Freedom of the Press vrs. Al Jazeera

[Guest]

Capt. Video:

 

Please break your delusional rants into paragraphs.

 

Thanks

R,

 

PS: The guy was asking how Bush won RE-ELECTION. Bush won the FIRST time by one of the slimest margins in US history. That doesn't explain the much larger margin he won by in 2004.

[James Steven Beverly]

Delusional rants have to be set out in one large block otherwise they loose their exessive quailty :D Bush was RE-ELECTED by one of the slimest margines in US history of any sitting presedent during wartime. He DID NOT have political capital as he stated during his speech although he ACTED as though he did, which was truely a delusional rant.

[Tom Bays]

Interesting article in today's Washington Post about the troubles of Al Jazeera television crews shooting in the United States, even when the crews are American citizens. Insurance companies won't cover them, big accounting firms refuse their business. Locals find out they work for Al Jazeera and call the police.

 

Is supporting Terrorist TV inimical to America's interests? Or is freedom of the press guaranteed only for Republican Party donors?

 

 

I guess you don't count Fox's problems being seen in Canada as a freedom of the press issue? I think it is BDS syndrome.

[Dan Goulder]

as bad as Bush is, he didn't start this war. They hit us during Clinton's reign. They killed the Israli atheletes in Munic. This goes back a long, long time and after they ran 3 airliners into buildings and 1 into the ground all I have to say is enough is enough. They screwed with THEE most powerful military in the world, what did they expect would happen? Did they think we would just forget about it? They deserve EVERYTHING they're getting and their countries deserve everything they're getting for letting these people live and Al Jazeera deserves the treatment it's getting in this nation for NOT denouncing these monsters as the criminal scum that they are.

None of the people you refer to as "they" have any relation to Iraq...other than race. We're just murdering innocent people of the same race, and labeling it as "payback". The odds are infinitely greater that this action will only provoke future attacks, rather than provide some sort of "solution" to the problem.

 

Regarding al Jazeera: Don't let phony Bush administration rhetoric influence your judgement. They're always making the straw man argument that all 'non-aligned' media, as well as all political opposition, supports terrorism. Having watched both, you might be surprised to find al Jazeera to be far more even handed than Fox. No, they don't advocate terrorist attacks. Is it really fair to accuse them of supporting terrorism just because they show images that are generally censored from American media, such as blown up Arab children, which are so affectionately referred to by our own as "collateral damage"? At least they aren't fabricating their stories, which is more than you can say for far too many homegrown broadcasters.

 

For a typical example of biased journalism, how about checking out Fox superstar Shawn Hannity's recent web poll.

The question:

What do you think about WMDs being found in Iraq?

choose one:

1. It's about time.

2. What, we found some?

3. Bush was right

4. I knew Saddam had them!

 

Between al Jazeera and Fox, only Fox has advocated war, as well as making itself an active promoter of the very Bush administration propaganda that got us into this mess in the first place.

[Tom Bays]

Hypocrites...you people don't give a damn about Iraq and they are suffering more for it now. They have gone 30 years destruction because the world community doesn't give a damn. Oil for food....that little Iraqi kid. Die Iraqi, just don't bother me. Maybe, the world will think it is hip to help them one day instead of just asking to be left alone. I support you my Iraqi brothers...you will win your freedom, it will just be harder than it should be.

 

The humanitarians pissing on you will pass and they will no longer be needed.

[Guest]

Slightly more off topic, but related to the Iraq war.

 

It seems the US military uses non-citizens in its ranks?????? Doesn't that make them mercinaries? A mercenary is a foreigner who fights for another country in exchange for money, correct?

 

mer·ce·nar·y Pronunciation (mûrs-nr)

 

1. Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain.

2. Hired for service in a foreign army.

n. pl. mer·ce·nar·ies

1. One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling.

2. A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army.

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mercenary

 

Apparently the US has 33,000 foreigners in its military:

 

"It made sense to me: If somebody's willing to risk their lives for our country, they ought to be full participants in our country," Bush said. He noted that more than 33,000 non-U.S. citizens currently serve in the military.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060724/ap_on_...ush_immigration

 

This seems very odd, weird, and bizarre?????

