I PROMISE...

[Guest]

Who said nature had a plan? You seem insenced that we have to deal with that. Reality is what it is. You seen to have some delusional view that nature would get along just fine if we let it alone, It won't. Mankind's impact on the earth is far too powerful an inflluence on nature for that to happen and ignoring the fact that wildlife must be conserve and managed in the modern world isn't going to chance that. You seem to think that nature is somehow benige and in complete harmony. It isn't. Nature is savage, cruel and unforgiving. At least 4 times in the history of the world, long before man appeared, life on Earth was nearly wiped out completely by nature. In the most extreme case 90% of all spiecies on Earth went extinct. So don't believe for a minute nature is harmonious. Nature is chaotic and random. All of nature on this Earth will eventually be destroyed when the sun expands to it's red giant stage and so far, as far as we know, Man is the only creature capible of saving the spark that is life from being extiguished forever, so don't be so quick to dimiss your oun spicies. We are pretty amazing creatures. B)

 

I've read some hysterical posts on this forum, but this last one from you is a real grade A award winner, congratulations. You're actually arguing in FAVOUR of man's tampering with the environment and saying man does a better job than nature when left alone.

 

Yes in fact I do believe that nature would get along just fine if we left it alone. I think most intelligent people on this planet believe that. Am I wrong fellow forumites??

 

Any way you've got some pretty outlandish view points, which is part of what make the internet an interesting place.

 

So back now to the original idea of this thread, I would still hire James Steven Beverly, the comedic value of having you on set would alone be worth it.

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

...the smaller our "footprint", the happier Earth is...

 

Earth is a permanent uterus for humans. We need to treat it that way 'cause we'll never leave.

 

Blah, blah, blah,...I know. I think ELF is a terror group but we need to start thinking of the future, BIGTIME!

 

So....I agree with Boddington. :lol:

 

BUT, I'd hire people no matter political inclination. Unless it was a person who couldn't shut up. You know the types....People who let you know what "side" they're on unsolicited. It's the "unsolicited" part I can't stand.

[James Steven Beverly]

I've read some hysterical posts on this forum, but this last one from you is a real grade A award winner, congratulations. You're actually arguing in FAVOUR of man's tampering with the environment and saying man does a better job than nature when left alone.

 

Yes in fact I do believe that nature would get along just fine if we left it alone. I think most intelligent people on this planet believe that. Am I wrong fellow forumites??

 

Any way you've got some pretty outlandish view points, which is part of what make the internet an interesting place.

 

So back now to the original idea of this thread, I would still hire James Steven Beverly, the comedic value of having you on set would alone be worth it.

 

Man IS already tampering with the environment on a daily basis no matter how you look at it and has been sense he first started using tools, learned how to harness fire and domesticated animals for his oun use. Whether it be pumping greenhouse gases into the air, washing pesticides into the sea and ground or the flatulence from domesticated cattle eating away at the ozone layer, Man's influnce on the natural world is overwhelming. Our expantion and population growth has put enormous strains on natural resourses and led to massive desimation of woodlands, waterways and marshes leaving nowere for nature to go except umong us which is why coyotes and hawks can regularly be spotted in urban areas. We had better START managing nature while there's still some nature left to manage, because the modern world shows no sign of walking into the twilight any time soon and we need to find a way to co-exist with nature before we have paved it completely over. THAT"S REALITY.

 

Oh and thanks for saying you would hire me. I'm glad I could give you a chuckle. :D

Edited August 28, 2006 by James Steven Beverly

[Guest]

Unless it was a person who couldn't shut up. You know the types....People who let you know what "side" they're on unsolicited. It's the "unsolicited" part I can't stand.

 

Uh oh, that's me out then :D

[Evan Winter]

1.has been sense he first started using tools,

2. animals for his oun use.

3. Man's influnce on the natural world

4. Our expantion

5. led to massive desimation

6. leaving nowere for nature to go

7. except umong us

 

dear james,

 

i'm not trying to be a grammar/spelling hag and usually i don't care at all. however, i have to mention that i was actually taken out of your post, about halfway through, by all the errors. i found myself unintentionally reading the rest of your post looking for more errors and not for the posts communicative content.

 

i'm not saying that any of us need to be perfect in our internet writing (i'm sure a grammar/spelling dude could point out plenty of mistakes in my own post) but when the errors are as frequent as yours they detract from the power of what you're actually saying. i kid you not, i literally had to reread your post to take in the second half because i was so distracted by the spelling.

