Motion Picture Theft

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Something I thought I might mention on the subject of 'older' poeople knowing stealing is stealing however much the owner earns:

 

I was fired from my first job because a man of atleast 50 came in and stole a camera. It was my fault because I was cleaning the cabinets at the time and I didn't lock them.

 

Before that another man came in and gave me a dodgy cheque. Which I got a warning about, which was unbelievable because I even showed one the partners it and he said it was ok.

 

Since I got my new job, two employees have been fired, for stealing. Both of them were over 40.

 

Another employee, again over 40, has been issued a warning because he was taking business for himself in the shop. Not directly stealing, but still taking the companies business, right under their nose.

 

My uncle owns a bakery, he caught a man with his hands over the counter trying to open the till. I've seen the CCTV and he didn't look young.

 

Just thought I'd mention that before everyone starts stereotyping us, as usual.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Jonathan Spear]

"""Us "older folks" were taught that STEALING IS STEALING, PERIOD, and it doesn't make any difference how you "feel" about who you're stealing it from."""

 

I disagree. Too simplistic. "Kids" download free music and movies just as frequently as "adults" (who should be extra ashamed of themselves having supposedly grown up during a pre-socially conscious era and knowing better? :huh: ).

 

"""It's funny I was thinking the same thing myself. I was going to say, It's EASY to tell who is under 30 and who is over 30."""

 

If it's so EASY, then how come I'm 25?

 

Age has nothing to do with it. This is about where you as an individual human being draw the line between right and wrong. I personally think stealing is stealing when it comes to film and music because of things like day-date releases, budget cuts, sound and picture quality, how it hurts the industry and maybe one day, my future career.

 

Regardless of how rich George Lucas is, who am I to steal from him?! I'm allowed to be angry at him (not personally of course) for chosing digital over film or for having creating Jar Jar Binks, but that's where I draw the line.

 

There's no logical or sane reason to steal a movie when you can go see it on an enormous screen for 20$. If 20$ is too steep, then pick up a book or a cheap magazine and stop whining. I'm not rich (FAR FROM IT), but I'll be going to the movies even after tickets break the $100.00 mark.

 

Worth every penny.

[Matt Pacini]

"... Age has nothing to do with it. This is about where you as an individual human being draw the line between right and wrong...."

 

Oh brother.

I'm not insinuating that there's some magical gene that "kicks in" when you hit 35 or whatever. It's not an arbitrary thing, age VERY PROFOUNDLY has something to do with it, because of what society you were raised in. The lines you draw between right and wrong are largely dictated by what the culture things is OK or not at any given time:

Because the culture changes over time, with society emphasizing different things as being important, that were not considered important in the past. This ends up in the education system, what people talk about, TV shows, etc., which influences peoples behavior.

 

There are pros & cons of this:

For instance, up until the 1960's or so, it was considered acceptable to smack your woman around if she was misbehaving. Ever heard that 50's song "he hit me, and it felt like a kiss"? Now, thankfully, the culture has shifted so most everyone recognizes this is not OK. (Of course, it's OK for a woman to hit a man, but that's for another conversation...)

It used to be perfectly acceptable to just toss trash out the car window, for instance. These are examples of how modern culture has gotten smarter, but there are (IMO) even more negatives, as has been discussed in this post.

 

MP

[Tom Bays]

Like playing golf...you learn a lot about a persons make up by what they take or don't take.

[Daniel Sheehy]

Yes, downloading bootleg movies off the web is wrong.

Yes, it is stealing.

 

No, no matter what the industry does about it, they aren't going to be able to stop it.

So, I reckon, that the movie industry should take a page out of the music folks book,

and start offering cheap, good quality downloads for those who want them, at a reasonable rate.

 

True, no download is ever going to do justice to the original work of art, but the numbers of people

downloading movies off the internet seems to indicate that there is a whole group of people out there

who don't really care about the quality of their movies.

 

Infact, it may even give rise to a new stream of movies, aimed primarily at internet release...

like that guy in South Africa who shot his picture on cell phone cameras!

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

I hate to say it but one thing a lot of adults don't realise is that, it's not the kids today, but it's the adults.

 

At the end of the day, who is it that runs the countries and everything in them. It's not the kids.