 

Especially since the US is so mad that Islamic fighters from other countries are coming to Iraq to fight the US army. It seems the US uses the exact same method.

 

R,

[James Steven Beverly]

None of the people you refer to as "they" have any relation to Iraq...other than race. We're just murdering innocent people of the same race, and labeling it as "payback". The odds are infinitely greater that this action will only provoke future attacks, rather than provide some sort of "solution" to the problem.

 

I wasn't specifically speaking about Iraq, I was speaking about the terrorist scum that infect that area of the world and the apparent lack of demand for attonment, even support from the majority of people in the region. but be that as it is, what about Zarcowi (I don't know how it's spelled nor do I care) and people like him. This guy was a murder, plain and simple and my only wish is that he would have suffered long and lingering before he died. The people being blown up up by IEDs are Iraqies as well as Americans and our allies. and just remember this, we don't go out, round up people and just shoot them because there might be terrorists among them. Could that be said of the regime in Iraq prior to the US invasion? We defend ourselves and those we are sworn to protect. The US military is not the problem, these slimely scum fanatical pyschos fighting for a lost cause that they will never achieve and killing thousands of people in some sick, stupid, evil and utterly useless cause are the problem and the only way to deal with them is to kill them all because they will never stop trying to win and they don't care who they have to sacrifice to do so. The result of that is more and more bodies piling up, American soldiers, Iraqi women and children. Iraqi policemen, people who want to vote in Iraq. How many Americans have to face the possibility of death when they go to vote? Every Iraqi faces that possibility every time he casts a ballot and it's not the Americans that are murdering these people It's there own sick countrymen.

 

As I already stated Bush is a clown and has so mishandled the Iraqi war it's criminal. We should have never invaded Iraq without a hell of a lot more intellegence (espionage and other types of intellegence- ie a presedent that was at least smarter than a toaster) and a greater respect and understanding of the culture, but I don't regret toppling Saddam's regime. One thing that's for sure, we have no intention of staying there. We are NOT an Empire, we are a democracy and we WILL leave Iraq as soon as the situation is stablized. However, we cannot leave our enemies in place because they will only come over here. I know this because they've already BEEN over here twice and recently in England as well. Unfortunately they have to be rooted out and killed. It is the only way to secure the safety of the people in an open society such as ours. It's an ugly truth, but it is the truth none the less.

[Chad Stockfleth]

these slimely scum fanatical pyschos fighting for a lost cause that they will never achieve and killing thousands of people in some sick, stupid, evil and utterly useless cause are the problem and the only way to deal with them is to kill them all because they will never stop trying to win and they don't care who they have to sacrifice to do so.

 

Wow, this could describe the other side as well.

 

Perhaps we don't round up groups of people and shoot them because there are terrorists among them, but we do bomb relatively indiscriminately and kill many, MANY innocent people in our attempts to root out the "Evil" ones.

 

There will NEVER be a time when someone isn't at odds with the United States (for as long as we are around). People need to quit pretending like the day will come when *poof* all of the terrorists and enemies of the state have disappeared and now we are safe forever!!!! Yay!!! It's not going to happen. You are NEVER safe. Deal with it. If it isn't crazy Muslims it'll be crazy rednecks or crazy Asians...hell, there's a sniper shooting randomly at trucks on I65 near here. Crazy is everywhere.

 

If you could pull your head out of your arse long enough to empathize with these people and their situation then we might be able to get somewhere. It's this Us vs. Them mentality that is driving me fricking batty.

 

"Can't we all just get along???"

[Dan Goulder]

Unfortunately they have to be rooted out and killed. It is the only way to secure the safety of the people in an open society such as ours. It's an ugly truth, but it is the truth none the less.

