GY-HD100 vs HVX200 COLORS!!!!!!

[neil harris]

Hi all

 

I will buy either JVC HD100 or HVX200 + Redrock + Nikon lenses

 

I have seen the following footage:

 

http://www.redrockmicro.com/samples.html

 

1) Clip from "The Infinite Tree" (HVX200 + nikon lenses)

2)Clip from the Feature Film "Yesterday's Tomorrows"

 

The COLORS on the HVX200 are just fantastic

 

then I saw JVC HD100 footage

 

ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips...DVR/web_006.wmv

 

the colors are just not there

 

MY QUESTION to you guys

 

Is HVX200 better to capture the colors, Is it possible to get great colors like that using the JVC HD100

 

Cheers

 

Neil Harris

 

Montreal Canada

[Brian Drysdale]

You can set up the HD100 to give you more saturated colours than the factory settings.

 

Unfortunately, you can't really tell what the cameras are giving you unless you have them side by side shooting the same subject. With a graded film you're watching end result after the colourist has adjusted the material, which could be very different to what the camera has recorded.

 

Best way is to test both cameras and see which you prefer colour wise.

[Rod Otaviano]

then I saw JVC HD100 footage

 

ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips...DVR/web_006.wmv

 

This clip wasn't shot on a HD100. They were using that new camera SI-1920 by Silicon Imaging and this is a raw ungraded footage.

 

http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com/2006_05_...ve_archive.html

[Brian Drysdale]

Yes, "Spoon" is the feature film being shot in South Africa on the Silicon Imaging camera.

 

This material is ungraded RAW, so you can't tell anything colour wise. I've seen some test grades done by people online and the results are very nice. Very different from the look of the original rushes.

[Daniel O'Brien]

That is amazing what their doing on "spoon"

[Mussil]

The JVC is the only one, which can be handled very professionally.

But I am very disappointed of its quality in the post production.

Stephan

http://www.mussil.com

[Michael Maier]

The JVC is the only one, which can be handled very professionally.

But I am very disappointed of its quality in the post production.

Stephan

http://www.mussil.com

 

 

You must be handling it wrong. I have seen amazing results with color corrected HD100 footage.

[Rod Otaviano]

The JVC is the only one, which can be handled very professionally.

But I am very disappointed of its quality in the post production.

 

Would you elaborate a bit more on that ? I have the feeling you are talking about the HDV codec, right ? If that's the case, have you tried switching to a more editing friendly codec ?

[Markus Lanxinger]

Hi all

 

I will buy either JVC HD100 or HVX200 + Redrock + Nikon lenses

 

I have seen the following footage:

 

http://www.redrockmicro.com/samples.html

 

1) Clip from "The Infinite Tree" (HVX200 + nikon lenses)

2)Clip from the Feature Film "Yesterday's Tomorrows"

 

The COLORS on the HVX200 are just fantastic

 

then I saw JVC HD100 footage

 

ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips...DVR/web_006.wmv

 

the colors are just not there

 

MY QUESTION to you guys

 

Is HVX200 better to capture the colors, Is it possible to get great colors like that using the JVC HD100

 

Cheers

 

Neil Harris

 

Montreal Canada

 

 

Well, the JVC HD100 is HDV and recording on a DV/HDV tape with a compression ration of 15:1 while only working in a 4:1:1 colorspace.

 

On the other hand, the Panasonic HVX200 is recording on P2 cards with a DVCPRO HD compression of 5:1 and also maintaining a colorspace of 4:2:2.

 

that should explain why the color of the hvx200 look so much better than those of the hd100.

 

cheers

[Timothy Brown]

Well, the JVC HD100 is HDV and recording on a DV/HDV tape with a compression ration of 15:1 while only working in a 4:1:1 colorspace.

 

On the other hand, the Panasonic HVX200 is recording on P2 cards with a DVCPRO HD compression of 5:1 and also maintaining a colorspace of 4:2:2.

 

that should explain why the color of the hvx200 look so much better than those of the hd100.

 

cheers

 

...Or perhaps the camera was on its default settings without proper set-up and adjustment.

 

Have a look here for more information: http://www.bluesky-web.com/HDVHVX.htm

[Walter Graff]

You are trying to compare different footage based on cameras when in reality what you are seeing is the filmmakers choice in use of color. It has little to do with how a camera can or can not produce color. In my extensive testing of both cameras I found they both produce colors exactly like each other. I did notice that too much saturation in the reds seemed to affect the HDV codec negatively but color wise a rule you can follow is that all cameras in the same price range can basically make the same picture with subjective ergonomics being the only real factor in determining what camera is "better". Here is a bit on my testing.

 

http://www.bluesky-web.com/HDVHVX.htm

[Mr. Shannon W. Rawls]

Well, the JVC HD100 is HDV and recording on a DV/HDV tape with a compression ration of 15:1 while only working in a 4:1:1 colorspace.

 

On the other hand, the Panasonic HVX200 is recording on P2 cards with a DVCPRO HD compression of 5:1 and also maintaining a colorspace of 4:2:2.

 

that should explain why the color of the hvx200 look so much better than those of the hd100.

 

cheers

Every spec you gave is absolutely incorrect. Quite amazing, actually.

