"pros and cons" of gun ownership

[Michael Nash]

I would like to encourage everyone to be civil. I'm just another concerned forum user and not an authority here, but please.

[Mike Welle]

That's an interesting perspective. It appears you are denying or, in the very least, casting doubt on the truthfulness of all of the facts I stated about Iraq (you know, those pesky little truths about all these soldiers and Iraqi citizens dying, the numerous Iraqis tortured and so many of those billions of dollars being wasted on no bid contracts much of which are going to Halliburton.) And if I'm understanding correctly you believe that because your friend served in the military and fought in Iraq, and was "there" and told you things are going fairly well, that his account simply makes all of those "facts" not true or questionable. How quaint. That's similar to the way a child might say they believe in Santa Clause because their friend told them he saw cookie crumbs, and an empty glass of milk in front of their family's tree on Christmas morning. Your statement is like saying the earth is 4,000 years old because you read it in the Bible when the carbon dating of the oldest rocks indicates that it's 4.5 billion years old. It's very much like a former oil lobbyist and former white house official who deleted information on a global warming report despite the fact that it came from reliable scientific research on the matter. Wouldn't it be great if we could create our own reality?:

 

http://www.slowpokecomics.com/strips/reality.gif

 

All the best,

Mike Welle

 

Sorry Mike, but i'm going to take the word of a man whose been there than the opinions of man who has not.

Edited July 8, 2006 by Mike Welle

[VincentD.]

No I'm not doing that at all.

 

By the way, Clinton also gave no bid contracts to numerous companies...including Haliburton.

 

And actually, talk to any scientist and they will tell you carbon dating is severely flawed.

[Mike Welle]

Oh my Gosh. I am laughing so hard at your total show of ignorance, that I'm not sure if I'm laughing or crying. To paraphrase Shakespeare, there may as well be amity and life between snow and fire as truth and your statements. I would absolutely love to see where you are getting this information about Clinton and no bid contracts but I'm sure you're pulling it out of your rear end, and scientists saying carbon dating is flawed...that is beautiful. You really should be working for the Bush administration. I'm done here.

 

If I continue to waste my time arguing with you more whack jobs will come along with more whacky and downright dangerous claims. God, if we don't get a democrat in the oval office I'm seriously worried what will happen in thirty years. I guarantee (with 95 percent accuracy), that statement will cause nutjobs to respond. Or maybe they won't because I just said they would and they want to prove me wrong for saying they would. Or maybe they want to prove me wrong for saying I said they would respond, and then I said they would'nt respond so maybe they will respond. Anyway, have fun living in that little bubble of yours. Enjoy the comic, if you understand my plight:

 

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=18944

 

All the best,

Mike Welle

No I'm not doing that at all.

 

By the way, Clinton also gave no bid contracts to numerous companies...including Haliburton.

 

And actually, talk to any scientist and they will tell you carbon dating is severely flawed.

[VincentD.]

Here is the info. on Clinton:

 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=15426

 

And here is the info. on the flaws of carbon dating:

 

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/carbon14.html

 

I wonder whose really ignorant?

[Mike Welle]

Those are some pretty unbiased news sources you've got there, champ. Want to show us some of that information backed up by a credible news source other than a ultra-right wing website with cheesy pictures of large breasted Republican women, books about the 101 most dangerous academics in America, and a very provocative question: Did Anne (Coulter) go too far? Now you're going to start whining/lying about the fact that the website is very credible, blah, blah, blah. Or maybe you'll give me a little "fair and balanced" Fox news. Why don't you open your eyes and pull your head out of your ass? Gosh, those sure look like the kind of websites that your average joe looks at. Let me see how many Pulitzers those have won:

 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/

 

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/

 

As far as who is really ignorant it is obviously you. None of what you said is true, just more Republican lies. And before you go off blaming global warming on the gays, why don't you take a good hard look at a credible news source (CNN, New York Times) and I'll consider the plausibility. Now watch, you'll go off about the New York Times--and the liberal media. Have fun!

 

Mike Welle

 

 

Here is the info. on Clinton:

 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=15426

 

And here is the info. on the flaws of carbon dating:

 

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/carbon14.html

 

I wonder whose really ignorant?

[Guest Ken Maskrey]

I don't know if someone mentioned this already, but I saw that in the old days when independents were first starting out on their own, studios would hire sharpshooters to shoot thru the intependents' cameras so they couldn't continue.

