R.I.P Steve Irwin

[Guest]

That's my point, you wanted an argument. There isn't really much room in your comments for interpretation.It seems that you want to use someone elses (admittedly predictable) misfortune as a soapbox to let everyone know about your own superiority. You are of course entitled to whatever opinion you like of the man and his practices, and to broadcast it loudly as you wish. Hell, I agree that white people need to stop bothering animals ;) . But "I told you so's" are in poor taste, and ultimately seem more about you telling people how smart you are, not how dumb he was. A boxer is doing a job, a stuntman is doing a job, a firefighter is doing a job, Steve Irwin did his job. To me all of those occupations are for maniacs, but I don't gloat over my own superiority when I see Muhammad Ali on television and he can't speak. I admire the passion and dedication to a pursuit that was strong enough to cause him to put himself in danger. People have said "you take risks when driving a car" to which you replied that is was an ordinary, acceptable risk. Not after a 20 hour workday. That is an "idiotic risk" I bet a majority of people on this forum have taken, at some point. Can you compare Steve Irwin, habitual risk taker, to a firefighter ? Maybe not, but I don't believe it is valid to compare him to a drunk that teases an alligator and gets bitten, or worse. I'm not trying to insult you or anyone else who shares your feelings on this issue, there is already plenty of insulting going on with every subject on this forum more contentious than whether or not the sky is blue. Just having my say.

 

What does this mean?

 

"Hell, I agree that white people need to stop bothering animals "

 

White people?

 

R,

[Kent Balas]

Like I said now you're just being stupid. Obviously you've never heard of statistics, and obviously you're the type of person who would engage in any assinine activity.

 

R,

 

I quote from wikipedia

 

"Crocodile attacks of people are not uncommon in places where crocodiles are native. The Saltwater and Nile Crocodiles are the most dangerous, killing hundreds of people each year in parts of South-East Asia and Africa"

 

And a list of airline accidents in 2005;

 

Afghanistan Kam Air Boeing 737-200 air disaster (February 3, 2005) 104 killed

Russia Regional Airlines Antonov 24 air disaster (March 16, 2005) 28 killed

Democratic Republic of the Congo Victoria Air Antonov 12 air disaster (May 25, 2005) 27 killed

Equatorial Guinea Equatair Antonov 24 air disaster (July 16, 2005) 60 killed

Greece Helios Airways Boeing 737-300 air disaster (August 14, 2005) 121 killed

Venezuela West Caribbean Airways MD-80 air disaster (August 16, 2005) 160 killed

Peru TANS Boeing 737-200 air disaster (August 23, 2005) 40 killed

Indonesia Mandala Airlines Boeing 737-200 air disaster (September 5, 2005) 140 killed (including 39 on the ground)

Bellview Airlines Flight 210 (October 22, 2005) 117 killed

Iranian Air Force C-130 crash in Tehran (December 6, 2005) ~120 killed (including ~26 on the ground)

Nigeria Sosoliso Airlines DC-9-30 air disaster (December 10, 2005) 108 killed

Miami Chalk's Ocean Airways Grumman G-73T air disaster (December 19, 2005) 20 killed

Azerbaijan Airlines Antonov 140 air disaster (December 23, 2005) 23 killed

 

That totals 1068 in 2005. Thats only air accidents with more than 20 deaths. Funnily enough i've come across statistics once or twice. Going by statistics Steve Irwins death was a lot less likely than you dieing in a car accident tomorrow morning or you being murdered outside your home. I love any activity that gets the pulse racing, I don't live my life in fear of statistics like you. So get off your soap box mate, everyone loves steve irwin, he was about as unlucky as anyone will ever get and its a great tragedy he's gone.