[steve hyde]

Every spec you gave is absolutely incorrect. Quite amazing, actually.

 

What are the correct specs? The ones he gave make sense to me. I thought DV can only handle 4:1:1 color space and its widely known that the HVX records to P2 at 4:2:2.. What are the correct specs?

 

Steve

[Michael Nash]

What are the correct specs? The ones he gave make sense to me. I thought DV can only handle 4:1:1 color space and its widely known that the HVX records to P2 at 4:2:2.. What are the correct specs?

 

Steve

 

Standard Def DV is 4:1:1 color and approximately 5:1 compression.

 

HDV is 4:2:0 color and approx. 15:1 compression

 

DVCPRO HD is 4:2:2 color and approximately 6.8:1 compression

[john Spear]

I thought Walter's comparison study was a real eye opener, at least that's the way I see it. I am about to embark on shooting a feature with the JVC GY HD 110U and the other cameraman has a Panasonic HVX which we placed side to side the other day at his house. What I could see was the exact same findings Which Walter put so eloquently transformed into words and images. It reinforces our findings 100% plus it adds to the fact that HVX has a "softer" look which seems to be native to it. I suggested to him (the other cam. man) to exchange it for a HD110U so we could get a couple of Letus and) some 35mm zeiss primes and be able to have a 2 cam shoot. We'll see. He said he surely wanted to after looking at the results in our test. I will forward Mr. Graff's results as well, since they resound and echo our experience...

 

Much appreciated.

 

John

[Walter Graff]

Here is the reality with the HVX. It was first generation HD camera. Panasonic did the same trick that Andromeda did with the DVX100, use electronics and mathematics to simulate an HD picture. It's simply a DVX head end wiht a bit more electronics, a slightly larger looking shell, and Panasonics P2 that failed to catch on as a ENG format two years earlier. As costs go, eht profit for the HVX was huge for Panaosnic because they were able to use so much of what they already had in existance. Take that plus the fact that the frame size of the HVX is the smallest of any HD camera, and that while the spec for record is 4:2:2, the HVX head end is more like 4:2:0 when all factors in how it makes a picture are applied and you have a no brainer. It is a camera that makes a soft picture regardless of how much detail you apply and one that needs colors to be pumped to get it to match other cameras.

[john Spear]

I would strongly suggest testing the flexibility in picture quality of the HD100. I tested the settings provided below today in a park with a good variety of greens and other colors including skin texture. The day was sunny and the contrast in the shadows was good (gray to blacks). I am looking for a quality cinematic film look, or as I would rather put it, film "feel". And although this it is mainly achieved through story telling and your ability (and your team actors , art department, make up wardrobe etc.) to project that story visually and emotionally, we cannot underestimate the importance of the overall "look" you want to achieve. It is the prerequisite of any artist, no matter what art to prepare, more so a filmmaker or cinematographer. I tried Paolo Ciccone's true color settings, and the other variations and I like the look of all of them, I appreciate their input and dedication to come up with them as well as share them with people who can and will benefit from them such as myself. The "wide latitude" variation I thought, was the most adequate filmic feel I have seen so far, although I will test it again under other conditions and settings including interiors. A bit less saturated, in my view all elements in the picture, or moving picture are film inclusive as opposed to the more scattered and diversified video look. More latitude to correct in post, although minimal correction if any would be required. Quality as opposed to.... So as a response to the first post:

 

"The COLORS on the HVX200 are just fantastic

 

then I saw JVC HD100 footage

 

ftp://www.atomic-vfx.com/spoon_test_clips...DVR/web_006.wmv

 

the colors are just not there

 

MY QUESTION to you guys

 

Is HVX200 better to capture the colors, Is it possible to get great colors like that using the JVC HD100

 

Cheers

 

Neil Harris

 

 

 

NOTE : Paolo Ciccone has his settings for true color different than the one posted below. I double checked it in his site and these are either not accurate or they have been updated. Here is the link: http://paolociccone.com/hd100-calibration-3.html

 

And for reference, here are the settings:

 

WIDELAT2

Master Black -1

Detail MIN

Black STRETCH3

White Clip 108%

Knee MANUAL

Level 80%

Cinelike CINELIKE

Color Matrix OFF

Adjust (all NORMAL)

Gamma STANDARD

Level NORMAL

Color Gain NORMAL

 

TRUCLRPC (Paolo Ciccone)

Master Black -2

Detail MIN

Black STRETCH1

White Clip 108%

Knee MANUAL

Level 90%

Cinelike OFF

Color Matrix STANDARD

Adjust

- R Gain 3

- R Rotation 4

- G Gain 2

- G Rotation NORMAL

- B Gain 3

- B Rotation -3

Gamma CINELIKE

Level -1

Color Gain NORMAL

 

TRUCLRET ("widelat" variation)

Master Black -1

Detail MIN

Black STRETCH3

White Clip 108%

Knee MANUAL

Level 80%

Cinelike OFF

Color Matrix STANDARD

Adjust

- R Gain 3

- R Rotation 4

- G Gain 2

- G Rotation NORMAL

- B Gain 3

- B Rotation -3

Gamma CINELIKE

Level NORMAL

Color Gain NORMAL