New 2K Cameras released!

[Jason Rodriguez]

2K Digital Cinema Camera Streamlines Movie and HD production

 

Silicon Imaging and CineForm team to shoot, edit and encode using Intel® Core? 2 Duo Processors

 

Hollywood, CA, November 1, 2006 ?Silicon Imaging, with help from CineForm® and Intel Corporation, today unleashed a 2K Digital Cinema camera system set to revolutionize movie and HD production. The Silicon Imaging SI-2K will shoot footage directly to disk, at either 1920x1080P HD or 2048x1152 cinema resolutions, which can be instantly edited using CineForm?s Prospect 2K? real-time visualization and colorization software running on motherboards integrated into the camera or on laptop computers powered by Intel® Core? 2 Duo processors. Afterwards finished projects can be directly encoded for theatrical distribution to digital cinemas or on-demand Internet download.

 

"The transition to digital cinematography started when George Lucas first shot 'Star Wars: Episode II' in HD," states Ari Presler, Silicon Imaging CEO. ?Today, we have completely eliminated the need for film or tape and now offer the ability to shoot at even higher resolutions than HD, edit while each shot is taken, and have a production ready for distribution within weeks instead of months.?

 

The Silicon Imaging SI-2K is the first 2/3? digital cinema camera with 10-bit CineForm RAW? and 12-bit uncompressed 2K direct-to-disk recording. It offers unprecedented image quality, over 10 f-stop dynamic range, a touch-screen interface and IT-friendly connectivity. It is also the first to deliver in-context 3D color-corrected ?look? visualization and a complete raw post-production workflow.

 

Unlike modern HD cameras, which develop and compress colorized imagery inside the camera, the SI-2K streams images as uncompressed raw ?digital negatives? over a standard gigabit Ethernet connection. An Intel Core 2 Duo processor-based laptop computer , located up to 300 feet away, processes the digital negatives, where they are non-destructively developed and colorized for preview, using the cinematographer's desired "look" for the scene.

 

The digital negatives and "look" metadata are simultaneously recorded to a 2.5? notebook hard drive using the CineForm RAW? visually perfect codec. Up to 4-hours of continuous footage are captured on a single 160GB notebook drive; this is the equivalent of 14-reels of 35mm film which has an associated cost exceeding $25,000 for materials and processing.

 

?The Silicon Imaging camera is truly amazing? states Cinematographer Geoff Boyle. ?The SI-2K MINI remote camera head is small enough to be placed directly in a scene for point-of-view shots, used on robotic arms for model photography or incorporate two side-by-side for stereo 3-D. We used it on ?Mutant Chronicles?, a Sci-Fi feature with over 1500 visual effect shots. We shot flames and explosions using the 72fps slow motion mode and the recordings display smooth tonal gradations and natural colors. Finally, the director can immediately see full-resolution instant replays, without having to wait for film dailies or color correction."

 

CineForm?s Prospect 2K software, optionally bundled with the SI-2K, provides real-time, multi-stream editing of CineForm RAW files with look metadata using Adobe Production Studio, and supports both Windows AVI and Apple QuickTime formats. Further details on MacOS workflow including Final Cut Pro will be disclosed in the coming weeks.

 

?Together we are enabling a major paradigm shift in the entertainment industry for the way films are shot and edited," states David Taylor, CineForm CEO. ?Our combined efforts allow CineForm RAW recording and Prospect 2K editing to retain the many benefits of shooting raw, including increased visual fidelity, while reducing costs during both production and post, and encouraging faster project completion.?

 

?With the power of multi-core ready application running on dual core Intel Core 2 Duo processors, Silicon Imaging and CineForm have streamlined the digital high resolution movie-making workflowD,? said Elliot Garbus, general manager of the Global Developer Relations Division, Intel Corporation. ?The Silicon Imaging and CineForm solution promises cost and time saving benefits for cinematographers and directors.?

 

The SI-2K DVR with an embedded Intel Core 2 Duo processor and hot-swap drive cartridge system plus the removable MINI camera head is $20,000 or bundled with Prospect-2K for $22,000; with estimated shipment in January. The SI-2K MINI is $12,500 and shipping in December.

 

About Silicon Imaging

 

Silicon Imaging, Inc. is a leader in IT-centric high-definition digital camera and RAW workflow solutions. Silicon Imaging?s products incorporate disruptive technologies to deliver a new generation of products outperforming traditional HD cameras while increasing flexibility and lowering cost. Please visit: www.siliconimaging.com.