 

Kids tend to follow an example. The example comes from their elders. Kids don't misbehave and think the way they do out of free will. They have been taught to think that way.

 

Usually by the total idiots who want everything to be politically correct and down the line.

 

Here's a real life example:

 

During the 1970's, parents had the authority to hit their children when they misbehaved. My Dad in particular was beaten when he misbehaved, and he tells me it did him the world of good.

 

NOW in 2006:

 

When a child misbehaves, the parents have NO authority whatsoever. If they are caught hitting their children, this includes a slap on the hand, the children could be taken away by 'social workers'.

 

I'm getting a little personal here, but I won't go into details, my sister has made life hell for my parents, she won't do as she's told, she seems to think she is 18 when she is really 15. And my parents can't do a thing about it, if anyone hit her she'd just tell the social workers what's happening and she'd be taken away. Even when we try to tell her in a nice way, try to encourage her to behave in an ethical manner, she just does not listen, or she just classes it as bullying.

 

And all this time my parents are under going huge amounts of stress, and my sister is too blind, ignorant and selfish to see that.

 

THAT'S what happens when kids open free minds are subjected to the idiocy of some of the people today.

 

But these total morons, who don't actually have kids, think they know what's right because they have a degree, get to set the rules. My parents have been parenting for 19 years, and along comes some idiot social worker that tries telling my parents what is right and what is wrong.

 

My sister was a half normal person before the social workers got involved. Now because of the crap they've put into her head, my parents' lives have been shortened.

 

England is just turning into slop.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Brad Grimmett]

I believe in situational ethics

What you're really saying is that you PRACTICE situational ethics. Believing in them means nothing, since everyone knows they exist. Practicing them is a whole other ball of wax. It means that you adjust your ethical standards depending on what you need, or want, to convince yourself is right in a certain situation. There is nothing ethical about situational ethics. As a matter of fact practicing situational ethics is patently unethical. If you somehow can't understand that then you need to either read an ethics book or take a course or do something....because this is really very simple, and you don't seem to get it, nor do you seem to want to understand.

[Tom Bays]

We are all in control of our own actions...your friends doing it doesn't make it right. It might make you feel better about doing it, but it doesn't make it right.

 

A tree is falling down all by itself somewhere.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

We are all in control of our own actions...

 

It's no so much being in control of your actions, it's having your actions conditioned by the right people.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

I've always been green about the way kids have been stereotyped, but realistically, it's dangerous for young people to think with their own mind. I'll admit that, a lot of kids are not ready for it.

 

 

Precisely why so many kids today are suicidal.

 

It reminds me of 'Dead Poets Society'. The main character is taught to think with his own mind, from a surface view, thinking with your own mind is a good thing. But look what happens at the end...

Edited April 24, 2006 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Filip Plesha]

in control of our own actions

 

does that mean we should stop raising our kids and let them be in control of their own actions?

[Brad Grimmett]

Has anyone here ever driven 60 mph in a 55 mph zone?

 

If so you are breaking the law. Shame on you. And not only are you breaking the law, but you are endangering the lives of innocent people. Women and children. And some of those women may even be pregnant. Hell, some of those children may even be pregnant...kids these days and their raging hormones.

 

But anyway, yeah, 60 in a 55...shame on you. Dont you realize that's stealing. Because while the rest of us are driving the speed limit, you are getting to your destination faster, thereby saving yourself time....stolen time. You stole that time because you drove beyond the speed limit.

 

Shame on you.

Enough with the theatrics. This is about the worst analogy possible. Stealing time.....give me a break. A blind man can see the difference between theft and speeding. Does this analogy represent how desperate you are to prove that "everyone steals"?

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Yeh, sorry Keneu, but that is pretty bad... lol

 

does that mean we should stop raising our kids and let them be in control of their own actions?

 

That is how most of England think now. That's how pathetic things have gotten.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Filip Plesha]

That is how most of England think now. That's how pathetic things have gotten.

 

People aren't aware that however individualistic they maybe are feeling, they are what they are and

do what they do because someone else "toled" them to, it maybe nature, or parents, or friends, or even enemies, but persons don't fall out of the sky, they are built by something or someone.