 

again, this is the internet and this is a forum so i guess spelling and grammar really aren't that important (i don't capitalize any of my letters for example) but it'll probably help you get your message across if the errors in your writing are reduced. whenever you're not sure of how to spell a word check www.dictionary.com (i do it all the time).

 

good posts by the way. i was intrigued by some of your points, pleasantly horrified at others, and even found myself nodding along in agreement at a few of them.

 

all the best,

 

evan

 

p.s. - if english is not your mother tongue then you're doing very well indeed and i'm a lot dumber than you because i can not communicate as well as you have in english in any other language.

 

i must add that i have failed to lead by example as i did not place an appropriate possesive apostrophe in the word 'posts' (end of first paragraph).

 

i bow my head in shame and i contemplate ritual suicide to avert said shame from afflicting my family and my unborn children.

 

evan

Edited August 29, 2006 by Evan Winter

[David Mullen ASC]

i must add that i have failed to lead by example as i did not place an appropriate possesive apostrophe in the word 'posts' (end of first paragraph).

 

That's missing the forest for the trees -- you don't even capitalize "I"...

 

Not that I care, but considering you prefer the eccentricity of not capitalizing "I", it seems odd to make a post about using correct spelling/grammar.

[Phil Rhodes]

Failure to capitalise "I" ensures you'll come off as a five-year-old.

 

On the environmental tack, there's moves afoot here to put RFID tags in everyone's trashcan and fine them for a failure to recycle. The UK recycles about 18% of waste, which is embarrassingly small (Norway makes 65%) and it's clearly possible to do vastly better, but of course the usual whining octogenerians are piping up an will probably scupper an extremely sensible measure.

 

In related news, you'd have thought that a planning consent application for a windfarm would have received an almost automatic go-ahead at the moment. Nevertheless, one has recently been denied in my area, largely due to the determined pigheadedness of a village full of sixty year olds who are secure in their right-wing politics on the basis that they'll be dead before any of it becomes a big problem.

 

Garh.

 

Phil

[Adam White]

you think thats bad, try getting permission to put up solar pannels. The new forest council have turned many peoples green exploits into costly deadends. Their reasons? apparently having roofs with different materials offends the "Visual environment".

 

true, the british do suck at recycling. Then again, there are still areas where recycle bins are still dumped in with the rest of the rubbish. Daily mail readers aside, it would be nice to see if we could step up to the levels of some other nations. . . .

[Evan Winter]

Hey David,

 

You're right. I am being hypocritical - criticizing someone for spelling/grammar when I purposefully don't capitalize. So, in the interest of clear communication, I will capitalize appropriately and attempt to have, if not perfect spelling/grammar, adequate spelling/grammar.

 

Evan

[Robert Hughes]

As for misspelling and bad grammar - I work days as a line manager and look at employment resumes for potential hires. I take spelling and grammar seriously, as I feel that someone who is sloppy and negligent in written communication will probably display those poor attributes in other areas of his work life. James' 7-point list would have hit my trash bin by point #2, and he would not have gotten a return call.

 

Everything you do makes a difference, positive or negative.

[Andy_Alderslade]

I take spelling and grammar seriously, as I feel that someone who is sloppy and negligent in written communication will probably display those poor attributes in other areas of his work life. James' 7-point list would have hit my trash bin by point #2, and he would not have gotten a return call.

 

Everything you do makes a difference, positive or negative.

 

I cannot help finding this a pretty pathetic line of thought, I have dyslexia and am often corrected on spelling and grammar. My grammar is actually very decent but often I confuse spellings or mis-spell words to look like others, giving the impression that I have bad grammar or have difficulties putting a point across.

 

People also assume that when someone's spelling is bad that they haven't checked through their work, when actually it is more than likely they have but their memory polishes over such mistakes.

 

It seems that society expects everyone to be good at everything. Why can't we just except that some people are good at somethings and not so great at others, and encourage people to concentrate on the things which they are good at. Not everyone is going to have excellent spelling and grammar skills, because in the end its a talent, but people who lack those skills may be extremly artistic, verbal, imaginitive, be able to comprehend 3-dimensional problems, good arthimic skills, teaching skills etc. I cannot help feeling that those 'pedents' who criticise others on the finer points are actually taking revenge for their own insecurities of being average at most things and great at none.

 

Remember many geniuses did have learning disabilities, Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, Winston Churchill even the UKs current prime-minister Tony Blair has dyslexia (though personaly I don't think he's so great.)