According to the UN, the most recent total of INNOCENT civilian dead in Iraq as a result of our invasion is 50,000. Please explain what those 50,000 dead Iraqi men, women, and children have to do with al Qeida, which is based between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that Zarqawi guy. Yeah, it's a good thing we snuffed out all those people just to get to him, since now there's complete love and peace in the region.

[Guest]

"I was speaking about the terrorist scum that infect that area of the world and the apparent lack of demand for attonment,"

 

What about the home grown American citizen white bread terrorists like Timothy Mc Veigh & Terry Nichols?

 

How will you you get rid of them? What parts of the USA will you start bombing?

 

R,

[Dan Goulder]

What about the home grown American citizen white bread terrorists like Timothy Mc Veigh & Terry Nichols?

 

How will you you get rid of them?

Send them to Iraq. Oh, wait a minute, we already did that.

[Tom Bays]

Citizen of Iraq,

 

"I don't know really know why Saddam's regime lasted for over three decades, but I am sure as an Iraqi who survived that period that there was no legal or moral justifications for it to remain. I was counting days and hours waiting to see an end to that regime, just like all those who suffered the cruelty of that brutal regime. .... Throughout these decades I lost trust in the world governments and international committees. Terms like (human rights, democracy and liberty, etc.) became hollow and meaningless and those who keep repeating these words are liars..liars..liars. I hated the U.N and the security council and Russia and France and Germany and the Arab nations and the islamic conference. I've hated George Galloway and all those marched in the millionic demonstrations against the war. It is I who was oppressed and I don't want any one to talk on behalf of me, I, who was eager to see rockets falling on Saddam's nest to set me free, .... What hurt me more and kept my wound bleeding was that they gave Saddam a tribune .. and offered him a diplomatic representation almost all-over the world to broadcast his filthy propaganda and sprinkle Iraq's wealth on his supporters. I really didn't understand those countries demands to take away our misery. Did they really think that the sanctions were the cause? We were not even human, Saddam wiped off our humanity, we were just numbers .... Believe me, we were living in the "kingdom of horror". .... Can anyone tell me why the world let Saddam remain and stood against America's will to topple him? Till when will the charts of human rights remain incompulsory, cancel them, because they remind you of your big disgrace. Keep giving time and tribunes to regimes like those in Syria, Yemen, North Korea and Libya to justify their presence. To me I don't recognize your committees and I have no time to listen to that nonsense, I've got a long way to walk building my country and helping my people forget the days of abasement. You all owe the Iraqi people an apology."

[N DeWood]

Kemper,

 

Remember who put Sadaam in power, who gave him arms, who allowed him to oppress you, and your people, and who allowed him to gas his people.

 

When he did, the U.S. still had full diplomatic relations with Iraq! It was the Regan administration and Rumsfeld who helped arm him with chemical weapons to kill the Iranians and the Kurds. You seem to forget this, and fail to mention it in your rant.

 

Therefore, no apology is owed to you if you want someone like Bush to free your country. You probably should go to work for him, I am sure he will give you all the apologies you need to hear.

 

It's high time you understand what colonialism means, and that no one in the Bush administration ever wanted freedom for you or any other Iraqi, and that's what many here are aware. Please don't give us this Chalabi line of yours.

 

Nick Woods

 

 

Citizen of Iraq,

 