 

If you wan't a society with moral people, you have to teach them morality with conditioning, because

otherwise they won't even hear about that word. Morality does not come in your drinking water,

people made it and shaped it to make the life in community easier, so without passing it to new generations, all you get is a bunch of people following their feelings

 

And as much as it may be romantinc and movie-like to think that morality comes from listening to your heart, that is just not true. Human heart is a dangerous thing. Hitler listened to his heart. His heart was full of hate, that is a real feeling. And great evil has become from that.

Feelings can sometimes emulate morality, because sometimes they are oriented toward the good of your friends (which is natural), but other times those same feelings can make you kill, steal, rape, like wild chimps.

So morality is a cognitive construct, while feelings are a pretty unstable thing, and can not be relied upon to build society.

Another, "cheaper" compromise is building society of fear. It's easier to do, but is also less efficient.

But a company selling candy bars will rather sell the idea of being anything you want to be while eating their stuff, and getting profits, and later letting the SWAT dogs deal with the consequences than getting less profit this year. Of course this is a parabole, I'm not implying that food companies and directly responsible for the changes in mentality, that happens on a much larger and longer scale.

 

But hey, as long as wild man eating homo sapiens monsters don't kill all the postmans, and I still am able to get my monthly supply of DVD's from amazon, see if I care if they all kill each other. That and if they don't touch people from Kodak. Kodak makes my life worth living. (John, you can quote me on that if someone there needs material for advertising)

 

But maybe I'm a bit cynical, time will tell

Edited April 24, 2006 by Filip Plesha

[Tom Bays]

does that mean we should stop raising our kids and let them be in control of their own actions?

 

I didn't realize we had that many kids on this forum. You do the best you can to make sure they do the right thing. You don't go...Hey is that Sith you downloaded...AWESOME!

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

People aren't aware that however individualistic they maybe are feeling, they are what they are and

do what they do because someone else "toled" them to, it maybe nature, or parents, or friends, or even enemies, but persons don't fall out of the sky, they are built by something or someone.

 

If you wan't a society with moral people, you have to teach them morality with conditioning, because

otherwise they won't even hear about that word. Morality does not come in your drinking water,

people made it and shaped it to make the life in community easier, so without passing it to new generations, all you get is a bunch of people following their feelings

 

And as much as it may be romantinc and movie-like to think that morality comes from listening to your heart, that is just not true. Human heart is a dangerous thing. Hitler listened to his heart. His heart was full of hate, that is a real feeling. And great evil has become from that.

Feelings can sometimes emulate morality, because sometimes they are oriented toward the good of your friends (which is natural), but other times those same feelings can make you kill, steal, rape, like wild chimps.

So morality is a cognitive construct, while feelings are a pretty unstable thing, and can not be relied upon to build society.

Another, "cheaper" compromise is building society of fear. It's easier to do, but is also less efficient.

But a company selling candy bars will rather sell the idea of being anything you want to be while eating their stuff, and getting profits, and later letting the SWAT dogs deal with the consequences than getting less profit this year. Of course this is a parabole, I'm not implying that food companies and directly responsible for the changes in mentality, that happens on a much larger and longer scale.

 

But hey, as long as wild man eating homo sapiens monsters don't kill all the postmans, and I still am able to get my monthly supply of DVD's from amazon, see if I care if they all kill each other. That and if they don't touch people from Kodak. Kodak makes my life worth living. (John, you can quote me on that if someone there needs material for advertising)

 

But maybe I'm a bit cynical, time will tell

Good post.

 

The assumption made by a lot of people is that if you don't 100% believe in free thinking for young people, you're a conforming, heartless, cynical ba**ard. Which we know isn't true, we're just not thick enough to start telling children they can do whatever the hell they want, and if they're bad, we'll forgive them, every time.

 

I mean I don't want the world to become some kind of a dictatorship, but on the other hand, I think a bit of dictatorship on the social level of things does people the world of good.

