well I worked on XYZ project." "Wow you must know what you're doing! Please work for us."

 

I think like a craftsman. I want to do the best quality work possible and I want people to appreciate it when they see it. And I want to be well compensated for the value I added to the project. Accountants and tweakers who want a hurried hack job annoy me and are to be charged extra as punishment. Yes I will take less money if I can be proud of the result. Recognition is nice but I can't eat it. Recognition after I'm dead? That's funny to me.

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, since I don't have any kids, I suppose it would be nice for something I did to outlast me for at least one generation, but that's about all anyone can hope for, to be remembered by the immediately following generation.

[Guest]

You're young David, you can still have kids. If the wife is not enthusiastic about the project you can adopt. I think you have a responsibility to pass on the "Mullen" cinematography dynasty :)

 

R,

[Mike Welle]

Hi Guys,

 

A strange question maybe, but how do you feel about you're work outliving you?

The fact that, long after you depart this mortal coil, people will view the legacy of you're work. Do you ever think about this, does this in any way effect what you try and achieve.

 

It is fascinating to think that maybe 50 or 100 years from now someone will still be viewing and discussing what you have contributed to.

 

My brother was lucky enough to have made a big contribution to the film Gladiator, and it seems strange to both of us that long after we are gone people will watch films like this, and part of him will live on in some way!

 

I hope you don't find this subject morbid, but I think maybe it is relavant to some of the reasons we are driven to want to produce material that is both creative and permanent.

 

Anyway, what do you think?

 

Please examine this exchange from Richard III:

 

York: Say uncle Gloucester if our brother come where shall we sojourn till our coronation?

 

Gloucester: Where it seems best unto your royal self.

If I may counsel you some day or two

Your highness shall repose you at the tower

Than where you please and shall be thought most fit.

 

York: I do not like the tower of any place my lord,

Did Julius Ceaser build that place?

 

Gloucester: He did my lord begin that place

Which since succeeding ages have re-edified.

 

York: Is it upon record or else recorded?

 

Buckingham: Upon record my gracious lord.

 

York: But say my lord it were not registered,

Methinks the truth should live from age to age as twere

Retailed to all posterity even to the general all ending day.

 

Gloucester: (aside) So wise, so young they say do never live long.

 

York: What say you uncle?

 

Gloucester: I say without characters fame lives long.

(aside) Thus like the formal vice iniquity I moralize two meanings

with one word.

 

York: That Julius Ceaser was a famous man with what his valour

Did enrich his wit, his wit set down to make his valour live

Death makes no conquest of this conquerer for now he lives

in fame though not in life...

[Phil Rhodes]

I am not legacy!

[Max Jacoby]

I knew you'd say that!

[Brian Wells]

"The paths of glory lead but to the grave."

 

- Thomas Gray (1716-71)

[Adam Frisch FSF]

The sad thruth is that most of the stuff we do will never be seen again. We leave no legacy. Music videos have a shelf life of 2 weeks, commercials maybe for a month and shorts are never seen to begin with:-). So unless you're doing features, your work is never going to be seen ever again.

 

But maybe that's just as good... :D

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

Well, there is the Internet Archive:

http://www.archive.org/

 

In general, I suppose there's some chance some of our work might end up online -- with or without or knowledge, consent or cooperation -- and be accessible far into the future.

 

Google Video and similar "archives" will absorb huge amounts of motion picture media. Whether anyone will ever look for or stumble upon something we worked on is another matter.

[Greg Gross]

I try to view at least one good film every week,last night it was "East of Eden". I don't

know who the camera operator was for this film but he certainly left a legacy for stu-

dents of film. The use of the camera,framing,coverage was just simply the best I've

ever seen. I don't know what stocks were used but film look to was most impressive.

I suppose they used 100 ASA or less. I was reminded of the legacy of James Dean,I

think it was three major films,yet he lives on today on celluloid,still has impressive fan

presence. Of course it was directed by Elia Kazan who certainly has left a film legacy

for us.

 

Greg Gross

[David Mullen ASC]

Being a 1955 film, it was probably shot on Eastmancolor 5248, which was 25 ASA, tungsten-balanced. It was also a CinemaScope production. I say "probably" 5248 only because it was labelled "Warnercolor", which was usually Eastmancolor developed by Warner, but around that time, some studios were also shooting Anscochrome color negative.

 

I noticed on the IMDB that it was shot by Ted McCord, with Conrad Hall operating (Hall always credited McCord as being one of his mentors.)