[Guest]

I quote from wikipedia

 

"Crocodile attacks of people are not uncommon in places where crocodiles are native. The Saltwater and Nile Crocodiles are the most dangerous, killing hundreds of people each year in parts of South-East Asia and Africa"

 

And a list of airline accidents in 2005;

 

Afghanistan Kam Air Boeing 737-200 air disaster (February 3, 2005) 104 killed

Russia Regional Airlines Antonov 24 air disaster (March 16, 2005) 28 killed

Democratic Republic of the Congo Victoria Air Antonov 12 air disaster (May 25, 2005) 27 killed

Equatorial Guinea Equatair Antonov 24 air disaster (July 16, 2005) 60 killed

Greece Helios Airways Boeing 737-300 air disaster (August 14, 2005) 121 killed

Venezuela West Caribbean Airways MD-80 air disaster (August 16, 2005) 160 killed

Peru TANS Boeing 737-200 air disaster (August 23, 2005) 40 killed

Indonesia Mandala Airlines Boeing 737-200 air disaster (September 5, 2005) 140 killed (including 39 on the ground)

Bellview Airlines Flight 210 (October 22, 2005) 117 killed

Iranian Air Force C-130 crash in Tehran (December 6, 2005) ~120 killed (including ~26 on the ground)

Nigeria Sosoliso Airlines DC-9-30 air disaster (December 10, 2005) 108 killed

Miami Chalk's Ocean Airways Grumman G-73T air disaster (December 19, 2005) 20 killed

Azerbaijan Airlines Antonov 140 air disaster (December 23, 2005) 23 killed

 

That totals 1068 in 2005. Thats only air accidents with more than 20 deaths. Funnily enough i've come across statistics once or twice. Going by statistics Steve Irwins death was a lot less likely than you dieing in a car accident tomorrow morning or you being murdered outside your home. I love any activity that gets the pulse racing, I don't live my life in fear of statistics like you. So get off your soap box mate, everyone loves steve irwin, he was about as unlucky as anyone will ever get and its a great tragedy he's gone.

 

 

Definately one of the more hole filled arguments I've ever seen posted here.

 

First, you completely discount the number of air travellers per year and the number of flights world wide per year. There are millions of air travellers and thousands of flights around the globe. Start dividing your number of plane crash victims into the number the flights per year. Then maybe you'll start to clue in and see what I'm talking about.

 

I notice you avoid responding to many of my other points, did you even look at the CNN story about wildlife shows going to extremes in an effort to pump up ratings?

 

Want me off my soap box, come here and knock me off, mate.

 

R,

[Kent Balas]

Definately one of the more hole filled arguments I've ever seen posted here.

 

First, you completely discount the number of air travellers per year and the number of flights world wide per year. There are millions of air travellers and thousands of flights around the globe. Start dividing your number of plane crash victims into the number the flights per year. Then maybe you'll start to clue in and see what I'm talking about.

 

I notice you avoid responding to many of my other points, did you even look at the CNN story about wildlife shows going to extremes in an effort to pump up ratings?

 

Want me off my soap box, come here and knock me off, mate.

 

R,

 

Air travel is very safe, I agree, but you also must agree there's a lot of people in Asia and Africa living near rivers, death by crocodile attack is very rare. I don't watch CNN, but I imagine they also care about ratings? Or are they just over there for the love of it. There's no need to get upset Richard, just admit defeat, go home, wrap your children in cotton wool and watch them grow up to be boring pedantic worriers like yourself.

[Guest]

Air travel is very safe, I agree, but you also must agree there's a lot of people in Asia and Africa living near rivers, death by crocodile attack is very rare. I don't watch CNN, but I imagine they also care about ratings? Or are they just over there for the love of it. There's no need to get upset Richard, just admit defeat, go home, wrap your children in cotton wool and watch them grow up to be boring pedantic worriers like yourself.

 

When you are right there is no such thing as defeat. Just because a mental midget such as you can't see the forest for the trees, doesn't mean I'm in any way incorrect.

 

People who live in crocodile invested regions of the world are smart enough to not feed them by holding a fish in their mouths and having the croc snap it out. Again reasonable risk vs unreasonable, but let's not go there, the concept is above your intelligence.

 

Watch the CNN piece I posted the link to. It has nothing to do with the ratings on CNN.

 

I would rather my kids grow up with a father who is a pedantic worrier like me, vs a guy like you who would operate a welding torch with one hand while you hold your infant child in the other.

 

R,

[Kent Balas]

When you are right there is no such thing as defeat. Just because a mental midget such as you can't see the forest for the trees, doesn't mean I'm in any way incorrect.