 

During the 1970's the whole thing was that if you misbehaved, you would get the belt or something. That gave kids a little something to think about before throwing an egg at a random persons car. What do they have to worry about now? If parents pressure them too much, all they have to do is ring up social services, tell them that they are being bullied at home, and they will get moved elsewhere. Leaving the parents emotionally crippled, practically destroying the family. (It's not just the fact that the parents have lost a child, but also that fact that they start to actually believe that they are bad parents, and that's what hits them the hardest)

 

Kids seem to think they're Eminem and living in 8 Mile. Hence why they all think they've had it hard in life, why they think they are adults. Eminem, hardly much of a role model, kids think it's the norm to wonder the streets with guns, knives and drugs. It's all a big fashion, but kids take it in as reality. Just shows you how unstable the average young persons mind is. And like you mentioned, Filip, feelings are dangerous when they completely control the person's state of mind. And if you get all these people protecting children from being taught what is right and what is wrong, they're bound to follow their feelings and go their own way, and in 95% of all cases, the wrong way. (Just to make it clear, when I say young people I mean from the age of 10 to 20, I'm not saying people over 20 aren't young, just specifying a certain age group)

 

Even I'm green and rebel against most things the adult world throws at me. But I don't go overboard and get stupid about things.

 

 

You don't go...Hey is that Sith you downloaded...AWESOME!

Oh come on we're not all that bad.. lol

Edited April 24, 2006 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Alessandro Machi]

What you're really saying is that you PRACTICE situational ethics. Believing in them means nothing, since everyone knows they exist. Practicing them is a whole other ball of wax. It means that you adjust your ethical standards depending on what you need, or want, to convince yourself is right in a certain situation. There is nothing ethical about situational ethics. As a matter of fact practicing situational ethics is patently unethical. If you somehow can't understand that then you need to either read an ethics book or take a course or do something....because this is really very simple, and you don't seem to get it, nor do you seem to want to understand.

 

I Never said I practice situational ethics in the perverse way you imply.

 

However, let me introduce you to those who don't believe in situational ethics just like you, people who instead rely on dogma, conviction, superiority complexes and the belief that they have the passion to do that which is right and just. People just like you who know that black is black, white is white, and there are no shades of gray.

 

Embrace them, chase them, by all means, go be with them....................................

 

 

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." - Ann Coulter

 

 

?It?s going to be a spiritual battle. There will be Satanic forces...We are not going to be coming up just against human beings, to beat them in elections. We?re going to be coming up against spiritual warfare.? - Pat Robertson.

 

 

?We are approaching a time when Christians, especially, may have to declare the social contract between Enlightenment rationalists and Biblical believers - which formed the basis of the constitution written at our nation?s founding - null and void.? - Cal Thomas

 

 

?I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don?t want equal time. We don?t want pluralism.? - Randall Terry

 

 

?We are to make Bible-obeying disciples of anybody that gets in our way.? - Jay Grimstead

 

 

?Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody?s pseudo-right to worship an idol.? - Rev. Joseph Morecraft

 

 

?Unique among the nations, American recognized the source of our character as being godly and eternal, not being civic and temporal. And because we have understood that our source is eternal, America has been different. We have no king but Jesus.? - John Ashcroft

 

 

?If you don?t want a Christian nation, then go to one of the many nations that are heathen already than perverting ours...You?re welcome to come, but leave your religions, your bibles, all your other things back where you come from.? - Rev. Jeff Fugate

 

 

?This is God?s world, not Satan?s. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians.? - Gary North

 

 

?Hey-get with the program! Christians are individuals! Non-Christians are a big blurry mess!!! - -Melinda Shore

 

 

?When the Christian majority take over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil.? - Gary Potter

 

 

?We?re fighting against humanism, we?re fighting against liberalism...we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today...our battle is with Satan himself.? - Jerry Falwell

 

 

?If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth.? - Jerry Falwell

 

 

?The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church?s public marks of the covenant - baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel.? - Gary North

 

 

?Most politically active Christians don?t want equal time with homosexuals, abortionists, animal worshiping pagans, witches, radical feminists and pornographers. We want them silenced and mercifully disciplined according to the word of God.? - -Jay Rodgers

 

?No, I don?t know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.? - George Bush Sr.