"I don't know really know why Saddam's regime lasted for over three decades, but I am sure as an Iraqi who survived that period that there was no legal or moral justifications for it to remain. I was counting days and hours waiting to see an end to that regime, just like all those who suffered the cruelty of that brutal regime. .... Throughout these decades I lost trust in the world governments and international committees. Terms like (human rights, democracy and liberty, etc.) became hollow and meaningless and those who keep repeating these words are liars..liars..liars. I hated the U.N and the security council and Russia and France and Germany and the Arab nations and the islamic conference. I've hated George Galloway and all those marched in the millionic demonstrations against the war. It is I who was oppressed and I don't want any one to talk on behalf of me, I, who was eager to see rockets falling on Saddam's nest to set me free, .... What hurt me more and kept my wound bleeding was that they gave Saddam a tribune .. and offered him a diplomatic representation almost all-over the world to broadcast his filthy propaganda and sprinkle Iraq's wealth on his supporters. I really didn't understand those countries demands to take away our misery. Did they really think that the sanctions were the cause? We were not even human, Saddam wiped off our humanity, we were just numbers .... Believe me, we were living in the "kingdom of horror". .... Can anyone tell me why the world let Saddam remain and stood against America's will to topple him? Till when will the charts of human rights remain incompulsory, cancel them, because they remind you of your big disgrace. Keep giving time and tribunes to regimes like those in Syria, Yemen, North Korea and Libya to justify their presence. To me I don't recognize your committees and I have no time to listen to that nonsense, I've got a long way to walk building my country and helping my people forget the days of abasement. You all owe the Iraqi people an apology."

[David Mullen ASC]

OK, why stop at Iraq? Let's just march into every "bad" sovereign country and replace the government. There must be dozens in Africa alone...

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

Send them to Iraq. Oh, wait a minute, we already did that.

 

 

I don't get it...sorry. :huh: Are you calling the soldiers themselves terrorists? I understand where your earlier points come from, but if this is the case.....well, I think that is unfair, to say the least. You can't blame some 18 year old kid dropped in the middle of hell not to make mistakes. Please leave the kids out of it. The guys who killed that family and the picture takers of abu G. have done enough to abuse the reputations of our soldiers. I don't care if you call W. a terrorist to the world, but I feel for the kids. I'm a little biased on the account that two of my friends are over there... :(

 

Of course if you did not mean that, then, um, disregard.

[Tom Bays]

What sovereign dictatorships do you support. It doesn't matter if my dad put Saddam in power. It is the right thing to free them from tyranny...the violence today comes from a lack of giving a damn. 30 years of brutality constructed this divide. It is a moral imperative to change things...but let us just let them die without the right of self-determination as long as we don't have to worry about it.

 

Iraq was the most logistically doable objective...the world is pissing on them again. Terrorists feed off of this do nothing mentality. The middle east is trapped in a time warp that is endless. The over 10 million of 15 million registered voters spoke in Iraq and again the world wants to ignore them. Do you realize how heroic that was...my god. The whole world should be doing everything they can for these people. I sadly, feel people are losing out to self metastasizing political battle and are forgetting the people of Iraq. They can, because they can always blame the US and Israel...just like terrorists. You enable them...I mean that as nicely as I can say it.

 

let let those sovereign countries continue and endless cylce of violence. The internional community is cowering in its own self righteousness. You may feel good...wow, I'm Anti-war, but you only serve selfishness. War sucks and the wrong people die most of the time, but these guys aren't going to stop. Set aside political discourse and deal making for what is right. You might find that vocality works in the long run, but they have to no that you mean it. Don't like Bush if you must (put him in jail) but don't ever say it was the wrong thing to do. The world handled it wrong, but it was right and it will always be right.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Kemper

[N DeWood]

Here's yet one more amazing quote from Kemper: It doesn't matter if "my dad put saddam in power"!!!! YES IT DOES!!

 

The US plays with the lives of millions of arabs and muslims, putting the most extreme brutal and selfish people in power, and then "frees" them of tyranny, when the despots misbehave.

 

You think there's freedom in Iraq because your people were sticking their fingers in purple ink? Give me a break! Voting never means freedom.

 

You don't have freedom when there are 130K troops in Iraq, when the president of the U.S. and his Veep can land their planes in Iraq without notice and walk around like owners.

 

Wake up to the reality of colonialism and racism. It's alive and well in the middle east. That's why the Middle East is in a "time warp" and always will be.

 

Iraqis are now killing each other? Why? Sectarian violence? Terrorists? Saddamists? Death Squads? Some freedom Kemper, no?

 

You truly remind one of Ahmad Chalabi and Fox News.