 

People who live in crocodile invested regions of the world are smart enough to not feed them by holding a fish in their mouths and having the croc snap it out. Again reasonable risk vs unreasonable, but let's not go there, the concept is above your intelligence.

 

Watch the CNN piece I posted the link to. It has nothing to do with the ratings on CNN.

 

I would rather my kids grow up with a father who is a pedantic worrier like me, vs a guy like you who would operate a welding torch with one hand while you hold your infant child in the other.

 

R,

 

 

Lets not forget here Richard, Steve Irwin was killed by a stingray, not a crocodile. I believe when he was killed by said stingray he had all his fingers and all his toes. This would lead me to believe that Mr Irwin was able to safely feed a crocodile.

 

What we're talking about here is percieved threat, not actual. You percieve crocodiles to be dangerous because they have big teeth and look very scary. You hop in your car everyday, your used to it, you don't percieve it as a threat. Steve Irwin dealt with all sorts of animals everyday of his life, so to him getting close to crocodiles was a reasonable risk.

 

CNN just put stories on there to please you do they? I'm not disagreeing that nature shows use sensational tactics to garner ratings - CNN uses all sorts of misinformation to gain ratings. What I am denying is that Steve Irwin had it coming. Lets say there's been 50 deaths by stingray ever (that high). Consider the amount of diving done worldwide each year?

 

I know people with fathers like you, and they rebel or are 40 year old virgins. The world is a risky place Richard and no amount of skill or planning will prepare you for it, as Irwin's untimeley death demonstrates. When you are crushed by a falling 35mm Panavision studio camera I will be on here lamenting your lack of forethough and stupidity to be killed in such a way. I doubt your death would spark a discussion on here come to think of it.

[Thomas Fant]

What does this mean?

 

"Hell, I agree that white people need to stop bothering animals "

 

White people?

 

R,

 

I was (mis)qouting a joke hence that little thing at the end of the line. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley) The joke is about the typical victim, When Animals Attack!! being someone from a suburban, middle class, "white" background, the humorous observation being that those most removed from nature, danger or both in their daily lives are also typically the most enthusiastic for exposing themselves to it, even vicariously. Interesting that you chose to specifically respond to that line only. Maybe there is something wrong with my grammer that you could point out next.

[Guest]

I was (mis)qouting a joke hence that little thing at the end of the line. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley) The joke is about the typical victim, When Animals Attack!! being someone from a suburban, middle class, "white" background, the humorous observation being that those most removed from nature, danger or both in their daily lives are also typically the most enthusiastic for exposing themselves to it, even vicariously. Interesting that you chose to specifically respond to that line only. Maybe there is something wrong with my grammer that you could point out next.

 

You honestly expected me or any one else to figure all that out from you just saying...

 

"Hell, I agree that white people need to stop bothering animals "

 

Perhaps next time you could include the link to the source from Wikipedia, or where ever you are quoting from.

 

R,

 

 

Lets not forget here Richard, Steve Irwin was killed by a stingray, not a crocodile. I believe when he was killed by said stingray he had all his fingers and all his toes. This would lead me to believe that Mr Irwin was able to safely feed a crocodile.

 

What we're talking about here is percieved threat, not actual. You percieve crocodiles to be dangerous because they have big teeth and look very scary. You hop in your car everyday, your used to it, you don't percieve it as a threat. Steve Irwin dealt with all sorts of animals everyday of his life, so to him getting close to crocodiles was a reasonable risk.

 

CNN just put stories on there to please you do they? I'm not disagreeing that nature shows use sensational tactics to garner ratings - CNN uses all sorts of misinformation to gain ratings. What I am denying is that Steve Irwin had it coming. Lets say there's been 50 deaths by stingray ever (that high). Consider the amount of diving done worldwide each year?

 

I know people with fathers like you, and they rebel or are 40 year old virgins. The world is a risky place Richard and no amount of skill or planning will prepare you for it, as Irwin's untimeley death demonstrates. When you are crushed by a falling 35mm Panavision studio camera I will be on here lamenting your lack of forethough and stupidity to be killed in such a way. I doubt your death would spark a discussion on here come to think of it.