 

 

?Allah is a different god. It?s not one big umbrella, and we shouldn?t just get along.? - Janet Folger

 

 

?We are engaged in a social, political, and cultural war. There?s a lot of talk in America about pluralism. But the bottom line is somebody?s values will prevail. And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe.? - Gary Bauer

 

 

?Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free.? - Pat Buchanan

 

 

?Those who practice homosexuality should swiftly be put to death by the government. God emphatically condemns the practice of exchanging proper gender characteristics among men and women. God justly calls for the death-penalty for anyone who practices homosexuality.? - Citizens for the Ten Commandments

 

 

?AIDS is not just God?s punishment for homosexuals; it is God?s punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.? - Jerry Falwell

 

 

?A religion that doesn?t discriminate wouldn?t exist, because it wouldn?t stand for anything.? - Janet Parshall

 

 

?AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save on of Pharaoh?s chariottiers.? - Jerry Falwell

 

 

?The law that requires the death penalty for homosexual acts effectually drives the perversion of homosexuality back into the closet.? - Gary DeMar

 

 

?The strategy against the American radical left should be the same as General Douglas MacArthur employed against the Japanese in the Pacific...bypass their strongholds, surround them, isolate them, bombard them, then blast the individuals out of their power bunkers with hand-to-hand combat. The battle for Iwo Jima was not pleasant, but our troops won it. The battle to regain the soul of America won?t be pleasant either, but we will win it.? - Pat Robertson

 

--------------------------------------

 

These people, just like you, condemn situational ethics while demanding that everyone do what is obviously right and good. They show no curiosity or respect towards others who are different from themselves.

 

Have you ever grasped the irony that you make a living in a medium that creates a product completely derived from the use of situational ethics.

[K Borowski]

I Never said I practice situational ethics in the perverse way you imply.

 

However, let me introduce you to those who don't believe in situational ethics just like you, people who instead rely on dogma, conviction, superiority complexes and the belief that they have the passion to do that which is right and just. People just like you who know that black is black, white is white, and there are no shades of gray.

 

Embrace them, chase them, by all means, go be with them....................................

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." - Ann Coulter

?It?s going to be a spiritual battle. There will be Satanic forces...We are not going to be coming up just against human beings, to beat them in elections. We?re going to be coming up against spiritual warfare.? - Pat Robertson.

?We are approaching a time when Christians, especially, may have to declare the social contract between Enlightenment rationalists and Biblical believers - which formed the basis of the constitution written at our nation?s founding - null and void.? - Cal Thomas

?I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don?t want equal time. We don?t want pluralism.? - Randall Terry

?We are to make Bible-obeying disciples of anybody that gets in our way.? - Jay Grimstead

?Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody?s pseudo-right to worship an idol.? - Rev. Joseph Morecraft

?Unique among the nations, American recognized the source of our character as being godly and eternal, not being civic and temporal. And because we have understood that our source is eternal, America has been different. We have no king but Jesus.? - John Ashcroft

?If you don?t want a Christian nation, then go to one of the many nations that are heathen already than perverting ours...You?re welcome to come, but leave your religions, your bibles, all your other things back where you come from.? - Rev. Jeff Fugate

?This is God?s world, not Satan?s. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians.? - Gary North

?Hey-get with the program! Christians are individuals! Non-Christians are a big blurry mess!!! - -Melinda Shore

?When the Christian majority take over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil.? - Gary Potter

?We?re fighting against humanism, we?re fighting against liberalism...we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today...our battle is with Satan himself.? - Jerry Falwell

?If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth.? - Jerry Falwell

?The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church?s public marks of the covenant - baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel.? - Gary North

?Most politically active Christians don?t want equal time with homosexuals, abortionists, animal worshiping pagans, witches, radical feminists and pornographers. We want them silenced and mercifully disciplined according to the word of God.? - -Jay Rodgers

 

?No, I don?t know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.? - George Bush Sr.