 

About CineForm

 

CineForm, Inc., develops software products for use by media professionals in high-resolution acquisition and post-production applications. Powered by CineForm Intermediate, CineForm's acclaimed products provide unmatched visual quality and real-time performance ? without the need for specialized hardware ? while enabling an online digital intermediate workflow that runs on affordable desktop PCs. Please visit: www.CineForm.com.

[Chad Stockfleth]

As Red is still a myth, this is the camera I really want to play with!

[John Holland]

I Second that. John Holland ,London.

[Adam Paul]

Now that RED is closer to become a reality it's hard to say this camera is more attractive. I mean it has a smaller sensor, lower resolution, less frame rates and costs more? What am I missing here? How is this camera being marketed? Who will pay more for less?

I think after RED ships unless they either low their price considerably or catch up they won't be doing much business. RED has like what, 3000 reservations? The movie Wanted is using it and even Peter Jackson tried it and liked it with rumors of him maybe doing his next project with it.

I just don?t see how these guys can compete unless they are marketing it to a totally different market which is fully unknown to me.

Also, it seems they are trying to market it as a cinema tool, but with a 2/3" sensor? That's so late 90's and doesn't make much sense when everybody is going 35mm size.

Anybody knows their marketing strategy?

Edited June 15, 2007 by Adam Paul

[Daniel Sheehy]

Anybody knows their marketing strategy?

Getting to the market first seems to be a pretty good strategy. ;)

Releasing in December... whoever, RED or SI, can get customer delivery first, will have taken a major advantage over the competition. The professional filmaker is always going to be happier to consider a camera that is actually out there, over one that is still in the pipeline.

[Brian Drysdale]

For a lot of HD television 2/3" 2K is just fine. In Europe Super 16 is a lot more common than 35mm, so it fits in there. Certainly for documentaries 2/3" makes more sense than 35mm.

 

These cameras will give different options and the pricing is pretty similar given the cost of kitting the RED to a shooting configuration. I'll be interested to see the final viewfinder options on the SI 2K and how the ergonomics compare.

 

The SI 2k also has the advantage of having a removable camera head (SI Mini).

[Adam Paul]

The SI 2k also has the advantage of having a removable camera head (SI Mini).

 

 

That's the ONLY thing that can be considered an advantage at all, for those who need it.

I can't see any TV series or episodic drama using a converted "security" camera to shoot their stuff. News wouldn't either. They would probably just go with the normal stuff like F900 or the new F23. Price is not a concern for them, just for the little guy, but the little guy is most likely buying RED. I don't think this camera lands itself well to documentary where people would most likely shoot tape and not have a cumbersome computer with lens. The more I think the more I see no future for this camera. It would have been great if it was out 2 years ago though.

[Brian Drysdale]

That's the ONLY thing that can be considered an advantage at all, for those who need it.

I can't see any TV series or episodic drama using a converted "security" camera to shoot their stuff. News wouldn't either. They would probably just go with the normal stuff like F900 or the new F23. Price is not a concern for them, just for the little guy, but the little guy is most likely buying RED. I don't think this camera lands itself well to documentary where people would most likely shoot tape and not have a cumbersome computer with lens. The more I think the more I see no future for this camera. It would have been great if it was out 2 years ago though.

 

Other than being 2k the sensor in the SI has a spec similar to the one in the RED, so it's way beyond a converted "security camera". You seem to be way out of date, the SI looks extremely like a camera and it could actually be a bit smaller than the RED. Bear in mind that the RED is also basically a computer with a lens attached.

 

People shoot documentaries with P2. Interesting to see how the SI 2K shows against the HDCAM F900, the Mini seemed to hold up well against a Viper on one feature film when shooting FX shots.

 

The important thing is that there are a number of camera options in the coming period. People will make decisions on a number of factors, including workflow and ergonomics. Many people also have 16mm lenses, so they might want to use those. Time will reveal how these new cameras fit in over the next few years, however, the "little guy" will have great tool using either camera. Certainly the "big guys" seem to be respecting both of these cameras.

[Adam Paul]

These cameras will give different options and the pricing is pretty similar given the cost of kitting the RED to a shooting configuration.

 

Actually if you want to bring it closer to RED you need to add an extra $4,000 for a clumsy 35mm adapter, another throw back to the late 90's. The Silicon camera alone costs $23,500.