 

Its this archaic attitude which causes so many people with learning disabilities like myself to come so close to break-down during school and exams. I remember my GCSEs (when i was 15/16) with appsolute dread, yet when I finished my degree I was one percent short of a 1st and felt a hundred times more confident socially and in regards to my intelligence.

 

I find it impossible to comprehend that this issue is ever brought up on cinematography forum when so many excellent DPs, Gaffers, ACs, Grips, etc, have poor written skills.

 

Anyway I don't mean to rant or to offend by this, but as you can see I have personally suffered at this modern 'Pedent' culture we live in.

 

Surely its better to day something intelligent or wise or true badly than to say nothing perfectly.

[Brian Wells]

true, the british do suck at recycling.

Indianapolis is much worse. The city offers a generous trash pickup allowance of 10 containers per household, per week, free of charge. But, if you choose to recycle, you must pay a $10 weekly pickup fee. Hence, basically no-one recycles anything in my area.

 

Compare us to Chicago. They actually encourage recycling.

 

In Chicago, you will pay extra for more than 1 bag of trash pickup each week, but there is no limit on the amount you can recycle. Hence, lots of people recycle in Chicago. I wish more cities were like Chicago in this regard.

[Guest]

I find it impossible to comprehend that this issue is ever brought up on cinematography forum when so many excellent DPs, Gaffers, ACs, Grips, etc, have poor written skills.

 

I notice that as well, why is that?

 

I'm reviewing the flood of cover letters that come in with resumes for my PA position on offer. I have to say the writing skills of these recent college and university grads is beyond bad. Some of it is hilarious.

 

Needless to say they don't inspire me with confidence when they can't even use a spell checker. So for all the DPs, Gaffers, ACs, and Grips, out there who think it's ok to not be able to write a cohesive job cover letter, I'd think again.

[Dan Goulder]

Yah, I take afense to dat.

[Evan Winter]

Hey Andy,

 

I mentioned the spelling/grammar issue to the other poster because I had difficulty making it through his post and paying attention to his thoughts because of the frequency with which he made errors. I'm not trying to harp on the topic.

 

After all, we've all seen horrendous spelling and grammar on the internet. Clearly it's not the place to go if you're a grammar purist. I did think, however, it might help the poster get readers to focus on his content and not his form if he focused a little more on his spelling/grammar.

 

For example, David mentioned that it seemed hypocritical for me to critique a person's spelling/grammar when I refused to capitalize. I thought about this and said, 'hmmm, perhaps my lack of capitals is distracting to the reader' and now I have abandoned that affectation.

 

It should always be the goal of anyone who is communicating to communicate as clearly as possible (unless the goal is to purposefully be dense - James Joyce anyone?).

 

Also, I'm not sure why you feel DPs, Gaffers, Grips, et. al, have 'poor' written skills. I'd imagine the average DP/Gaffer/Grip has at least a high school education if not post secondary. That's more than enough to be able to communicate (written and orally) on a completely acceptable level.

 

Evan

 

p.s.

 

1. Cinematographer/videographer, it doesn't matter what you call yourself as long as you're comfortable taking the title.

2. I can't imagine why 10ths of a stop are important at all.

3. Thanks for the offer Jinna but I don't want to see your photos, no matter how sweet, young, and innocent you are.

4. In 50 years Hollywood's primary acquisition format for feature length films will be some form of digital (or at the very least it certainly won't be film) but that's not what is important. Today the primary acquisition format is film, tomorrow the primary acquisition format will be film, 1 year from now the primary acquisition format will be film. Moreover, the true skill and value of a DP has nothing to do with whether they capture their images on film or some digital doohickey anyway.

 

Did I miss anything?

Edited August 30, 2006 by Evan Winter

[Guest]

Hey Andy,

 

4. In 50 years Hollywood's primary acquisition format for feature length films will be some form of digital (or at the very least it certainly won't be film) but that's not what is important. Today the primary acquisition format is film, tomorrow the primary acquisition format will be film, 1 year from now the primary acquisition format will be film. Moreover, the true skill and value of a DP has nothing to do with whether they capture their images on film or some digital doohickey anyway.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Yes, the part about film being alive and well 50 years from now.

[Evan Winter]

Yes, the part about film being alive and well 50 years from now.

 

Oh yes,

 

I forgot...We in the filmmaking business are in the business of fiction and fantasy. :)

 

C'mon Richard, you seriously believe that in 50 years film will still be the primary acquisition format for feature films? You seriously believe that?? :blink:

 

Evan

Edited August 30, 2006 by Evan Winter

[Brad Grimmett]

C'mon Richard, you seriously believe that in 50 years film will still be the primary acquisition format for feature films? You seriously believe that?? :blink:

 

Evan

So I guess you don't? Video has been around for close to 50 years already and it hasn't taken over yet. I'm not saying HD doesn't have a place, but to think that the premier acquisition format will just die at the hands of video (or some other new format) is being a bit naive I think.