?Allah is a different god. It?s not one big umbrella, and we shouldn?t just get along.? - Janet Folger

?We are engaged in a social, political, and cultural war. There?s a lot of talk in America about pluralism. But the bottom line is somebody?s values will prevail. And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe.? - Gary Bauer

?Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free.? - Pat Buchanan

?Those who practice homosexuality should swiftly be put to death by the government. God emphatically condemns the practice of exchanging proper gender characteristics among men and women. God justly calls for the death-penalty for anyone who practices homosexuality.? - Citizens for the Ten Commandments

?AIDS is not just God?s punishment for homosexuals; it is God?s punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.? - Jerry Falwell

?A religion that doesn?t discriminate wouldn?t exist, because it wouldn?t stand for anything.? - Janet Parshall

?AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save on of Pharaoh?s chariottiers.? - Jerry Falwell

?The law that requires the death penalty for homosexual acts effectually drives the perversion of homosexuality back into the closet.? - Gary DeMar

?The strategy against the American radical left should be the same as General Douglas MacArthur employed against the Japanese in the Pacific...bypass their strongholds, surround them, isolate them, bombard them, then blast the individuals out of their power bunkers with hand-to-hand combat. The battle for Iwo Jima was not pleasant, but our troops won it. The battle to regain the soul of America won?t be pleasant either, but we will win it.? - Pat Robertson

 

--------------------------------------

 

These people, just like you, condemn situational ethics while demanding that everyone do what is obviously right and good. They show no curiosity or respect towards others who are different from themselves.

 

Have you ever grasped the irony that you make a living in a medium that creates a product completely derived from the use of situational ethics.

 

I'm sorry, but what does any of this poop have to do with copyright infringement? This sounds like the very sort of self-important behavior you bemoan in your speach, err entry.

 

There really is not gray area in the matter. Except for personal use, you cannot copy anything that you don't already own a licensed copy of. Even with this copy, you aren't allowed to have the original and the copy playing at the same time, or are allowed to make copies to give to others.

 

Regards.

 

~Karl Borowski

[Rik Andino]

How the hell did this become a discussion on morality?

I just felt like I walked into the The McLaughlin Group or Politically Incorrect.

An argument about the internet & copyright infringement...

Suddenly mutates into an argument on how to raise kids... :huh:

 

Filmmakers should be the last folks arguing morality...

Most of the filmmakers I know swear, lie, drink excessively--some even participate in drug use...

They even steal things--(many of us have taken items from sets), They're lewd, sexist, discrimanatory, etc...

But they don't copy movies...so somehow when the subject of movie piracy comes up...

Some folks feel more pious then others.

 

It's not that movie piracy is or isn't wrong--it is wrong just like speeding or grand theft auto or genocide...

It's that some folks have started pointed the poius finger at everyone...

And we've began accusing people of being worthless sinners when we're not so good ourselves.

 

And not one of you have come up with...

1) definitive reasons for the acceptance of piracy among the public

2) sensible solutions to contol piracy

 

We can all accuse each other of moral bankruptcy

But none of us can help figure out a way to solve the problem.

 

This thread is frankly becoming pathetic

And I somewhat feel guilty still participating in it.

 

 

And it's not a youth or adult problem--it's an everyone problem

Self-righteousness is not a cure for the ill of society even movie piracy.

[Alessandro Machi]

How the hell did this become a discussion on morality?

I just felt like I walked into the The McLaughlin Group or Politically Incorrect.

An argument about the internet & copyright infringement...

Suddenly mutates into an argument on how to raise kids... :huh:

 

Filmmakers should be the last folks arguing morality...

Most of the filmmakers I know swear, lie, drink excessively--some even participate in drug use...

They even steal things--(many of us have taken items from sets), They're lewd, sexist, discrimanatory, etc...

But they don't copy movies...so somehow when the subject of movie piracy comes up...

Some folks feel more pious then others.

 

It's not that movie piracy is or isn't wrong--it is wrong just like speeding or grand theft auto or genocide...

It's that some folks have started pointed the poius finger at everyone...

And we've began accusing people of being worthless sinners when we're not so good ourselves.

 

And not one of you have come up with...

1) definitive reasons for the acceptance of piracy among the public

2) sensible solutions to contol piracy

 

We can all accuse each other of moral bankruptcy

But none of us can help figure out a way to solve the problem.

 

This thread is frankly becoming pathetic

And I somewhat feel guilty still participating in it.

And it's not a youth or adult problem--it's an everyone problem

Self-righteousness is not a cure for the ill of society even movie piracy.