RED basic package with camera, recording media is $18400.

Much more for considerably less.

[Brian Drysdale]

Actually if you want to bring it closer to RED you need to add an extra $4,000 for a clumsy 35mm adapter, another throw back to the late 90's. The Silicon camera alone costs $23,500.

RED basic package with camera, recording media is $18400.

Much more for considerably less.

 

Only if a shallow, wide aperture, 35mm DOF is important, for many productions this is more of a problem than an advantage. Again, people will make decisions on a number of factors, price is only one. If you want a cheaper camera you can get a Mini and a laptop for less than the RED basic package. Certainly, the shooting RED kit that most productions will require will cost more than your basic package.

 

You seem to be losing the point that having the choice is important.

[Gary McClurg]

Actually if you want to bring it closer to RED you need to add an extra $4,000 for a clumsy 35mm adapter, another throw back to the late 90's. The Silicon camera alone costs $23,500.

RED basic package with camera, recording media is $18400.

Much more for considerably less.

 

 

I find it funny that you call a P & S adapter a clumsy 35mm adapter... when many high end productions use it every day... you can hardly find a used one because of the demand...

 

My problem with the SI2K camera is that you have to go through many steps to get it into FCP... that I do give kudos to the Red for doing that... they keep saying that Cineform is going to work with FCP... but it needs to be now... not still coming...

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

My problem with SI is that their attitude seems to be: you will use our camera, our compression system, our post workflow on the software we specify in exactly the way we specify.

 

No, I won't.

 

Just - for the umpteenth time - give me an AVI or a DPX sequence. Sigh.

 

Phil

[Mitch Gross]

Face it kids, soon enough ALL cameras will be a sensor with a computer attached.

[Guest]

"Today, we have completely eliminated the need for film or tape...."

 

No need for film? Wow that's amazing where do I sign up?

 

R,

[Guest glen]

did they finally release something? SI products havebeen essentially vaporware.

 

i'm talking basler about getting my own "sensor" and building my own system. separating the sensor from the raid is the way to go, i just don't like the compression. basler or dalsa 4k sensor CL comverted to dual GigE over fiber to beefy computer. i don't need hours to record but must be fast enough to keep up.

 

i'll worry about post later. i have monster server to number crunch. with multi-mode fiber you can put the sensor about 500meters away so you can shots you never would have with a bulky camera.

[Mitch Gross]

How can you call a camera that dozens have held and numerous paying customers have used a vaporware product? How do you define your terms? The new design for the complete camera system is supposed to be available for sale in a few weeks. Hardly vaporware.

[David Mullen ASC]

"glen" you need to go to My Controls and edit your Display Name to a real first and last name, as per the forum rules listed when you registered on this site. Thanks.

[Jason Rodriguez]

Hi Glen,

 

The cameras are not vaporware . . . the MINI is shipping right now, and the SI-2K will be out in limited numbers next month (i.e., the first production run is already sold). We've got a number of people shooting and demoing the cameras right now. It might not be a couple thousand people at this point, but the users are out there. A lot of people though are waiting for the SI-2K.

 

You can call Steve Nordhauser at (518) 279-9098 or use our contact page on our website (www.si-2k.com) to order a camera. If you want a SI-2K though (not the MINI), it maybe be around late August, since again, the first production run is already sold, and it takes around 4 weeks to machine, assemble, and test a complete camera system from the start of the production run. A

[Brian Drysdale]

What's the current situation regarding AVID?

 

I know you're beta testing FCP, but many established editors use AVID, so being able to use their NLE would be really handy.

[Nate Downes]

Face it kids, soon enough ALL cameras will be a sensor with a computer attached.

 

I had a sales rep from Konica Minolta tell me that 3 years ago.

 

I get the feeling that film will never dissapear, becoming more a botique/artistic flavor over time.

Edited June 22, 2007 by Nate Downes

[Mitch Gross]

I had a sales rep from Konica Minolta tell me that 3 years ago.

 

I get the feeling that film will never dissapear, becoming more a botique/artistic flavor over time.

Actually I was referring to the functionality of video cameras. Soon they will all be data cameras, which means semsor heads attached to computers. It is the way of the world and frankly that's a good thing in my book, even on the top, top end.

[Jason Rodriguez]

What's the current situation regarding AVID?

 

Well, for right now, they don't support third-party codecs, end of story. So that means transcoding from our RAW files into a native AVID format.