 

Again, we are on different pages with regard to risk.

 

I want to ask you directly, as I posted earlier: If he had been killed while hand feeding a crocodile would that change your position at all?

 

Or does it fall into the category of "job risk", same as a lumber jack being killed by a falling tree.

 

If my sons are 40 year old vigins I have no problem with that, the world can think what it likes, guess what don't care. A Panavision camera will never fall on me because I always use Arriflex. I doubt your death would receive any mention either.

 

R,

[Kent Balas]

You honestly expected me or any one else to figure all that out from you just saying...

 

"Hell, I agree that white people need to stop bothering animals "

 

Perhaps next time you could include the link to the source from Wikipedia, or where ever you are quoting from.

 

R,

Again, we are on different pages with regard to risk.

 

I want to ask you directly, as I posted earlier: If he had been killed while hand feeding a crocodile would that change your position at all?

 

Or does it fall into the category of "job risk", same as a lumber jack being killed by a falling tree.

 

If my sons are 40 year old vigins I have no problem with that, the world can think what it likes, guess what don't care. A Panavision camera will never fall on me because I always use Arriflex. I doubt your death would receive any mention either.

 

R,

 

We can go into all the 'what if's' in the world. eg. What if you wern't deluded. But lets not go there. What we can do is stick to facts, and the facts in this case are that Steve Irwin was killed by a stingray in a freak accident. There are roughly only 30 other recorded deaths by stingray (3 in Australia) ever. Steve Irwin was never seriously injured by a crocodile in all his years of baiting them.

 

I realise that my death would go unnoticed by cinematography.com, because unlike you I realise that I'm a fallible regular bloke. I'm not the type of person who critises people that get out there and do some good in the world, instead of bitching and moaning and carrying on like a little girl. CNN and North American media has warped your views so far that you've become an ineffectual mouse of a man who cannot accept risk is part of his everyday life.

[Daniel Smith]

I don't think this has anything to do with statistics or plane crashes. It's do with moral correctness.

[John Holland]

Your Canadian? why you so angry ? . BTW 70 thousand Indians die each year from snake bites ! John Holland London .

[Daniel Smith]

Your Canadian? why you so angry ? . BTW 70 thousand Indians die each year from snake bites ! John Holland London .

Ha, Croydon. I'm from Swanley. Small world eh. (Country more like.) B)

[Guest]

We can go into all the 'what if's' in the world. eg. What if you wern't deluded. But lets not go there. What we can do is stick to facts, and the facts in this case are that Steve Irwin was killed by a stingray in a freak accident. There are roughly only 30 other recorded deaths by stingray (3 in Australia) ever. Steve Irwin was never seriously injured by a crocodile in all his years of baiting them.

 

I realise that my death would go unnoticed by cinematography.com, because unlike you I realise that I'm a fallible regular bloke. I'm not the type of person who critises people that get out there and do some good in the world, instead of bitching and moaning and carrying on like a little girl. CNN and North American media has warped your views so far that you've become an ineffectual mouse of a man who cannot accept risk is part of his everyday life.

 

He was killed by a stingray yes, but if it wasn't a stingray it would have been a snake or croc at some point.

 

As for being a "mouse of a man", yeah right, I've lived larger than you have in 10 life times!!!

 

My guess is you haven't travelled much in this world beyond going down the street to get your paper.

 

I do take risks, I already said I'm a SCUBA diver and spent time filming white sharks. The difference is that in each activity I take the precautions, I don't do deep dives and I won't swim out of the cage with a white shark in the water.

 

Unlike Irwin, who would not even wear proper dive gear, as I pointed out ealier. And yes I know a wet suit will not stop a stingray barb. I'm refering more to his attitude toward procedures that people in the dive world do as a routine rule of safety.

 

You speak of Irwin as some sort of god, I never disliked him on a personal level and he wasn't in any way a bad person. There where a lot of Australians who didn't like him because they thought he reflected badly on Australia. I have friends from Australia who roll their eyes every time his name is mentioned.