 

 

I think distinguishing that there is a huge difference between piracy before a movie has been released or has made back a hefty profit versus someone pirating a movie that is already made a large profit and has been out for a while has some relevance as a focus point, and it's a point I made earlier. I question your claim that no one has made any sensible points related to this topic.

 

I'm sorry, but what does any of this poop have to do with copyright infringement? This sounds like the very sort of self-important behavior you bemoan in your speach, err entry.

 

There really is no gray area in the matter. Except for personal use, you cannot copy anything that you don't already own a licensed copy of. Even with this copy, you aren't allowed to have the original and the copy playing at the same time, or are allowed to make copies to give to others.

 

Regards.

 

~Karl Borowski

 

You CANNOT put an artists copyrighted music over any of your own video productions, it's illegal unless you have written permission from the owner of the copyrighted music.

 

That's why I introduced the concept of situational ethics. If one doesn't abuse or profit from personal use of of a mainstream artists copyrighted music, no one is really going to care if an artist's music is dubbed over a wedding video as long as the music was at the very least legitimately purchased either via the internet or from an actual store. The hardliners won't acknowledge that because it weakens their case that states "stealing is stealing" and "it's always stealing and it's always blatantly obvious".

 

Every video demo reel ever made is basically illegal because no copyright clearances were gathered. Yet the studios view these illegally created demo reels to assist in the hiring of talent for their next film project. Nobody would ever sue the studios for viewing illegally edited copyrighted demo reels because the studios use the demo reels to give people jobs. That is an example of situational ethics winning out over a hard and fast or black and white interpretation of a law.

 

In my opinion it's pointless trying to simplify this issue down to a one sentence conclusion.

[Jonathan Spear]

(blah blah blah, cut and paste)...

 

"""...These people, just like you, condemn situational ethics while demanding that everyone do what is obviously right and good. They show no curiosity or respect towards others who are different from themselves."""

 

:unsure:

 

Can I buy some pot off you?

[Jonathan Spear]

How the hell did this become a discussion on morality?

I just felt like I walked into the The McLaughlin Group or Politically Incorrect.

An argument about the internet & copyright infringement...

Suddenly mutates into an argument on how to raise kids... :huh:

 

Filmmakers should be the last folks arguing morality...

Most of the filmmakers I know swear, lie, drink excessively--some even participate in drug use...

They even steal things--(many of us have taken items from sets), They're lewd, sexist, discrimanatory, etc...

But they don't copy movies...so somehow when the subject of movie piracy comes up...

Some folks feel more pious then others.

 

It's not that movie piracy is or isn't wrong--it is wrong just like speeding or grand theft auto or genocide...

It's that some folks have started pointed the poius finger at everyone...

And we've began accusing people of being worthless sinners when we're not so good ourselves.

 

And not one of you have come up with...

1) definitive reasons for the acceptance of piracy among the public

2) sensible solutions to contol piracy

 

We can all accuse each other of moral bankruptcy

But none of us can help figure out a way to solve the problem.

 

This thread is frankly becoming pathetic

And I somewhat feel guilty still participating in it.

And it's not a youth or adult problem--it's an everyone problem

Self-righteousness is not a cure for the ill of society even movie piracy.

 

1. This is about morality.

 

2. Why is this thread (like so many other threads <_< ) 'pathetic'? And if you really do feel guilty, why continue participating? What's wrong with having a heated debate? This thread deals with an enormous issue and there will obviously be many varied opinions -- what's wrong with having your own?

 

This isn't about being right then "sealing the deal" by making everyone feel stupid for daring to share their views.

 

3. A sensible way to control piracy? Make it clear to the public that besides being morally wrong, it's as illegal as shoplifting from your local Blockbuster, Tower Records or Hollywood Video. There's no 'gray area' for shoplifters. If you get caught, you pay the price.

 

And situational ethics, like religion, can have an extremely negative influence when it's poorly crafted into an excuse for getting away with murder by people who are moraly weak or in denial.

 

Wikipedia: "Situational ethics (also known as Situationism) refers to a particular view of ethics that states: the morality of an act is a function of the state of the system at the time it is performed"

 

Hitler and his goons comforted many of the men working at their camps who couldn't morally stomach the notion of killing innocent people by using the same rhetoric.