 

Is this the freedom you want from Bush, you can have it. It's yours, congrats. I hear they're waiting for you in Iraq to strap on a belt. Keep believing in Bush, or you may want to invest in a few books on History and read how colonialism began and still remains in full force in your Iraq.

 

Nick Woods

 

P.s. To all others, sorry for going off topic.

 

 

 

 

 

What sovereign dictatorships do you support. It doesn't matter if my dad put Saddam in power. It is the right thing to free them from tyranny...the violence today comes from a lack of giving a damn. 30 years of brutality constructed this divide. It is a moral imperative to change things...but let us just let them die without the right of self-determination as long as we don't have to worry about it.

 

Iraq was the most logistically doable objective...the world is pissing on them again. Terrorists feed off of this do nothing mentality. The middle east is trapped in a time warp that is endless. The over 10 million of 15 million registered voters spoke in Iraq and again the world wants to ignore them. Do you realize how heroic that was...my god. The whole world should be doing everything they can for these people. I sadly, feel people are losing out to self metastasizing political battle and are forgetting the people of Iraq. They can, because they can always blame the US and Israel...just like terrorists. You enable them...I mean that as nicely as I can say it.

 

let let those sovereign countries continue and endless cylce of violence. The internional community is cowering in its own self righteousness. You may feel good...wow, I'm Anti-war, but you only serve selfishness. War sucks and the wrong people die most of the time, but these guys aren't going to stop. Set aside political discourse and deal making for what is right. You might find that vocality works in the long run, but they have to no that you mean it. Don't like Bush if you must (put him in jail) but don't ever say it was the wrong thing to do. The world handled it wrong, but it was right and it will always be right.

[Alex Ellerman]

Re: foreign citizens in army...

 

you have to love this one... Bush, in his finite wisdom, dodges serving time in actual war... and uses foreign citizens in army... if they serve, i believe they are granted US citizenship... that's the carrot.

 

Honorable...

[James Steven Beverly]

Here's yet one more amazing quote from Kemper: It doesn't matter if "my dad put saddam in power"!!!! YES IT DOES!!

 

The US plays with the lives of millions of arabs and muslims, putting the most extreme brutal and selfish people in power, and then "frees" them of tyranny, when the despots misbehave.

 

You think there's freedom in Iraq because your people were sticking their fingers in purple ink? Give me a break! Voting never means freedom.

 

You don't have freedom when there are 130K troops in Iraq, when the president of the U.S. and his Veep can land their planes in Iraq without notice and walk around like owners.

 

Wake up to the reality of colonialism and racism. It's alive and well in the middle east. That's why the Middle East is in a "time warp" and always will be.

 

Iraqis are now killing each other? Why? Sectarian violence? Terrorists? Saddamists? Death Squads? Some freedom Kemper, no?

 

You truly remind one of Ahmad Chalabi and Fox News.

 

Is this the freedom you want from Bush, you can have it. It's yours, congrats. I hear they're waiting for you in Iraq to strap on a belt. Keep believing in Bush, or you may want to invest in a few books on History and read how colonialism began and still remains in full force in your Iraq.

 

Nick Woods

 

P.s. To all others, sorry for going off topic.

 

Dude what the Hell is wrong with you. You sit there armchar quarterbacking like you actually know something and trying to tell THIS GUY WHO LIVED THERE all about it. You think you ACTUALLY have ANYTHING to say to him? You have NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. You think because you READ something YOU KNOW WHAT IT WAS LIKE to want freedom more than life? What til secret police break into your house in the middle of the night and drag off your family to be tortured and killed and see it YOU don'T pray for someone, ANYONE , to end your nightmare, then MAYBE you might have something to say to Kemper, I wonder if YOU might have a bullet put through your brain or be blown to bits when YOU went to vote if YOU'D have the guts to step out into that street.

 

Iraqies aren't killing Iraqies. Terrorist scum are killing Iraqies. Evil monsters want to turn back the clock and enslave these people again. And by the way, where did you hear ANYONE suggest turning Iraq into an American colony?