 

R,

[John Holland]

Ha, Croydon. I'm from Swanley. Small world eh. (Country more like.) B)

hi Dan , think i have only even driven through Swanley , trying to find short cut to M20 from here . John Holland . Croydon [which is a dump ] i live about 5 miles south of it .

[Kent Balas]

He was killed by a stingray yes, but if it wasn't a stingray it would have been a snake or croc at some point.

 

As for being a "mouse of a man", yeah right, I've lived larger than you have in 10 life times!!!

 

My guess is you haven't travelled much in this world beyond going down the street to get your paper.

 

I do take risks, I already said I'm a SCUBA diver and spent time filming white sharks. The difference is that in each activity I take the precautions, I don't do deep dives and I won't swim out of the cage with a white shark in the water.

 

Unlike Irwin, who would not even wear proper dive gear, as I pointed out ealier. And yes I know a wet suit will not stop a stingray barb. I'm refering more to his attitude toward procedures that people in the dive world do as a routine rule of safety.

 

You speak of Irwin as some sort of god, I never disliked him on a personal level and he wasn't in any way a bad person. There where a lot of Australians who didn't like him because they thought he reflected badly on Australia. I have friends from Australia who roll their eyes every time his name is mentioned.

 

R,

 

 

Your guessing would be incorrect Richard, are you sick of being incorrect yet? I've travelled to every continent except north america and antarctica. I don't think Irwin is some sort of God, I think his public persona was slightly ridiculous, that doesn't mean he didn't do good things. You americans and canadians seem to lap it up anyway.

 

Why attack the man for dying in unfortunate circumstance, what would Freud say about your behaviour? Steve Irwins persona was just one aspect of Australia and I don't believe he reflected badly. Anyone that's not completely ignorant knows that Australia is one of the most multi cultural nations on earth and one man cannot reflect a nations identity. Just about every post on here has been in opposition to you. Just accept that your point of view is in the severe minority and we'll leave it at that.

[Daniel Smith]

hi Dan , think i have only even driven through Swanley , trying to find short cut to M20 from here . John Holland . Croydon [which is a dump ] i live about 5 miles south of it .

Yeh Swanleys pretty cack. (I live near Dejavu nightclub) I was in Croydon high sreet the other day actually picking up a sound board from Digital Village 24 (on the high street)

 

Don't feel obliged to say yes, but because we don't live so far away, if you're making any films soon I'd love to come and help out. (Even as a p.a.) If you want a list of experience I can send you some by e-mail or something.

 

Cheers.

[John Holland]

Cant say yes , but know where you are so who knows . John Holland .

[Daniel Smith]

Cant say yes , but know where you are so who knows . John Holland .

Ok cool thanks. (DP'd some stuff, AC'd a few bits e.t.c.)

[Guest]

Your guessing would be incorrect Richard, are you sick of being incorrect yet? I've travelled to every continent except north america and antarctica. I don't think Irwin is some sort of God, I think his public persona was slightly ridiculous, that doesn't mean he didn't do good things. You americans and canadians seem to lap it up anyway.

 

Why attack the man for dying in unfortunate circumstance, what would Freud say about your behaviour? Steve Irwins persona was just one aspect of Australia and I don't believe he reflected badly. Anyone that's not completely ignorant knows that Australia is one of the most multi cultural nations on earth and one man cannot reflect a nations identity. Just about every post on here has been in opposition to you. Just accept that your point of view is in the severe minority and we'll leave it at that.

 

Ok so I'm ahead of you in the continent arena, and yes my list includes Antarctica.

 

My comments about what Australians thought of Steve Irwin is simply what my friends say about him.

 

As for having the minority opinion, oh great logic, I guess the anti-slavery people that lived in the US south during the 1800s should have just shut up since they where in the minority. Perhaps Australians should keep treating the Aboriginals the way you did in the 1800s as well, I'm sure those opposed to such treatment where in the minority back then as well.

 

R,

 

PS: The question is not what would Freud say about my behaviour, it's what would Freud say about Steve Irwin's behaviour. Now that would be interesting.