 

Positive morality is what advances and sustains human nature. When everyone knows that murder is murder, rape is rape and theft is theft, the world may be a better place to live in.

 

(That's my opinion)

[Alessandro Machi]

So is it legal or not that movie studios use illegally created (actor, director, musician, wardrobe etc..) demo reels to hire their talent?

[Brad Grimmett]

I Never said I practice situational ethics in the perverse way you imply.

 

You've implied that you do over and over again. You've beat everyone over the head saying it. If it's perverse it's not because I made it that way.

 

However, let me introduce you to those who don't believe in situational ethics just like you, people who instead rely on dogma, conviction, superiority complexes and the belief that they have the passion to do that which is right and just. People just like you who know that black is black, white is white, and there are no shades of gray.

 

I'm not going to re-quote those ridiculous quotes. It was a waste of space the first time.

I never said there were no shades of gray. I made it perfectly clear that I was talking about people who steal movies and music. You've come up with every conceivable "situation" that you could, none of which have anything to do with what we're talking about, to try to prove that stealing is OK in some instances. And posting all of those quotes and trying to put me in the same catagory with those people is typical of someone who is trying to avoid the real issue. It's funny that you wasted so much time finding irrelevant quotes, only to prove that you're skirting the issue.

 

These people, just like you, condemn situational ethics while demanding that everyone do what is obviously right and good. They show no curiosity or respect towards others who are different from themselves.

 

I never demanded that anyone do anything. Where are you getting this stuff?

So because I show no respect for thieves suddenly I show no respect towards anyone who's different from me? You've gone off the deep end. But I guess ignorance is bliss....

 

Have you ever grasped the irony that you make a living in a medium that creates a product completely derived from the use of situational ethics.

 

How are movies and television shows "completely derived from the use of situational ethics"? Please explain what you mean, because the way you've stated it it makes absolutely no sense. Please answer this question, because I'm dying to hear what "situation" or "scenario" you come up with, in an attempt to prove your point, that has nothing to do with anything we're talking about.

So to answer your question...No, I find no irony in how I make a living.

 

 

I think distinguishing that there is a huge difference between piracy before a movie has been released or has made back a hefty profit versus someone pirating a movie that is already made a large profit and has been out for a while has some relevance as a focus point, and it's a point I made earlier.

 

No, there isn't a difference. You're still stealing it. How do you not understand this? It's mind boggling.

Does your above quote mean that you won't steal a movie that never makes a profit? Because that would mean that you could only steal a handful of films, since most never show a profit. For example, according to the studios who made it, Titanic hasn't made a profit yet. Whether that's creative accounting or not, it is true that most films don't make a profit.

 

If one doesn't abuse or profit from personal use of of a mainstream artists copyrighted music, no one is really going to care if an artist's music is dubbed over a wedding video as long as the music was at the very least legitimately purchased either via the internet or from an actual store. The hardliners won't acknowledge that because it weakens their case that states "stealing is stealing" and "it's always stealing and it's always blatantly obvious".

 

Sure, if you're not using it for profit they probably won't care, as is the case with demo reels. But in the same sentence you talk about using the music in a wedding video, which is very obviously for profit if it was made by someone who makes wedding videos for a living. How can you so consistently contradict yourself and not realize it?

[Brad Grimmett]

So is it legal or not that movie studios use illegally created (actor, director, musician, wardrobe etc..) demo reels to hire their talent?

I'll answer the question you asked first, then I'll answer the question I think you meant to ask.

The first answer is: No, it's not illegal. Viewing something that may have been illegally created is not against the law. But who's to say all demo reels are illegal anyway? I know for a fact that many of them don't use copyrighted music, or use music with permission.

Here's the question I think you meant to ask: 'Is it illegal for someone to make a demo reel?'

No, it's not illegal. Now, whether or not using copyrighted music in a demo reel is illegal or not....I don't know. There may be a loophole that says you can use it if you're not attempting to make a profit....but I don't know, I'm not a copyright attorney. If you really want to know you should call a lawyer.

Is this question your way of trying to demonize the studios and compare them to people who steal movies off the internet? If so, you should re-think that approach, because it's not working.