Jay Taylor Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 This cinematographer uses them creatively and rents out his kits, obviously he's using one with a bayonette mount and perhaps using zeis lenses via a PL mount adapter. http://www.filmspace.net/showreel.htm (some examples) http://www.filmspace.net/EQUIPMENT2.htm The stuff on his site looks great! Of course, I think he's using higher end zeiss lenses, but a bolex is involved! That at least shows me that professional results are possible. Well, after reading everyone's comments, I think I'll go for a bolex. If nothing else, it'll be a good start to learning this stuff. I appreciate all of your help. Sounds like you guys really know your stuff! I'll have many more questions for ya later on once I start filming. THANKS AGAIN! Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernhard Zitz Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Pressumably you have to increase the f-stop by how much light is absorbed by the prism (is it 1/2 a stop, i can't quite remember?) over the actuall reading. I wasn't talking about the lightloss of the prism, but about the aberations that happen when you put short lenses on bolex rx http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/bolex/truth.html Why would you put a Superspeed 9.5mm on a Bolex RX while a 10mm switar rx would produce better pictures? (at least until f4), I never tried it, that's what others say... the bolex manual says not to use lenses under 50mm that are not designed for RX what is the advantage of a bolex RX with PL-mount??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Alessandro Machi Posted November 13, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted November 13, 2006 The stuff on his site looks great! Of course, I think he's using higher end zeiss lenses, but a bolex is involved! That at least shows me that professional results are possible. Well, after reading everyone's comments, I think I'll go for a bolex. If nothing else, it'll be a good start to learning this stuff. I appreciate all of your help. Sounds like you guys really know your stuff! I'll have many more questions for ya later on once I start filming. THANKS AGAIN! Jay If Bolex Switzerland has time to talk, talk to them before buying a used Bolex. Some Bolex models can be upgraded and others cannot, or not as easily. While Bolex Switzerland would probably prefer you buy a brand spanking new camera from them, at the very least buy a Bolex that offers the most upgrade possibilities. Orientable Viewfinder, easily mountable motor for sync (best for music videos since camera noise is less relevant), larger magazine loads, single frame and time-lapse options should all be considered as well. Bolexs may have one of the fastest shutters speeds for doing Single frame, which can ensure a sharper overall picture. Ask Bolex Switzerland to rank the type of Bolex's that are available and which models are considered "dead end" and which offer the most upgrade options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Glenn Brady Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I always wondered how you do this, don't you have to compensate the correction that switars rx have for the prism-issue with lenses shorter than 50mm? Stop down to f4 or more? The following site has a thorough explanation of the optical properties of the Bolex reflex viewfinder:Bolex Reflex System Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan von krogh Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) From what i've been told '24' flirted with HD and then returned to 35mm. It seems that the 'big' shows still arn't taking HD seriously, with the exception of the odd Sci-Fictition. off topic from the bolex we were, just as annotation/sidenote. very partial, the full list is ~4x times the size, but i don´t want to put so much hdcam into the bolex thread.... shot on HDCAM ABC According to Jim Conviction George Lopez Hope and Faith Hot Properties Rodney The Nightstalker What About Brian? CBS Still Standing Yes Dear Fox (Fall) Arrested Development The Bernie Mac Show The War At Home Fox (Jan 06) The Bernie Mac Show The Loop The War At Home FX Rescue Me NBC Joey The Office Sci Fi Channel Andromeda Stargate Battlestar Galactica (one of my all time favorites btw) Showtime Huff The Fat Actress The L Word UPN Network All of Us Cuts Eve Girlfriends Half and Half Love Inc. One on One WB Network Just Legal Living with Fran Reba Related Twins What I Like About You Supernatural BBC The Chase Bleak House The green grass RAI Coast Guard Edited November 14, 2006 by jan von krogh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny N Suleimanagich Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Those shows are generally shot on 35mm, not S16... and all things considered, an HD transfer is going to look better than SD if they are both 10-bit with the same color sampling and equally skilled/proficient colorists. To answer your other question, a well-maintained Bolex with clean Switars gives quite good images as far as regular 16 goes. actually, its very common shows are shot on S16 rather than 35mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Alderslade Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 very partial, the full list is ~4x times the size, but i don´t want to put so much hdcam into the bolex thread.... Well as said, it referred to 'big' US shows, which were flirting but largely ignoring HD. Many of the examples you have given (majority of which are studio based sitcoms) would be shot on video pre-HD, so its logical that they have now upgraded to HD. BBC's Bleak House, as was Torchwood, were shot on HD but as these show are made on a tiny budget compared with equivelent US show like Smallville or 24, shooting on HD video is hardly supprising. Plus I suspect many of the shows on the list like Andromeda and Stargate are shot on 35mm and then mastered on HDCAM, however I admit I could be misinformed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Anthony Vale Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 what is the advantage of a bolex RX with PL-mount??? A union operator and assisstant won't touch anything with a C-mount? actually, its very common shows are shot on S16 rather than 35mm The big network shows are still 35mm, though a number are 3-perf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Alessandro Machi Posted November 20, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted November 20, 2006 off topic from the bolex we were, just as annotation/sidenote.very partial, the full list is ~4x times the size, but i don´t want to put so much hdcam into the bolex thread.... shot on HDCAM ABC According to Jim Conviction George Lopez Hope and Faith Hot Properties Rodney The Nightstalker What About Brian? CBS Still Standing Yes Dear Fox (Fall) Arrested Development The Bernie Mac Show The War At Home Fox (Jan 06) The Bernie Mac Show The Loop The War At Home FX Rescue Me NBC Joey The Office Sci Fi Channel Andromeda Stargate Battlestar Galactica (one of my all time favorites btw) Showtime Huff The Fat Actress The L Word UPN Network All of Us Cuts Eve Girlfriends Half and Half Love Inc. One on One WB Network Just Legal Living with Fran Reba Related Twins What I Like About You Supernatural BBC The Chase Bleak House The green grass RAI Coast Guard Are you sure about your list? "The Office" is film, no? I haven't seen "Joey" in a while, but I thought that was film as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Anthony Vale Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Are you sure about your list? "The Office" is film, no? I haven't seen "Joey" in a while, but I thought that was film as well. 