[VincentD.]

While we're on the subject of ignorance, who said I was a Republican? I like how your first reaction is to call me a republican and go off on these stereotypes that I must watch Fox News or make some other claims that are way off base. Then you put words in my mouth and try to "predict" what I'll say next. Alas, the first sign one is losing a debate is when he resorts to name calling and attacks the other side, without talking about the issues.

 

Concerning the articles I linked to, their credibility stands until you can disprove one thing stated in them. If you can't, then move on.

 

By the way, I'm a registered Independent. The Republican party has lost the principles which brought it to power, and the Democrats do a pretty lousy job of countering the Republicans. A politician is a politician is a politician.

 

 

Those are some pretty unbiased news sources you've got there, champ. Want to show us some of that information backed up by a credible news source other than a ultra-right wing website with cheesy pictures of large breasted Republican women, books about the 101 most dangerous academics in America, and a very provocative question: Did Anne (Coulter) go too far? Now you're going to start whining/lying about the fact that the website is very credible, blah, blah, blah. Or maybe you'll give me a little "fair and balanced" Fox news. Why don't you open your eyes and pull your head out of your ass? Gosh, those sure look like the kind of websites that your average joe looks at. Let me see how many Pulitzers those have won:

 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/

 

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/

 

As far as who is really ignorant it is obviously you. None of what you said is true, just more Republican lies. And before you go off blaming global warming on the gays, why don't you take a good hard look at a credible news source (CNN, New York Times) and I'll consider the plausibility. Now watch, you'll go off about the New York Times--and the liberal media. Have fun!

 

Mike Welle

[Mike Welle]

No. I said it before and I'll say it again, find me one well-known news source (I mean a household name like CNN, Time, Newsweek, and/or The New York Times) that supports these claims (the carbon dating one and the Clinton/Halliburton one). The ones you gave me have no credibility. Secondly, Bill O'Reilly claims to be a registered independent. He hides under this mask to give himself reputability. In truth, he is a disgusting Republican. Let me ask you this, if you will answer me honestly: Who did you vote for, for president in 2000 and 2004. If the answer is George W. Bush, I would say you are not an independent since you registered votes for a Republican. But why should I even trust a damn thing you have to say? You lie about the situation in Iraq. You're an idiot about Clinton and carbon dating. Concerning the articles you linked to the credibility never stood because they were completely false to begin with. By the way that is so trite about the democrats doing a pretty lousy job countering the Republicans--they are in the minority--of course they are going to have difficulty fighting back when they have less representation. That's right, they're all politicians--and politicians are all just blowing in the wind--how insightful--where do I sign up to hear more of your keen insights into politics? Its so nice to equivocate. There's no difference between Anne Coulter and Michael Moore they are just two sides of the same political coin. I really fear for this country and the total show of ignorance that people like you show. Thirty years from now, and mark my words (I saw Al Gore's film) when people like you who are oblivious to global warming (I assume that because you question carbon dating)--when people like you are wondering why New York and Los Angeles are flooded with water and saying that the gays are at fault and this is God's wrath for gays and that it has nothing to do with carbon dioxide emmisions from giant SUVs and gas guzzling cars--think back (if your short term memory provides)--think back to what I said today--and you shall see the truth. That's all I have to say about this. If you want to win this stupid little debate, chalk up a meaningless point on your materialistic blackboard. O remember this another day, when it shall split your very heart with sorrow, and say poor Michael was a prophet. Thus doth he force the swords of wicked men to turn their own points on their masters bosoms. In the words of Socrates, there is only one good knowledge and one evil ignorance. I will not say another word to you about this matter.

 

Mike Welle

While we're on the subject of ignorance, who said I was a Republican? I like how your first reaction is to call me a republican and go off on these stereotypes that I must watch Fox News or make some other claims that are way off base. Then you put words in my mouth and try to "predict" what I'll say next. Alas, the first sign one is losing a debate is when he resorts to name calling and attacks the other side, without talking about the issues.

 

Concerning the articles I linked to, their credibility stands until you can disprove one thing stated in them. If you can't, then move on.

 

By the way, I'm a registered Independent. The Republican party has lost the principles which brought it to power, and the Democrats do a pretty lousy job of countering the Republicans. A politician is a politician is a politician.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Mike Welle

[VincentD.]

Boy oh boy, where to begin.