 

Anyway, 100 ASA color neg didn't hit the market until 1968 with Kodak 5254.

[Joe Gioielli]

Great topic, I've been thinking about if for awhile. It is tempting to go for the "I was, I was not, I do not care." posture. Frankly though, I'm not sure it's true.

 

Look at cable tv. I very rarly watch the "Westerns" channel. It's on 24 hours a day, showing movies that people shot 40 or 50 years ago. Not blockbusters either, most of these were Saturday afternoon "kid films". There is a channel that shows noting but old game shows. I really believe that one day, all those movies, both releaed and unreleased, will be running on telivision (or what ever replaces it) 24 hours a day.

 

I also believe that home movies, small docs, and hobby films (and video - makes no difference to me) will find viewers, if they survive. I have a collection of 8mm films shot but some man in Texas. About ten years worth of kid's birthdays and vacations. All films contain "intended and unintended" content. Often, the intended content of a home movie is only of personal value. I have one called "Emily and Charcoal." It's just a little girl (now in her 40's) palying with a little black dog (presumed deceased) in her living room. OK, cute enough. But I really go for the unintended content. I get to see the kind of furniture he had. He had a taste for modern design. He also liked hign tech. Great tv and stereo set up. The man liked his toys. You can even learn by the way he shot. His regular 8 camera had a zoom lens. He was not a man to skip on his cameras, either. His children survived to young adult hood. They appeared to be in good health and were well provided for during there youth.

 

We live in a unique time in human history. The 20th centuary was the most well documented in history. Human civilization is a light that flickers. Currently we are shining brightly. We have no idea what the future holds. Between climate change, war, or disease we may be heading toward a period of darkness. Just as we cherish the clay tablets of cultures long past,the past, perhaps our films a video tapes will provide the clues to our culture fot the future.

 

"And when they found our shadows, grouped round the tv sets, they tracked down every lead and repeated every test. They checked out all the data on their lists, and then, the alien anthropologists admitted they were still perplexed. But on eliminating every other reason for our sad demise, they logged the only explination left, this species has amused itself to death." Roger Waters

 

Joe

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Great quote. :)

[Matt Wicker]

Wow!

 

Some great replies there people, I wasn't sure if this topic held any merit but it has drawn a great range of opinions, and an even greater range of quotes.

 

I especially liked the view that documenting the ordinary had value, when you think of it, stuff thrown out 50 years ago now adorns our antique shops and collecters fairs. It is natural to want to know where we have come from, in order to help figure out where we can go to.

 

An Experiment

 

Here is a photo I picked up at a jumble sale (along with some other very interesting movie Pix) does it interest anyone enough to to find out and tell me about it, as I know nothing about it's content.

 

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Being a 1955 film, it was probably shot on Eastmancolor 5248, which was 25 ASA, tungsten-balanced. It was also a CinemaScope production. I say "probably" 5248 only because it was labelled "Warnercolor", which was usually Eastmancolor developed by Warner, but around that time, some studios were also shooting Anscochrome color negative.

 

I noticed on the IMDB that it was shot by Ted McCord, with Conrad Hall operating (Hall always credited McCord as being one of his mentors.)

 

Anyway, 100 ASA color neg didn't hit the market until 1968 with Kodak 5254.

 

---WarnerColor was all Eastmancolor.

Metrocolor seems to be the only major using Anscocolor, processing it themselves.

Lippert was the second biggest user of Anscocolor. No idea where their lab work was done.

 

'Lust for Life', 1955, was the last movie shot on anscocolor. By then MGM lab had switched over to Eastmancolor. Minelli mentions in a memoir that MGM had to hunt through warehouses across the country for every last foot of Anscocolor negative. The processing was done at a lab in Texas.

 

Speaking of Warnercolor, 'Helen of Troy' has some good large scale night scenes of the sack of Troy and of galleies at sea. Probably at EI16 since arcs were most probably used.

 

---LV

[Greg Gross]

Gentlemen,

 

When you told me that Conrad Hall was operating the camera on East of Eden,

you really made my day. Not just that alone but that he was operating the cam-

era for Ted McCord. My god this film alone is a virtual film school if you pay att-

ention to each scene. I'm not a film school graduate so I naturally thought that

it was shot at 50,80,100 ASA. My god its no wonder Mr. Hall learned to light so

well. The framing in this film(close-ups) where you have two characters in dia-

logue was just awesome. Did I see some of this framing in "Road to Perdition"?

I believe that Mr. Hall has just taught me in a 1955 film,how to use a camera.

 

Greg Gross