'The Office' is definitely HD. None of us has seen 'Joey' in awhile. Another thing we have to give thanks for this Thursday. A show where the main character is a moron is tough to take, but two is an abomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Cooper Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Tim Carroll, I viewed your short film containing the interior footage shot with the Bolex EBM. I enjoyed the film! The lenses on the Bolex gave some nice images, especially in the close ups. Though did you use Switars or some other C mount lenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Mennle Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Forget about the switars, get a PL mount adapter for Bolex bayonet and use PL lenses. It works fine. In my opinion, today the Bolex is a specialist camera for timelapse with Arri SRs being so reasonably priced. I mean, if you can´t afford to buy or rent a simple Arri or Aaton kit, you can´t afford 16mm. Film, lab, HD telecine, that´s the expensive stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain LeTourneau Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/bolex/truth.html Why would you put a Superspeed 9.5mm on a Bolex RX while a 10mm switar rx would produce better pictures? (at least until f4), I never tried it, that's what others say... the bolex manual says not to use lenses under 50mm that are not designed for RX what is the advantage of a bolex RX with PL-mount??? The Jury is still out on the supposed prism aberrations. As I understand it "RX" was mean to distinguish between standard C mount and Bolex C mount, that is with a prism, or without. RX - FFD 20.76 C - FFD 17.526 Many folks use Arri B and PL primes (with adapters) on the Bolex EBM, SBM, EL cameras. -Alain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Anthony Vale Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) As I understand it "RX" was mean to distinguish between standard C mount and Bolex C mount, that is with a prism, or without. RX - FFD 20.76 C - FFD 17.526 As I pointed out on another thread, since the glass in the prism has a different refractive index than air, it streches out the optical path. This is the same reason why a camera or lens with a filter behind the lens has to be recollimated. One can't measure the ffd with the prism in place, thus it has to be removed. The prism itself compensates for those extra 3.244mm. The lens doesn't have to be recollimated for that. Plus that would be quite a stack of shims. The different FFDs is a red herring. But if the prism is stretching the optical path, it's probably creating other abberations which the lens needs to be corrected for. It's not so much that the jury is out, but apparently the verdict is being appealed. Edited February 1, 2007 by Leo Anthony Vale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain LeTourneau Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 The different FFDs is a red herring. But if the prism is stretching the optical path, it's probably creating other abberations which the lens needs to be corrected for. It's not so much that the jury is out, but apparently the verdict is being appealed. Many people have sited the Couzin article, but how many have tested it for themselves? I've heard from a few folks who stated they shot wider than f4 on B and PL mt lenses without any distortion. -Alain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Anthony Vale Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Many people have sited the Couzin article, but how many have tested it for themselves? I've heard from afew folks who stated they shot wider than f4 on B and PL mt lenses without any distortion. However, that does imply that the difference between Rx- and C-mounts has nothing to do with focus shifts and the need to recollimate the lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Kisilyov Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 For starters, if I decide on a Bolex, I'd probably get one from JK Camera. So it'd already be converted to super16. And I've already been looking into crystal syncs, so I understand all that. There's two sides to my camera choice, because on the one hand, I've got live action. On the other, animation. I know the Bolex works well with animation motors. With my live action stuff, mostly not a lot of dialogue. I realize the bolex is supposed to be loud. Think music videos, yet not a music video. I think all my live action stuff would be synced to music, and maybe I could record the dialoque with the music. Haven't quite figured all that out yet. If there's another camera that could double for live action and animation, let me know! Plus, handles better lenses, and doesn't cost a fortune. Of course, better lenses seem to cost a fortune. Which brings me back to renting? How does renting work? These applications scare me! Jay Jay, I would seriously suggest using a video-tapped DSLR for animation, the resolutions are very acceptable. The caveats are that you have to find lenses that are all manual and the auto iris ones cause flicker (removable). Their shutters also break after a while. But this is a zero dollar - low cost - high accuracy (with onion skin type stuff solution for animation (either stop-mo or drawing tables). As far as shooting movies, get something you feel comfortable using. That will be your "good enough". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Alvin Ekarma Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 If you want to see something that saw a theatrical release and was shot not only on R16, but using a wind-up Bolex Rex5 (for most of it; reshoots and added footage were on 35mm-- it's a long story), you should check out the critierion dvd of EQUINOX; the film was put together in the mid 60s by a bunch of folks who went on to do Star Wars, etc. In any case, it looks really, really good. Sharp and crisp and you'd swear it was 35mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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