 

I know what Darwin would have said about Irwin's behaviour.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Who cares what Darwin would say...Darwin is dead. And this thread should be closed, I mean, this is getting to be about character attacks and serves no intellectually stimulating purpose anymore. Facts are:

 

Richard is the minority who feels he is right, but sadly fact is determined by what is universally accepted, not what is "right" according to Richard.

 

Kent is getting lame because he is bringing up arguments about who has went to more continents which is completely irrelevent. I could have went to the moon and still be wrong about this issue.

 

Maybe this forum should get back to making films like we all like to do. Go to your corners fellows.

[Guest]

Richard is the minority who feels he is right, but sadly fact is determined by what is universally accepted, not what is "right" according to Richard.

 

I'm trying to interpret what you're saying here exactly?

 

I'm NOT saying fact is determined by what is universally accepted. Which is why I use the example of slavery, it was universally accepted in the US south in the 1800s, but it was NOT right.

 

So like wise, if I am in the minority opinion here, it makes no impact on me knowing that my position is the correct one.

 

R,

[Matthew W. Phillips]

I'm trying to interpret what you're saying here exactly?

 

I'm NOT saying fact is determined by what is universally accepted. Which is why I use the example of slavery, it was universally accepted in the US south in the 1800s, but it was NOT right.

 

So like wise, if I am in the minority opinion here, it makes no impact on me knowing that my position is the correct one.

 

R,

 

With all due respect Richard, your comments about what is right and wrong are largely based on ethnocentricism. In the USA, we often speak about how wrong slavery was, yet it's funny how much everyone enjoys a nation that was largely built on slavery. If slavery is totally wrong, why is America considered such a great nation?

 

When I was in college, I actually heard a young Christian black woman who said that she priased God that the slavery ordeal happened because 1) It led her people away from the pagan rituals which she abhorred being that she was a Christian and 2) she can now enjoy freedom and opportunity that she never could have thought possible if she were stil in her ancestor's homeland.

 

Point being: Right and wrong are not always clearly defined and you cant be shortsighted about things. Some of the best things in this world today required grave sacrafice from someone.

[Guest]

With all due respect Richard, your comments about what is right and wrong are largely based on ethnocentricism. In the USA, we often speak about how wrong slavery was, yet it's funny how much everyone enjoys a nation that was largely built on slavery. If slavery is totally wrong, why is America considered such a great nation?

 

When I was in college, I actually heard a young Christian black woman who said that she priased God that the slavery ordeal happened because 1) It led her people away from the pagan rituals which she abhorred being that she was a Christian and 2) she can now enjoy freedom and opportunity that she never could have thought possible if she were stil in her ancestor's homeland.

 

Point being: Right and wrong are not always clearly defined and you cant be shortsighted about things. Some of the best things in this world today required grave sacrafice from someone.

 

Oh boy, oh boy, I won't even touch your response with a 10ft pole, I know when to say when.

 

I'll just leave you to the wolves and let them eat you alive.

 

You want to defend slavery, it's your head.

 

Bye.

 

R,

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

I know what you're point is...

 

My parents met in a car accident that killed two human beings. I'm glad they're dead. Now I can live.

 

Just kidding, of course. :lol:

 

There are situations like this all over the world, I'm affraid. If 6 million Jews weren't murdered by Nazis, Roman Polanski might not be a famous filmmaker. Thanks, Hitler!

 

Actually, I'd like to take this oppertunity to thank Hitler for the giant diaspora which brought artist to many western countries, for the pain and anguish, the true depression of human emoitions which can only spawn great art.

 

Thanks, Hitler! Without your evil the world be that much less enlightened.

 

Ok, I'll stop. I'm just BSing anyway. I don't think you are defending slavery....If we had a chance to go back in time and change the "BIG" wrongs of human history, it is a probable chance that things may be worse. If you can imagine that...horrible to think of.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

I am not defending slavery, I am pointing out the hypocrisy of self righteous individuals who put down the means but revel in the ends.

 

Just like the Croc hunter himself. People want to call him crazy and an idiot but many enjoyed sitting down and watching the "idiot" work.

Edited September 6, 2006 by Matthew W. Phillips