 

The good news for QT support is that your AVID should be capable of at least ingesting the footage into something like DNxHD, but after that conversion, you are going to loose access to the RAW data . . . that's just a fact of life with AVID right now.

[Nate Downes]

Actually I was referring to the functionality of video cameras. Soon they will all be data cameras, which means semsor heads attached to computers. It is the way of the world and frankly that's a good thing in my book, even on the top, top end.

Ok, makes more sence now.

 

And it's funny how things go full circle. The first broadcast cameras were nothing other than sensor heads, dumping to a recording device or straight to broadcast.

[Adam Thompson]

Actually if you want to bring it closer to RED you need to add an extra $4,000 for a clumsy 35mm adapter, another throw back to the late 90's. The Silicon camera alone costs $23,500.

RED basic package with camera, recording media is $18400.

Much more for considerably less.

 

The SI cam is probably, in the long run, better for indie buyers and TV/doc's than a RED is. The big 4K 35mm sensor on the RED is really more of a novelty right now it seems to me. You'll find that using 35mm lenses isn't as easy as your average HDV graduate would like. Also, the wide sweeping misunderstanding of how DOF works on given lenses and formats is way off because of marketing on RED's and its fan's part. Lets say you get your RED with a big 35mm lens out and you shoot a shot at T5.6. Shoot the same shot with a similar field of view S16mm lens on the SI at, say a T1.8 and your DOF would probably be shallower on the SI. (just an example to get the idea across, correct me if need be).

 

Watch Leaving Las Vegas. Do you like their control of focus? That entire film was shot on older generation 16mm film with S16mm lenses from the 90's. Watch 28 Weeks Later. What about the TV police drama, The Sheild, or Friday Night Lights? The film, The Last King of Scotland? The Squid and the Whale? Do you think any of them had good DOF control? I think so, without a doubt... all S16mm dude.

 

The point is that you often do not want really shallow DOF and anyway it's not that big a deal like fans think it is. Watch movies and start paying attention to how deep it usually really is. So many 35mm movies actually have deep DOF through out. I was just watching The Bridges of Madison County the other night (ok, laugh) but it is a great film and really pulls you into its environment. I noticed, after a while, that most of it was really deep DOF. Do you think it looks bad? It's just not that big a deal and on a smaller budget, where you have less lighting or sometimes no lights, the last thing you want to have to do is open medium or long 35mm lens all the way without plenty of set up time and good focus pulling abilities.

 

Also from what I read the SI has a 7" touch screen? How cool is that? It records to commonly available hard drives? Nice. Also, you can use the much cheaper yet very high quaility S16mm lenses out there. Yes you can do that on the RED too which will probably be the case anyway. The body looks a lot more practical on the SI. And it's 2K capable which is where 99% of cinema projection is going and it will be there for a long, long time. Oh and indie films have a 99+% chance of not even being shown in the theater. So Lucas shot that Star Wars movie on an old, first gen. Sony HD cam. The SI is a new gen. CMOS 2K RAW cam. That isn't good enough for you?

 

I'll be available with my Aaton for a long time it looks like as cheap film alternatives may actually become a more sought after medium than anyone thinks... all these new cams will start to look the same, just as HD TV shows are starting to.

[jan von krogh]

The big 4K 35mm sensor on the RED is really more of a novelty right now it seems to me. You'll find that using 35mm lenses isn't as easy as your average HDV graduate would like. Also, the wide sweeping misunderstanding of how DOF works on given lenses and formats is way off because of marketing on RED's and its fan's part. Lets say you get your RED with a big 35mm lens out and you shoot a shot at T5.6. Shoot the same shot with a similar field of view S16mm lens on the SI at, say a T1.8 and your DOF would probably be shallower on the SI. (just an example to get the idea across, correct me if need be).

Sorry, Yes, you need to be corrected here.

Red shoots at s35, s16 and 2/3 sensorsize. So you can actually use the formats you want.

The sensorsize can be selected. s16 is 2k, 2/3 1080p and s35k 4k and 2540p.

 

However, regarding the S:I. camera - it think its a great product.

And, as i am owning sony hdcam, old arri 35mm and have red on order, i think its interesting to know that i am considering to buy a SI.

Especially the mini is really interesting.

 

That said, i think there are other unique strenghts in the SI concept.

The integration of Iridias Speedgrade and Aspect Ration are excellent feature.

Also the 72fps overcranking is a great feature.