 

Well first of all, "news sources" aren't supposed to take sides on issues, they are supposed to report the news. They should NOT be supporting any claims. This is why I don't watch either Fox News, or CNN, or the BBC, and very little MSNBC. News companies today can't seperate fact from opinion.

 

Here is another link to Clinton/Halliburton.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/script/print.../york070903.asp

 

This comes from National Review, which is a highly regarded Conservative magazine. Do you honestly think I would go out of my way to lie about somthing so insignificant as Halliburton and Clinton? I mean give me a break. And do you honestly think all these sites are just making up the same information? They all talk about THE SAME CONTRACT. I find it interesting that all these sites share the same details. It must be that "vast right wing conspiracy" right? Did it ever occur to you that the Times, and CNN don't report this stuff because they are indeed biased too? Talk about ignorance.

 

Do you think the world is that black and white that because you voted for somebody of a certain political party you MUST be a member of that party? In 2000 I was not old enough to vote, but I would not have voted for Bush if I was old enough. Bush may be conservative on social issues, but how conservative can one be when they agree on an Education bill with Ted Kennedy? In 2004, I voted for Bush because the election was way too close and I saw how Nader killed Gore in 2000, so I wasn't going to waste my vote on a third party candidate. I hope that clears up my voting record for you, since you can't seem to grasp the concept of somthing that isn't black and white.

 

And why do you constantly have to portray me as this cliche, naive Christian with a low IQ? Read some works by Augustine and Lewis, and you will begin to grasp the complexities of the Christian religion, which so many "intellectuals" continue to attack. I find it odd that Christianity, which has fostered Western Culture, is now under attack by so many people today. We are destroying the backbone of our very civilization. Anyway, this wasn't meant to be a religous topic, but your attacks (using some very unoriginal comments I might add) turned it into one.

 

You have resorted to name calling and mud slinging in an attempt to disprove the evidence I have provided, that at least cast doubts on your "facts". Alas, ignorance is bliss.

 

Once again, I ask you to disprove one piece of evidence used in the articles I linked to. You can attack their credibility all day, but when it comes down to it, if you can't prove it wrong, then your credibility is the one people should be questioning.

 

Since you have said you will not be saying another word on this topic (which I somehow doubt very much) I shouldn't be seeing another reply from you. It's been fun though.

 

 

No. I said it before and I'll say it again, find me one well-known news source (I mean a household name like CNN, Time, Newsweek, and/or The New York Times) that supports these claims (the carbon dating one and the Clinton/Halliburton one). The ones you gave me have no credibility. Secondly, Bill O'Reilly claims to be a registered independent. He hides under this mask to give himself reputability. In truth, he is a disgusting Republican. Let me ask you this, if you will answer me honestly: Who did you vote for, for president in 2000 and 2004. If the answer is George W. Bush, I would say you are not an independent since you registered votes for a Republican. But why should I even trust a damn thing you have to say? You lie about the situation in Iraq. You're an idiot about Clinton and carbon dating. Concerning the articles you linked to the credibility never stood because they were completely false to begin with. By the way that is so trite about the democrats doing a pretty lousy job countering the Republicans--they are in the minority--of course they are going to have difficulty fighting back when they have less representation. That's right, they're all politicians--and politicians are all just blowing in the wind--how insightful--where do I sign up to hear more of your keen insights into politics? Its so nice to equivocate. There's no difference between Anne Coulter and Michael Moore they are just two sides of the same political coin. I really fear for this country and the total show of ignorance that people like you show. Thirty years from now, and mark my words (I saw Al Gore's film) when people like you who are oblivious to global warming (I assume that because you question carbon dating)--when people like you are wondering why New York and Los Angeles are flooded with water and saying that the gays are at fault and this is God's wrath for gays and that it has nothing to do with carbon dioxide emmisions from giant SUVs and gas guzzling cars--think back (if your short term memory provides)--think back to what I said today--and you shall see the truth. That's all I have to say about this. If you want to win this stupid little debate, chalk up a meaningless point on your materialistic blackboard. O remember this another day, when it shall split your very heart with sorrow, and say poor Michael was a prophet. Thus doth he force the swords of wicked men to turn their own points on their masters bosoms. In the words of Socrates, there is only one good knowledge and one evil ignorance. I will not say another word to you about this matter.

 

Mike Welle

Edited July 11, 2006 by VincentD.