 

Oh, and Richard I don't have to bomb any place in the US, I case you've forgotten, Timothy Mc Veigh & Terry Nichols were caught and convicted as were the terrorists that planned the first attack on the world trade center and the guy who bombed Atlanta. So I really don't have to bomb anywere in the US because we have laws and people willing to enforce them.

 

As for bombing innocents, in a war, people die that's why they call it war. We did everything we could short of endangering our own men to spare the population collateral casualties. In a "Good" war like WW2 how many civians died? War is a very ugly, horrible thing as Sherman said, "War IS Hell" but sometimes wars have to be fought. David mentioned something about Africa, one of the most disgracful acts of this nation was that we let the genecide in Ruwanda happen with out challange and then there was the luckwarm responce to the genecide in the Sudan. We don't have to be the world's police but we certainly should do what we can to stop the annialation of an entire race of people.

 

To suggest that the American soldiers are ANYTHING like the terrorist scum they fight is simply a stupid statment and one not worthy of even responding to.

 

As for "Pulling my head out of my arse" as someone colorfully suggested you seem to be the one who doesn't care about these people. You would have us leave and let this flegling democracy desend int civil war. How noble of you. What a humanitarian. I would truly love to tell you EXACTLY what I think of your comment BUT I already had to do 3 days pennance and quite frankly your not worth the trouble.

[David Mullen ASC]

What sovereign dictatorships do you support. It doesn't matter if my dad put Saddam in power. It is the right thing to free them from tyranny...

 

You have an extremely simplistic and naive view of the world if you don't understand the problem of going around and disposing the leadership of every "bad" country in the world, beyond just the practical matter. What are you, twelve years old?

 

Sovereignty should mean something, respect for borders should mean something, or else why is it any different if a foreign country views our leadership as "bad" and marches in to replace it?

 

Most of Europe thinks Bush is a bad leader -- should the EU create an army and invade the U.S. and give us a better president because "it's for our own good"? Don't you see the danger in deciding which governments should be allowed to exist and which should be eliminated? It becomes imperialism. Who gets to decide? How can we trust that we are always in the right in deciding? What if it's some other country deciding for us?

 

Once we wrap up in Iraq we should just invade another "bad" country and then another and then another, be in a shooting war for the next hundred years or so until all the bad countries are eliminated? So what's next on the hit list? Do we bomb and invade Syria.. or North Korea? Maybe the Darfur region? Liberia? Myanmar? And what if any of these "bad" countries has big allies that join in the fight against us?

 

With this sort of "white-man's burden" thinking on the part of some Americans, it's no wonder that in Europe, the USA is voted in polls as the greatest threat to world peace, not radical Islamists.

 

It's only after-the-fact, now that we know that there was no immediate threat to the USA, no weapons of mass destruction, that the Iraq War is being justified as "we went there to free the Iraqi people" as if we really cared more about the welfare of those people than anyone else in the world. In other words, we pre-emptively attacked a sovereign nation under the flimsy justification that we were in some sort of immediate threat... and when that turned out not to be true, we didn't have the balls to say "oops, my bad..."

 

What happened to the notion of war as a last resort?

[James Steven Beverly]

Your right, noone is going to invade the US, not because they feel it's wrong, but because we have the strongest army on the planet and would obliterate anyone who tried. Our nuclear arsenal keeped Soviet missiles out of Cuba not some sense of rightous indignation at the thought of invading another country to replace it's government. As for staying out of other people's affairs, you might just as well say we should never have fought the Korean war. We should have let the North invade to "Unify" the country, after all, it's a Korean problem not ours. I wonder if you'll feel the same way about North Korean if they ever get that damn ICBM of theirs to work and they're able to drop a nuke on LA with it.

 

If Iran gets much closer to developing nuclear weapons they'll be the ones we'll have to deal with next. There's a damn good chance we WILL have to, at the very least, bomb the hell out of them and at the worst invade them and replace thier governmant. We can't and won't let a repressive regime like that dominate the region. We don't have a choice about that.