[Guest]

C'mon Richard, you seriously believe that in 50 years film will still be the primary acquisition format for feature films? You seriously believe that?? :blink:

 

Evan

 

I don't believe it, I KNOW it. The reasons have been stated on this forum a hundred times, I don't need to re-type them. Brad Grimmett agrees with me as well as you can see.

 

Any way I'll let you get back to: "Rock That poop"

[Evan Winter]

I don't believe it, I KNOW it. The reasons have been stated on this forum a hundred times, I don't need to re-type them. Brad Grimmett agrees with me as well as you can see.

 

Any way I'll let you get back to: "Rock That poop"

 

Wow, getting a little testy aren't we Richard? Is that supposed to be a slam against my work? Geez...speaking of people one would never want to work with...

 

Evan

[James Steven Beverly]

i bow my head in shame and i contemplate ritual suicide to avert said shame from afflicting my family and my unborn children.

 

evan

 

Good God, don't do that, it's a real bitch to get blood out of the carpet once you've finished dis-enbowelling yourself. For what it's worth, spelling has never been my strong point and it gets worse when I'm writing about something I believe in, which is bad because I AM a writer. Thank God for spellcheck because I'm a lot smarter than my spelling would indicate. :D I will TRY, and I do say TRY, to keep an eye out for spelling mistakes in my posts, but then agin, I ain't promisin' nothin'. B)

[Guest Danny]

50 years time, still projecting film.. hmm..

 

Look at how long digital has been around here compared to analogue. People compare digital to analogue as if it's a fair test. Digital has a LONG way to go yet, and look at the speed at which it's improving. I don't think analogue ever improved at that rate.

 

I'm all for digital personally. It IS the future. And give it 200 years time, we will be comparing digital to bio technology. And, sure enough, places like this forum will be full of people saying digital ALL the way, and how it's still the superior technology by far. It gives off signature marks, so crisp.. digital noise...

 

People just don't seem to get pattern here.

[Hal Smith]

I watched analog audio technology get creamed by digital in about ten years flat. In 1986 I seriously considered buying a Lucasfilm Sound Droid for a new audio production studio I was building and was considered a raving lunatic by management for even considering a digital sound creation system. So we bought $250,000 worth of multi-track this, big sound board that, this effect, that effect, everyone got a new 'fect.

 

All of which can be replaced by a PC running a prosumer sound program now.

 

I love film, I worship film. And the minute someone develops a 2K or 4k sensor with 10 stops of latitude film will be gone in the blink of an eye. I hate that, but that's basically what happened in the sound world the instant storage got cheap.

 

But sometimes fate can be kind, I just bid a contract for a large recording studio, the reason they came to me was they're analog freaks and they went looking for an engineer with a lot of gray hair. :)

[David Mullen ASC]

I'm amazed that anyone is going to get into a passionate argument about how movies will be made 50 years from now.

 

But I think it is completely reasonable to assume that digital will continue its growth into areas that traditionally use film.

[Evan Winter]

The thing that surprises me the most is that we're not talking (in this current line of discussion) about film disappearing in 1 or 2 or even 10 years. The current topic is based around the idea that in 50 years film will no longer be the dominant acquisition format for feature films.

 

To combat this notion we often hear about how film has ruled for the last 100 years. Well, give it another 50 (that's half the entire current lifetime of film). With the speed of technological advances, in 50 years, film will be inferior to whatever the leading non-analogue acquistion format is in every single possible way. Its only redeeming factors will be nostalgia.

 

The analogue/chemical formats simply can't improve as fast as the more malleable digital technologies. 50 years is a long time (again, roughly half the current lifetime of film itself). Just imagine, for a second, the resolution, color fidelity, latitude, etc. the cameras will have 50 years from now.

 

Right now I shoot only film. I imagine that I will continue to shoot only film for quite a long while but to think that film will not give way over time seems to be the truly naive perspective.

 

So, I'll ask a question to the film 'immortalists':

 

When will film, in your estimation, no longer be the dominant acquisition format for feature films. You've said it won't be 50 years. What about 100? 200? 1000? Or will film continue on for eternity as the preeminent method of image capture for feature films?

 

I'm honestly curious about your answers.

 

Evan