 

We can't stay isolated and indifferent to the world's problems, we've tried it during WW1 and it just doesn't work. We're suppose to stand for freedom and the rights of men. We did NOTHING about Rawanda and how many people died there BECAUSE we did nothing. What about the Sudan? How often should we stand by and let things like that happen? How many people have to be murdered before it becomes our problem? If the Japanese hadn't hit Pearl Harbor, should we have let Hitler finish coquering Europe? After all, he never declared war on us before the bombing, maybe he wouldn't have. Maybe he would have been satisfied with Europe and left us alone.

 

We can't fix all the problems of the world and noone wants a policy of taking out people simply because we don't like them, but sometimes there are leaders that are simply to dangerous to be allowed to live and there are times when we do have to take pre-emptive measures and there are times when we HAVE to take action against tyranny, even if it casts us to do so.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Capt.Video

[Chris Pritzlaff]

"Evil monsters want to turn back the clock and enslave these people again."

 

What is this - an old sci-fi film? Who's master plan is it to turn back the clock exactly? They are fighting for control of a country that is already falling apart, not some plot to turn back time and enslave the population.

 

 

"And by the way, where did you hear ANYONE suggest turning Iraq into an American colony?"

 

I don't know - invading another country, eliminating their government, and forcing your own system of government and burracracy sounds a lot like a form of colonization to me. Anyone else? As most agree, we have gotten so far into this mess that we cannot simply leave and let the country fall completly apart. We have to stay there and mantain order, essentailly creating an American outpost in the middle east.

 

 

"Oh, and Richard I don't have to bomb any place in the US, I case you've forgotten, Timothy Mc Veigh & Terry Nichols were caught and convicted as were the terrorists that planned the first attack on the world trade center and the guy who bombed Atlanta. So I really don't have to bomb anywere in the US because we have laws and people willing to enforce them."

 

So why didn't we continue to work in this way? We should have been able to extract Bin Laden without bombing two innocent countries to dirt. Do remember that Sadam had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks, so catching the terrorists for punishment is no excuses for the war we went to in those countries.

 

 

 

 

I think we have all strayed far from the topic by now

[David Mullen ASC]

Has it even occurred to you, "Captain", that the USA, by its actions, is contributing to the rise of radical Islamic militancy? That we may be making the situation worse rather than better? That by our bull-headed military actions, we give impetutus for these countries to develop nuclear arms and the missiles to deploy them? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Your kind of thinking will make the world so dangerous that we'll have no choice but to start bombing all the enemies we helped create. Just reading what you've written, if I were in Iran, I'd be trying to fast-forward my nuclear program! I mean, look, we like to beat-up on countries like Iraq but we leave nuclear-powers like North Korea alone -- the logical conclusion is if you don't want to be bombed by the USA, get ahold of a nuclear arsenal. What have we done to convince them otherwise?

 

Military action is sometimes inevitable, even imperative, but it has to lead to the establishment of long-term peace and law & order, not plant the seeds for even bigger wars, more violence, more instability, more injustice. Otherwise all those people would have died for nothing.

[N DeWood]

Actually Capt. Video I do know allot about the region, having lived and travelled there for many years, and in the process learned the language and culture.

 

I've personally met many of the hundreds of thousands who fled to Jordan and other countries during the war, one of the biggest brain power drain in the history of any country. Many were lawyers, doctors, engineers, and your average business people. They couldn't bear to live a single second more in Bush's Iraq.

 

That's why I suggested to Kemper to stick his finger in some purple crap and go to Iraq. He won't, and he will never move there. They talk the good talk, but wait when reality comes knocking.

 

Yes, many Iraqi's disliked Sadam and his two sons, and had various negative views of him (after all he was a dictator). But most also see their country invaded, raped, and shredded along sectarian lines. Many at least found that Sadam kept their violent and sectarian ridden country intact, and kept Iran and foreign influence at bay. And if it wasn't for the devastating embargo for 13 years, their country would have been able

 

Sadam also believed that religion should not play a role in government, and kept the crazy influence of extreme religious views out of the country. So, things aren't black and white simple. Also, you'll never hear about Sadam's contributions and service to the U.S. but starting an 8 year war with Iran. Even Capt. Video would be proud of Sadam's contribution. ;)

 

The voting you all saw on TV wasn't for democracy. It was a vote to reinforce the deep sectarian lines of Iraq. Bush knew it, repackaged as freedom. Except this time it backfired.

 

Bush now realizes that you can no longer divide and conquer in that part of the world.

 

If you are a Sunni you vote Sunni. If you are a Shite you vote Shite. Kurd you vote Kurd, on an on. There is no democaracy. It was a lie, that just happened to look good according to our controlled media.

 

So, Capt. Video and Kemper, there are job openings in the Bush administration. They always need people blaming the bogeyman "terrorist."

 

Nick Woods

 

 

 

 

 

Dude what the Hell is wrong with you. You sit there armchar quarterbacking like you actually know something and trying to tell THIS GUY WHO LIVED THERE all about it. You think you ACTUALLY have ANYTHING to say to him? You have NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. You think because you READ something YOU KNOW WHAT IT WAS LIKE to want freedom more than life? What til secret police break into your house in the middle of the night and drag off your family to be tortured and killed and see it YOU don'T pray for someone, ANYONE , to end your nightmare, then MAYBE you might have something to say to Kemper, I wonder if YOU might have a bullet put through your brain or be blown to bits when YOU went to vote if YOU'D have the guts to step out into that street.

 

Iraqies aren't killing Iraqies. Terrorist scum are killing Iraqies. Evil monsters want to turn back the clock and enslave these people again. And by the way, where did you hear ANYONE suggest turning Iraq into an American colony?

 

Oh, and Richard I don't have to bomb any place in the US, I case you've forgotten, Timothy Mc Veigh & Terry Nichols were caught and convicted as were the terrorists that planned the first attack on the world trade center and the guy who bombed Atlanta. So I really don't have to bomb anywere in the US because we have laws and people willing to enforce them.

 

As for bombing innocents, in a war, people die that's why they call it war. We did everything we could short of endangering our own men to spare the population collateral casualties. In a "Good" war like WW2 how many civians died? War is a very ugly, horrible thing as Sherman said, "War IS Hell" but sometimes wars have to be fought. David mentioned something about Africa, one of the most disgracful acts of this nation was that we let the genecide in Ruwanda happen with out challange and then there was the luckwarm responce to the genecide in the Sudan. We don't have to be the world's police but we certainly should do what we can to stop the annialation of an entire race of people.

 

To suggest that the American soldiers are ANYTHING like the terrorist scum they fight is simply a stupid statment and one not worthy of even responding to.

 

As for "Pulling my head out of my arse" as someone colorfully suggested you seem to be the one who doesn't care about these people. You would have us leave and let this flegling democracy desend int civil war. How noble of you. What a humanitarian. I would truly love to tell you EXACTLY what I think of your comment BUT I already had to do 3 days pennance and quite frankly your not worth the trouble.

[Gareth Munden]

As a British man I find it very funny when you guys blame yourselves ( The USA ) for islamic militancy, sorry to bore you but this has been going on since you were throwing tea into the sea.

There has been war between muslim and christians since Mohammed gave the world his book, it's as simple as that.

As for looking for someone to blame for the modern problems, the left ( in Europe anyway ) seems too put the blame on the Israeli's for just wanting a home. Iran's elite use this all the time, "sorry guys life is poop for you because of the Zionist Jews" not because you have no VOTE no FREEDOM of expression . The Islamic world use the Israeli's like this every day.

As for Al Jazeera, one thing that upset me was the fact that they had a video of the London bombers and waited for 7/7 2006 when all of London was in morning too show this "back to Back" on their channel, nice.

 

Not sure if this makes any sense. But thats what I'm thinking at this time.

 

Gareth Munden. London UK.